Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[wolflonnie]

My thoughts on this episode

Looks like Frieza can tank an attack that erases matter.

Toppo stomps Frieza but cannot knock 17 out of the ring. This confirms what I always thought. 17 is in fact SSJB level

Frieza thinks "planet busting" is still impressive lol

The whole "not being able to sense god ki" has been retconned this episode. The characters were able to sense Toppo's GOD ki

So as was said before, Toppo's God of Destruction power isn't something new that didn't exist beforehand. Toppo, Jiren, Belmod and Marcarita knew about it and the latter two trained Toppo in order to use it.

Toppo didn't use the power beforehand, because that would mean throwing away the concept of justice and evil which is important to him.

More important than the erasure of his entire universe, apparently. The characters holding back is making them come off as completely moronic

I don't think that Frieza literally tanked the erasing power, I think Toppo suppressed the attack to some degrees so that he wouldn't kill him (and get disqualified).
Yes Frieza resisted, but very barely. Toppo could've erased him right here and now, if it were any other scenario.

Btw I do think that GoD Toppo is on par with the other GoDs, albeit just mid tier in range.

[buutenks]

Freeza tanked a massive Hakai Ball. Even Toppo was surprised that Freeza was alive. So that was proly meant to kill him. So ye, Freeza is very tough.

[Ki Breaker]

Freeza tanked a massive Hakai Ball. Even Toppo was surprised that Freeza was alive. So that was proly meant to kill him..

Bold move considering he would have been disqualified on the spot..

[Legion]

Wow Episode 125 is so damn Good,
-IMO God Toppo is stronger than Anizara and SSJ2 Kefla combined.

-God Toppo is still a God of destruction Candidate in training, so he is still below the current Hakaishins

-Sidra gave the Dog Assassin "some Hakai Energy", IMO Beerus > Sidra > God Toppo

-God Toppo (10), Beerus (16), Sidra (13), Jiren (15), SSB (6), Frieza (5.5)

Belmod said he is no different from a god of destruction, so he is at the level of current hakaishins. He was candidate before, but as stated in thia episode, he now accepted the power, as it required him to throw away hos sense of justice. So basically universe 11 has two gods of destruction... damn

It doesn't mean that he strong as them. He can't control his power and he doesn’t know anything about UI (contrary to all the present GoDs), which means he never trained to use it. He's strong but is still a novice God. He's weaker than them.

[Pannaliciour]

Seeing the latest episode:

-Why does Freeza think a Blast that can destroy a planet will do something to Toppo? Come on even Goku ssj could tank one.
-Toppo is strong he is GoD level (doesn'nt matter if he is stronger or weaker then Beerus) he is at that level. Does that mean Vegeta is to or above (seeing the preview of episode 126 and the titel?
-If Toppo is that strong and Jiren is above that (above GoD) then either UI (mastered) is strong as hell or Goku is getting again new transformation or Fusion. Or u7 will lose. No fu....g way that they can beat Jiren otherwise.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Pretty straightforward scaling.

Debate it, we might, but one cannot deny that Toppo has ascended to that realm of power, the power of the Hakaishin.

[brett wheeler]

so my take on the episode.
1. toppo is a behemoth now that only vegeta,goku,or ( obliviously ) jiren could handle in a fight( theres a diffrence between beat and handle just so no ones confused ).

2. toppo has to be at the same level as the other hakiashins, atleast the mid tier ones, as even jiren stopped fighting for a moment to acknowledge his power and resolve.

3. frieza I love ya, but couldn't you sense god ki in rof to tell you where stronger than ssb but now you decide not to determine where you stand compared to rioded out toppo really dude

4. lastly with the next episode preview, seems vegeta is able to keep up with this toppo so he is probably low mid tier hakiashin lvl, witch makes sense with him being able to somewhat keep up with jiren

over all great episode and I cant wait to see what toppo can fully do when pushed cant wait for next week.

[Pannaliciour]

so my take on the episode.
1. toppo is a behemoth now that only vegeta,goku,or ( obliviously ) jiren could handle in a fight( theres a diffrence between beat and handle just so no ones confused ).

2. toppo has to be at the same level as the other hakiashins, atleast the mid tier ones, as even jiren stopped fighting for a moment to acknowledge his power and resolve.

3. frieza I love ya, but couldn't you sense god ki in rof to tell you where stronger than ssb but now you decide not to determine where you stand compared to rioded out toppo really dude

4. lastly with the next episode preview, seems vegeta is able to keep up with this toppo so he is probably low mid tier hakiashin lvl, witch makes sense with him being able to somewhat keep up with jiren

over all great episode and I cant wait to see what toppo can fully do when pushed cant wait for next week.

Yeah wtf, did you saw how he was threatening to defeat Toppo with a energy ball that could destroy a planet?

[brett wheeler]

so my take on the episode.
1. toppo is a behemoth now that only vegeta,goku,or ( obliviously ) jiren could handle in a fight( theres a diffrence between beat and handle just so no ones confused ).

2. toppo has to be at the same level as the other hakiashins, atleast the mid tier ones, as even jiren stopped fighting for a moment to acknowledge his power and resolve.

3. frieza I love ya, but couldn't you sense god ki in rof to tell you where stronger than ssb but now you decide not to determine where you stand compared to rioded out toppo really dude

4. lastly with the next episode preview, seems vegeta is able to keep up with this toppo so he is probably low mid tier hakiashin lvl, witch makes sense with him being able to somewhat keep up with jiren

over all great episode and I cant wait to see what toppo can fully do when pushed cant wait for next week.

Yeah wtf, did you saw how he was threatening to defeat Toppo with a energy ball that could destroy a planet?

for real, like frieza you got balls of steel man but come on, if the attack cant at least destroy a few million galaxies than you aint doing shit ( and toppo would have to be extremely suppressed for that to do anything really ). Over all even a namek saga ssj goku can tank a planet busting attack, so how the hell was frieza expecting to hurt a hakiashin with it.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Freeza had just been taken down a notch and wasn't thinking clearly. I think it's perfectly understandable that he severely underestimated just what his attack would do, given his mental state at the time.

[brett wheeler]

Freeza had just been taken down a notch and wasn't thinking clearly. I think it's perfectly understandable that he severely underestimated just what his attack would do, given his mental state at the time.

very likely, I mean if I went from being the ruler of the universe to some rioded out eggmans punching bag in the matter of a second my mental state wouldnt be all to good either.

[Bullza]

"Back then" is vague and it came from Piccolo who can't even sense god ki.

It's not that vague, it can only refer to Ultra Instinct, Super Saiyan Blue or Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken and the latter where used immediately beforehand whereas Ultra Instinct was "back then".

That Ultra Instinct likely doesn't even use God Ki would also lean more to Piccolo referring to that instead of Blue.

[Bullza]

So is right then to say that Toppo (not God of Destruction) is equal to Super Saiyan Blue Goku therefore making it so that Android 17 is somewhat below that level?

If Toppo is high Blue level then perhaps Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan are low/mid level?

Theres been a few things to suggest they aren't quite as high as Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Golden Frieza.

[Zamasu55]

Toppo is as strong as the other Gods of Destruction. End of.

I hate when people underestimate a character even though the show itself, for once, makes a clear statement about their power. It happened with Kefla as well.

Of course Toppo would probably lose to Beerus, he's not as expierenced as him, BUT their power levels are the same.

[SuperHumanGod]

I really enjoyed the scaling in this episode. It makes sense and shows what a great fighter 17 is now.

17 is no match for base toppo, but he knows this and tries to stall for time, but toppo sees this and goes for the finish and it easily pushes 17 back in no time.

golden frieza being our lovable cunt as always, but gets cocky at god toppo, 17 is wary.

frieza tries to tank god toppo destruction and gets smashed. 17 runs, but he runs and thinks.

Based on what I've seen I'd say Gohan is stronger than 17, but 17 would stomp with unlimited energy and being what a smart fighter should be. Even now vs god toppo he's trying to think of a way to win. 17 is likely ssg level in the anime and has unlimited energy and a strategic mind.

vegeta Vs toppo should give us a lot of insight.

[apex_pretador]

My theory:
Toppo didn't get much stronger. He only started using hakai and GoD ki.
He became more durable because of hakai shield. This theory is supported by Freeza sensing him.

[Sora Saiyan]

My theory:
Toppo didn't get much stronger. He only started using hakai and GoD ki.
He became more durable because of hakai shield. This theory is supported by Freeza sensing him.

17 does say something about his attacks being stronger, but I can’t remember if what #17 said made Toppo sound like he improved greatly or only a bit.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

My theory:
Toppo didn't get much stronger. He only started using hakai and GoD ki.
He became more durable because of hakai shield. This theory is supported by Freeza sensing him.

17 said that Toppo's normal ki attacks also got stronger.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

Top 10 fighters in the Tournament of Power

Including multiple versions of the same character:

1. Jiren
2. UIO Goku
3. SS2 Kafla
4. Hakaishin Toppo
5. SS1 Kafla
6-7. SSB KKx20 Goku
6-7. SSB2 Vegeta
8. Anilaza
9. Koichiarator
10. Super Light-Speed Mode Dyspo

Excluding multiple versions of the same character:

1. Jiren
2. UIO Goku
3. SS2 Kafla
4. Hakaishin Toppo
5. SSB2 Vegeta
6. Anilaza
7. Super Light-Speed Mode Dyspo
8. Golden Freeza
9. Gohan
10. Android 17

[HeroR]

"Back then" is vague and it came from Piccolo who can't even sense god ki.

It's not that vague, it can only refer to Ultra Instinct, Super Saiyan Blue or Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken and the latter where used immediately beforehand whereas Ultra Instinct was "back then".

That Ultra Instinct likely doesn't even use God Ki would also lean more to Piccolo referring to that instead of Blue.

It really since stronger than Goku back when?

UI does have god ki since Dokkan has UI Goku as the Realm of the Gods leader and all the god characters are in that category.