"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[GamerSkull]

Freeza being redeemed would be the last straw that breaks the camels back and the one thing that would make me stop watching modern Dragonball shows forever. He is pure evil, killed millions of people and main cast members, and is seen as the main villain of the series.

He is not like Vegeta or Piccolo, and Buu had all the evil expelled out of him into a separate character.

You do know Vegeta was a mass murderer and loved it, right?

It's strange how many people seem to forget that about Vegeta...

Anyway on a more serious note, I hope Freeza isn't redeemed. His story was done on Namek as far as I'm concerned... there's no reason for him to stay in the limelight. It's cool to see him as an ally for an arc (although personally, I'm not too fond of it) but redeeming him overall is a bad idea. Him being brought back to life is another story... but I'd prefer he just return to the dead.

[precita]

Vegeta just killed a bunch of disgusting aliens. The worst he did on-screen was kill that Namek village that they never revived. It was also especially noticeable Toriyama didn't have Vegeta kill any of the main characters, it was Nappa who essentially killed 4 main characters so none of their deaths were on Vegeta's hands.

Besides that Vegeta obviously must have killed some aliens in space while he worked for Freeza, and in the anime we saw him blow up planet Arlia...but they were an ugly disgusting race of bug people so what does it matter? He's not a mass murdering evil murderer like Freeza.

[GamerSkull]

Vegeta just killed a bunch of disgusting aliens. The worst he did on-screen was kill that Namek village that they never revived. It was also especially noticeable Toriyama didn't have Vegeta kill any of the main characters, it was Nappa who essentially killed 4 main characters so none of their deaths were on Vegeta's hands.

Besides that Vegeta obviously must have killed some aliens in space while he worked for Freeza, and in the anime we saw him blow up planet Arlia...but they were an ugly disgusting race of bug people so what does it matter? He's not a mass murdering evil murderer like Freeza.

Of course Vegeta played a part in those deaths... even if Nappa carried them out, he is still responsible for it.

And it does matter LOL, they were innocent beings (for the most part) and an intelligent species.

But I still agree that Freeza shouldn't be redeemed... it just would be way too out there.

[MrBlackFox]

It's not that Frieza has to be evil or good, black or white, yes or no

He could become a GoD in an Universe where they needs one, I see for example U9's Sidra stepping back when revived, letting his place free to a successor, basically being a " grey " but more of a bastard character, without wanting to killer Goku, Vegeta and every saiyan anymore
And U9 is a criminal hole full of shit, Frieza could have fan cleaning all and destroying

Don't forget Goku will paying his promise for sure if Frieza play nice, and I doubt he wants to be erased or drop to Hell again

[GamerSkull]

It's not that Frieza has to be evil or good, black or white, yes or no

He could become a GoD in an Universe where they needs one, I see for example U9's Sidra stepping back when revived, letting his place free to a successor, basically being a " grey " but more of a bastard character, without wanting to killer Goku, Vegeta and every saiyan anymore
And U9 is a criminal hole full of shit, Frieza could have fan cleaning all and destroying

Don't forget Goku will paying his promise for sure if Frieza play nice, and I doubt he wants to be erased or drop to Hell again

I guess that fair but to be honest, I'd rather Freeza have his own special place in Hell for the things he did. I don't want to see him rewarded for doing a few good/neutral deeds when he's largely been an evil person who caused so many atrocities.

It's the reason I don't like where Vegeta's character ended up. That character's death on Namek was fitting and I wish he had stayed that way. It's what he deserved, in my opinion. (and I thought he was far less interesting after that)

[Ki Breaker]

Dunno, them waiting for Freeza to arrive like they did for Goku sounds good..

A redemption arc where Freeza sees Goku get killed by someone else which causes him to erupt in a fit of teary rage and have a change of heart sounds like something modern Dragonball can pull off no problem

[MrBlackFox]

It's not that Frieza has to be evil or good, black or white, yes or no

He could become a GoD in an Universe where they needs one, I see for example U9's Sidra stepping back when revived, letting his place free to a successor, basically being a " grey " but more of a bastard character, without wanting to killer Goku, Vegeta and every saiyan anymore
And U9 is a criminal hole full of shit, Frieza could have fan cleaning all and destroying

Don't forget Goku will paying his promise for sure if Frieza play nice, and I doubt he wants to be erased or drop to Hell again

I guess that fair but to be honest, I'd rather Freeza have his own special place in Hell for the things he did. I don't want to see him rewarded for doing a few good/neutral deeds when he's largely been an evil person who caused so many atrocities.

It's the reason I don't like where Vegeta's character ended up. That character's death on Namek was fitting and I wish he had stayed that way. It's what he deserved, in my opinion. (and I thought he was far less interesting after that)

The fact is Toriyama and Toei think to money more than everything else, and Frieza being around for more after ToP is an easy cash grab, while making him disappear forever makes this impossible
And now they've bring it back again will probably not make the same error of eliminating him

[MrBlackFox]

Oh, I'm also starting to think those leaks may be true, I totally see Frieza furious when Toppo eliminates 17, the Android saved frieza with that rock and permitted him to still dream to win and have a wish, he owe one to 17

[GamerSkull]

It's not that Frieza has to be evil or good, black or white, yes or no

He could become a GoD in an Universe where they needs one, I see for example U9's Sidra stepping back when revived, letting his place free to a successor, basically being a " grey " but more of a bastard character, without wanting to killer Goku, Vegeta and every saiyan anymore
And U9 is a criminal hole full of shit, Frieza could have fan cleaning all and destroying

Don't forget Goku will paying his promise for sure if Frieza play nice, and I doubt he wants to be erased or drop to Hell again

I guess that fair but to be honest, I'd rather Freeza have his own special place in Hell for the things he did. I don't want to see him rewarded for doing a few good/neutral deeds when he's largely been an evil person who caused so many atrocities.

It's the reason I don't like where Vegeta's character ended up. That character's death on Namek was fitting and I wish he had stayed that way. It's what he deserved, in my opinion. (and I thought he was far less interesting after that)

The fact is Toriyama and Toei think to money more than everything else, and Frieza being around for more after ToP is an easy cash grab, while making him disappear forever makes this impossible
And now they've bring it back again will probably not make the same error of eliminating him

You're right about that.

That would definitely be another example where their artistic integrity is brought into question again.

[darzap]

Oh, I'm also starting to think those leaks may be true, I totally see Frieza furious when Toppo eliminates 17, the Android saved frieza with that rock and permitted him to still dream to win and have a wish, he owe one to 17

Yeah, like he owed one to Goku for sparing him and quickly rushed to earth to repay him by murdering his friends. If last episode associated any two properties with him, those would be cruel and delusional.

[Kepiaschkz]

Isn't an interview from Toriyama supposed to be out today in the Weekly Shonen Jump? Maybe we'll get some precisions about Super's future.

[Totamo]

Vegeta just killed a bunch of disgusting aliens. The worst he did on-screen was kill that Namek village that they never revived. It was also especially noticeable Toriyama didn't have Vegeta kill any of the main characters, it was Nappa who essentially killed 4 main characters so none of their deaths were on Vegeta's hands.

Besides that Vegeta obviously must have killed some aliens in space while he worked for Freeza, and in the anime we saw him blow up planet Arlia...but they were an ugly disgusting race of bug people so what does it matter? He's not a mass murdering evil murderer like Freeza.

1. If you really think Vegeta never killed an innocent being as a space pirate, I don't know what to tell you.


2. If you want to play that logic, Nappa only killed one person: Piccolo and thats because he jumped in a blast not meant for him. Yamcha got blown up by a saibamen, Tien died from a kikoho spam and Chiaozu blew himself up.

3. No the worst thing he did on screen was when he killed an entire stand of people just to get Goku to fight him.



Vegeta was literally the lesser of the two evils and would have easily killed everyone on namek had he gotten the dragon balls or super saiyan.

[Ki Breaker]

I wonder if people reacted similarly when Vegeta turned into an ally..
The situations are similar in more than one ways, Freeza's future depends entirely in the hands of Toriyama but taking an educated guess from DB's history, Freeza is getting redeemed sooner or later if he continues to live..

[Mercenary]

I wonder if people reacted similarly when Vegeta turned into an ally..
The situations are similar in more than one ways, Freeza's future depends entirely in the hands of Toriyama but taking an educated guess from DB's history, Freeza is getting redeemed sooner or later if he continues to live..

Frieza won't change his ways. He is evil to the core. Sick sociopath.

Vegeta on the other hand was like that because he was raised in that way (also by Frieza).

I am not saying Vegeta is innocent but he redeemed himself at least several times. What he could possibly do more?


BTW. Piccolo was also evil at the beginning, just reminding, because you folks tend to forget about it.

[Ki Breaker]

I am not saying Vegeta is innocent but he redeemed himself at least several times. What he could possibly do more?

Yeah, that's what the "if he continues to live" comment was for..
The longer he lives the closer he is to redeeming himself, infact he has already started, Toppo was the karma and a lot more is to come as the show goes on..

Until then I patiently wait for the day Vegeta and Freeza squabble to use the gravity room

[Michsi]

I wonder if people reacted similarly when Vegeta turned into an ally..
The situations are similar in more than one ways, Freeza's future depends entirely in the hands of Toriyama but taking an educated guess from DB's history, Freeza is getting redeemed sooner or later if he continues to live..

Frieza won't change his ways. He is evil to the core. Sick sociopath.

Vegeta on the other hand was like that because he was raised in that way (also by Frieza).

I am not saying Vegeta is innocent but he redeemed himself at least several times. What he could possibly do more?


BTW. Piccolo was also evil at the beginning, just reminding, because you folks tend to forget about it.

I'm pretty sure no one ever forgot that Piccolo was one of the bad guys, but the show made it clear that he was never as bad as his father. Since Toriyama said he liked Jr. the moment he designed him and decided to add him to the cast, he probably was careful not to go overboard with the evilness like he did with the original Piccolo.
Vegeta on the other hand, he is introduced as a mass-murderer, prides himself as such on one occasion, and shows little to no regard for others for most of Z. Growing up under Freeza had no bearing on his morality or ideals whatsoever, he would've ended up the same (or maybe even worse) on his home planet.
So technically, Freeza getting a chance at redemption shouldn't be any different than Vegeta's getting one.

The major difference between Vegeta and Freeza is that Freeza's villain status is emblematic to the franchise, and changing that now after 30 years could prove to be disappointing. Vegeta's development happened during Dragon Ball's original run, and though everyone remembers that he used to be evil, he is mostly known for his rival status.

[MrBlackFox]

I guess that fair but to be honest, I'd rather Freeza have his own special place in Hell for the things he did. I don't want to see him rewarded for doing a few good/neutral deeds when he's largely been an evil person who caused so many atrocities.

It's the reason I don't like where Vegeta's character ended up. That character's death on Namek was fitting and I wish he had stayed that way. It's what he deserved, in my opinion. (and I thought he was far less interesting after that)

The fact is Toriyama and Toei think to money more than everything else, and Frieza being around for more after ToP is an easy cash grab, while making him disappear forever makes this impossible
And now they've bring it back again will probably not make the same error of eliminating him

You're right about that.

That would definitely be another example where their artistic integrity is brought into question again.

Aside from that, I think would be one of the biggest wastes to simply let Frieza go after The awesome character building they did with him, same reasons I'm pretty sad for 17 and Gohan who will probably go back to be no ones after ToP
But Frieza is definitely destined to something big, let that poor guy become a God of Destruction

[MrBlackFox]

I don't agree in comparing Piccolo and Vegeta to Frieza
They were evil of course, but nothing like Frieza who's a genocidal crazy tyrant, and a sadist who love to torture his enemies
Though I always believe he could not be so evil anymore, I see him more in a grayish / neutral- rival area than a good guy one

A Vegeta turn for Frieza is impossible and out of character, even in 100 years
It's highly likely he' ll be more mature after this tournament, after all these bad defeats he took from being too cocky, has to learn something for sure

To me, a Cell turning into a good guy could have been more believeable, but Frieza...uhm

[Ki Breaker]

He doesn't need to be Vegeta 2.0
He can have his personality intact albeit a little diluted and still be an ally

[MrBlackFox]

He doesn't need to be Vegeta 2.0
He can have his personality intact albeit a little diluted and still be an ally

Agree

This is why I want him to be a GoD, many of them are evil - not - so - evil and they can wipe things being authorized only to do their job

Perfect role for Frieza