Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[pacz360]

So once again where does vegito and merged zamasu (purple fap arm) stand in all this
@Zombievito

[TheSaiyanGod]

So if God of Destruction Toppo was also ~ Beerus ~ Super Saiyan Blue Vegito then that would mean that Super Saiyan 2 Kefla would be significantly weaker than Toppo.

But that would also mean that Ultra Instinct Goku as of Episode 110 would also be significantly weaker than Toppo.

However Vegeta is going to beat Toppo and as of yet he has only shown to be as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 which is obviously weaker than Ultra Instinct. Of course he'll do his life risking attack to win however.

Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta > Super Saiyan Blue Vegito > Toppo = Beerus > Super Saiyan 2 Kefla > Ultra Instinct Goku (EP 110)

That doesn't seem right.

Or maybe Vegeta's new form is much stronger than we thought and he has not yet used his full power, or maybe he'll get a power up in that episode

Well it does say it's an attack that risks his life. The episode is called to "Surpass a God" so it would seem like he will do something at the end that will put him above a God of Destruction but he isn't going to be as powerful as Ultra Instinct so does that mean that Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Kefla were above a God of Destruction?

But we do not know if Vegeta will overcome or not the UI.

Toppo rivals the GoDs on this EP, but it was not specifically said that he overcame UI, it's not necessary.
So if Vegeta overcame Toppo, he would also outdo the GoDs

In fact, we do not know the power of UI Goku in comparison to GoDs.
After all, he was able to only rival a suppressed Jiren, and I do not believe that suppressed Jiren is superior to GoDs

[HeroR]

Except that was never said.

The comment was that Kelfa was stronger than Goku back then, the implication being Ultra Instinct Goku hence Piccolo also mentioning about Goku being able to draw out more power in that current fight.

"Back then" is vague and it came from Piccolo who can't even sense god ki.

So once again where does vegito and merged zamasu (purple fap arm) stand in all this
@Zombievito

Wouldn't that depend if you believed Vegetto Blue is closed to Beerus?

[Kenneth La Torre]

I take everything i said about vegito being on beerus level. Toppos feata in this episode were beyond what i though a G.o.D would be capable of doing. I honestly dont know if vegito blue (zamasu arc) would fair hood against toppo, and jiren would rape vegito in my opinion.

[Dragon's Instinct]

I honestly believe 17 is on par with SSB Goku at least 50-60% low balling if he manage to survive a hit from Toppo as G.o.D
Confirmed 17 is stronger than Gohan. Freeza honestly was way too cocky like how he always is. Hope he gets ptsd from this.
I highly doubt he can go back to Golden Freeza form after the ass whooping he has gotten, but than again Freeza is highly
durable so he might get a power up(rage) and might do something that will assist Vegeta into knocking Toppo off the arena.

[ZombieVito]

So once again where does vegito and merged zamasu (purple fap arm) stand in all this
@Zombievito

My personal view is this:

Zeno = Infinite Zamasu > GP > Angels > Jiren > Zeno Attendants > Quitela > Beerus ~ SSB Vegetto ~ Belmod > Merged Zamasu ~ Other GoD's > Toppo > UIO Goku > SS2 Kefla > SSB2 Vegeta ~ SSB KKx20 Goku

The complete Ultra Instinct Goku will probably surpass Quitela, we'll see.

[Dragon's Instinct]

So once again where does vegito and merged zamasu (purple fap arm) stand in all this
@Zombievito

My personal view is this:

Zeno = Infinite Zamasu > GP > Angels > Jiren > Zeno Attendants > Quitela > Beerus ~ SSB Vegetto ~ Belmod > Merged Zamasu ~ Other GoD's > Toppo > UIO Goku > SS2 Kefla > SSB2 Vegeta ~ SSB KKx20 Goku

The complete Ultra Instinct Goku will probably surpass Quitela, we'll see.

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

[Kenneth La Torre]

So once again where does vegito and merged zamasu (purple fap arm) stand in all this
@Zombievito

My personal view is this:

Zeno = Infinite Zamasu > GP > Angels > Jiren > Zeno Attendants > Quitela > Beerus ~ SSB Vegetto ~ Belmod > Merged Zamasu ~ Other GoD's > Toppo > UIO Goku > SS2 Kefla > SSB2 Vegeta ~ SSB KKx20 Goku

The complete Ultra Instinct Goku will probably surpass Quitela, we'll see.

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

About jiren being stronger than beerus, thats an opinion that is likely true at this point. If you cant accept peoples opinion, than thats ypur foult. But infinite zamasu may be even weaker than a god of destruction, as toppo showcased feats that in my opinion wpuld even wipe put infinite Zamasu (a suppressed hakai from toppo literally warped the entire world of void, an infinite realm)

[Kenneth La Torre]

Also, toppo was stated to be no differemt than other G.o.Ds, so he is up there with them, he is at the same realm of power.

[Dragon's Instinct]

My personal view is this:

Zeno = Infinite Zamasu > GP > Angels > Jiren > Zeno Attendants > Quitela > Beerus ~ SSB Vegetto ~ Belmod > Merged Zamasu ~ Other GoD's > Toppo > UIO Goku > SS2 Kefla > SSB2 Vegeta ~ SSB KKx20 Goku

The complete Ultra Instinct Goku will probably surpass Quitela, we'll see.

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

About jiren being stronger than beerus, thats an opinion that is likely true at this point. If you cant accept peoples opinion, than thats ypur foult. But infinite zamasu may be even weaker than a god of destruction, as toppo showcased feats that in my opinion wpuld even wipe put infinite Zamasu (a suppressed hakai from toppo literally warped the entire world of void, an infinite realm)

Nothing has been confirmed to support Jiren is stronger than Beerus. None of the Gods have said anything remotely saying anything implying that Jiren is on another level. I know what about Whis said, but he just said it's possible he may be stronger than a GoD. It's just all speculation. You can't honestly say something as if it's fact. But I digress, it's an opinion that is seemingly presented as a fact, when it is clearly hasn't been confirmed.

[ZombieVito]

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

Infinite Zamasu took over an entire timeline in minutes and began to do the same to the past. He effectively was time traveling with his own power. The guy is just broken. But if it bothers that so much then Zeno is infinity and Infinite Zamasu is infinity -1.

While no power comparison has been made between them, Jiren was said to be stronger than Belmod in the manga and I don't think the GoD's are that far from each other so Jiren could be stronger than Beerus. We shall see.

About jiren being stronger than beerus, thats an opinion that is likely true at this point. If you cant accept peoples opinion, than thats ypur foult. But infinite zamasu may be even weaker than a god of destruction, as toppo showcased feats that in my opinion wpuld even wipe put infinite Zamasu (a suppressed hakai from toppo literally warped the entire world of void, an infinite realm)

The thing is, Hakai energy can't kill Infinite Zamasu.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

About jiren being stronger than beerus, thats an opinion that is likely true at this point. If you cant accept peoples opinion, than thats ypur foult. But infinite zamasu may be even weaker than a god of destruction, as toppo showcased feats that in my opinion wpuld even wipe put infinite Zamasu (a suppressed hakai from toppo literally warped the entire world of void, an infinite realm)

Nothing has been confirmed to support Jiren is stronger than Beerus. None of the Gods have said anything remotely saying anything implying that Jiren is on another level. I know what about Whis said, but he just said it's possible he may be stronger than a GoD. It's just all speculation. You can't honestly say something as if it's fact. But I digress, it's an opinion that is seemingly presented as a fact, when it is clearly hasn't been confirmed.

Your response was useless, As I even said that it is an OPPINION that is LIKELY true. Never did I imply it was true. But one thing that is true, is that toppo was stated to be “no different than a god of destruction, he is just as strong as a real one. And we know toppp is still going to be outshined by jiren in the end. That’s where the “likely true” comes from. Never stated it as fact, so chill.


Btw zombie Vito, Toppos feats > Infinite zamazu. Bending the reality of an entire infinite realm with a simple hakai, that if wanted to, could erase anything from existence (soul included) is far more impressive than merging with a universe that has been stated to have edges.

[ZombieVito]

Hakai energy is useless against Zamasu.

Beerus confirmed he couldn't kill regular immortal Zamasu. Infinite Zamasu is overkill.

Only Zeno can get rid of him.

[Dragon's Instinct]

Are you trolling no is equal to Zeno what makes you think Zamas is equal to him. You're whole scaling does not make sense. Jiren is not stronger than beerus. If you're scaling was correct than Goku and Vegeta would have long died. You're high-balling these characters way too much lmao

Infinite Zamasu took over an entire timeline in minutes and began to do the same to the past. He effectively was time traveling with his own power. The guy is just broken. But if it bothers that so much then Zeno is infinity and Infinite Zamasu is infinity -1.

While no power comparison has been made between them, Jiren was said to be stronger than Belmod in the manga and I don't think the GoD's are that far from each other so Jiren could be stronger than Beerus. We shall see.

I know what you're trying to say. But Zeno can not be equaled is what I'm trying to say. Does not matter the context. Zeno can not be defeated and the only thing equal to him is Zenos from other timelines. The thing about Jiren being stronger than Belmod, it's impossible to say that just because he's stronger(we're not sure if it's slightly or a big gap) that means he's stronger than Beerus, as all the GoDs have different power level. So for the mean time I still feel Jiren can't be stringer than Beerus at best he's almost the same strength. Until Beerus or Whis suggest that Jiren is stronger than Beerus we can't say anything. But anyways we shall see.

[Dragon's Instinct]

Hakai energy is useless against Zamasu.

Beerus confirmed he couldn't kill regular immortal Zamasu. Infinite Zamasu is overkill.

Only Zeno can get rid of him.

I agree

[Dragon's Instinct]

About jiren being stronger than beerus, thats an opinion that is likely true at this point. If you cant accept peoples opinion, than thats ypur foult. But infinite zamasu may be even weaker than a god of destruction, as toppo showcased feats that in my opinion wpuld even wipe put infinite Zamasu (a suppressed hakai from toppo literally warped the entire world of void, an infinite realm)

Nothing has been confirmed to support Jiren is stronger than Beerus. None of the Gods have said anything remotely saying anything implying that Jiren is on another level. I know what about Whis said, but he just said it's possible he may be stronger than a GoD. It's just all speculation. You can't honestly say something as if it's fact. But I digress, it's an opinion that is seemingly presented as a fact, when it is clearly hasn't been confirmed.

Your response was useless, As I even said that it is an OPPINION that is LIKELY true. Never did I imply it was true. But one thing that is true, is that toppo was stated to be “no different than a god of destruction, he is just as strong as a real one. And we know toppp is still going to be outshined by jiren in the end. That’s where the “likely true” comes from. Never stated it as fact, so chill.


Btw zombie Vito, Toppos feats > Infinite zamazu. Bending the reality of an entire infinite realm with a simple hakai, that if wanted to, could erase anything from existence (soul included) is far more impressive than merging with a universe that has been stated to have edges.

Nothing supports you're opinion you're just doing your own head canon. Toppo energy is a GoD, but nothing suggests it being the same level as the other top tier GoDs nevertheless he would be a formidable GoD maybe stronger than Sidra. But nothing has confirmed Jiren being stronger than Beerus. Unless Whis or Beerus says so than nothing confirms you're opinion as in your own words being "Likely true".

[buutenks]

Infinite Zamasu still craps on everyone barring Zeno.

Also, Jiren>GoDs. And the ep which will focus on Goku n Jiren will prove it.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Jiren is stated to be stronger than the God of Destruction that's stronger than Beerus. Jiren is stated to possibly transcend the God of Destruction state as a whole. Beerus does not transcend the God of Destruction state.

Jiren is stronger than Beerus in the story. There is no debate to be had there. The only people saying that Beerus is stronger than Jiren or it isn't confirmed that Jiren is stronger are in denial for whatever reason.

[SupremeKai25]

Infinite Zamasu is the most powerful enemy the Z Fighters have ever faced; because not even a God of Destruction could destroy an immortal being, and so it took the Omni-King himself to descend from the heavens to deal with Zamasu. And, you see, Zamasu was so powerful that even Zen-Oh himself couldn't erase him without erasing the entire Multiverse along with him. For Zamasu's soul had left his flawed body and merged with the very fabric of reality. There is no way people like Jiren and Toppo can destroy Infinite Zamasu, unless they somehow manage to -ERASE- (not simply destroy) the entire Multiverse.

It was actually stated that Fused Zamasu had endless potential, his power had expanded to no end. So if his immortal soul, Infinite Zamasu, had been allowed to spread its twisted energy across all different alternate timelines... who knows just how strong he would have become.

In fact, i'm sad that, upon Vados noting that Jiren 'possessed power that transcends time itself', Goku or Shin didn't make a comment like 'Oh, so he transcends time like Zamasu did?'... since Toei make it sounds like Jiren is the first antagonist that can transcend time and space, even though Infinite Zamasu accomplished the same feat.

[AvatarReiko]

My thoughts on this episode

Looks like Frieza can tank an attack that erases matter.

Toppo stomps Frieza but cannot knock 17 out of the ring. This confirms what I always thought. 17 is in fact SSJB level

Frieza thinks "planet busting" is still impressive lol

The whole "not being able to sense god ki" has been retconned this episode. The characters were able to sense Toppo's GOD ki

So as was said before, Toppo's God of Destruction power isn't something new that didn't exist beforehand. Toppo, Jiren, Belmod and Marcarita knew about it and the latter two trained Toppo in order to use it.

Toppo didn't use the power beforehand, because that would mean throwing away the concept of justice and evil which is important to him.

More important than the erasure of his entire universe, apparently. The characters holding back is making them come off as completely moronic