Vegito in the TOP

[GodVegetto91]

Goku doesn't have enough power to beat Jiren....even with Ultra Instinct. Won't be happening.

Quite a bold claim there man, care to back it up with, you know, actual evidence?

Sorry, but the burden of proof doesn't lie with my statement. There is no proof or evidence that UI Goku is that strong. UI Goku is about fast reactions, not raw power. Did you not watch the fights with Jiren or Kefla? If anyone has to prove UI Goku is that strong, it's you. He has showed nothing of the sorts that he is stronger, or even as strong as Jiren.

I am talking about a fully mastered UI Goku, that obviously includes the OFFENSIVE portion of UI, which IS about POWER. That’s the entire reason why Goku wasn’t able to damage Kefla in anyway back then, since he wasn’t able to utilise the offensive side of UI. Now YOU may call it an asspull if Goku does gain an incredible “power boost” from mastering the offensive portion of UI, to the point where he can comfortably damage Jiren with simple strikes and blows alone, i don’t. If Dragon Ball Super has taught us one thing, it’s that “asspulls” are quite common in this show, even when they don’t make any sense. Which is usually the case. However, in this case, it would be totally normal and not surprising in the least for Goku to gain an incredible power up through mastering the offensive side of UI. And there’s nothing “asspullish” about this particular case at all when it does happen.

[Amir]

Quite a bold claim there man, care to back it up with, you know, actual evidence?

Sorry, but the burden of proof doesn't lie with my statement. There is no proof or evidence that UI Goku is that strong. UI Goku is about fast reactions, not raw power. Did you not watch the fights with Jiren or Kefla? If anyone has to prove UI Goku is that strong, it's you. He has showed nothing of the sorts that he is stronger, or even as strong as Jiren.

I am talking about a fully mastered UI Goku, that obviously includes the OFFENSIVE portion of UI, which IS about POWER. That’s the entire reason why Goku wasn’t able to damage Kefla in anyway back then, since he wasn’t able to utilise the offensive side of UI. Now YOU may call it an asspull if Goku does gain an incredible “power boost” from mastering the offensive portion of UI, to the point where he can comfortably damage Jiren with simple strikes and blows alone, i don’t. If Dragon Ball Super has taught us one thing, it’s that “asspulls” are quite common in this show, even when they don’t make any sense. Which is usually the case. However, in this case, it would be totally normal and not surprising in the least for Goku to gain an incredible power up through mastering the offensive side of UI. And there’s nothing “asspullish” about this particular case at all when it does happen.

You basically said it's not an asspull because it hapoens a lot. You gave no argument as to why it wouldn't be an asspull. You literally said: but this time it would be okey because... ?

And you are wrong. Offensive UI is not about power, it's about attacking instinctively without thinking which attack would be the most effective, thus the attacks would be nore effective like Whis said. However it doesn't actually increase your striking power lmao. I

[GodVegetto91]

Sorry, but the burden of proof doesn't lie with my statement. There is no proof or evidence that UI Goku is that strong. UI Goku is about fast reactions, not raw power. Did you not watch the fights with Jiren or Kefla? If anyone has to prove UI Goku is that strong, it's you. He has showed nothing of the sorts that he is stronger, or even as strong as Jiren.

I am talking about a fully mastered UI Goku, that obviously includes the OFFENSIVE portion of UI, which IS about POWER. That’s the entire reason why Goku wasn’t able to damage Kefla in anyway back then, since he wasn’t able to utilise the offensive side of UI. Now YOU may call it an asspull if Goku does gain an incredible “power boost” from mastering the offensive portion of UI, to the point where he can comfortably damage Jiren with simple strikes and blows alone, i don’t. If Dragon Ball Super has taught us one thing, it’s that “asspulls” are quite common in this show, even when they don’t make any sense. Which is usually the case. However, in this case, it would be totally normal and not surprising in the least for Goku to gain an incredible power up through mastering the offensive side of UI. And there’s nothing “asspullish” about this particular case at all when it does happen.

You basically said it's not an asspull because it hapoens a lot. You gave no argument as to why it wouldn't be an asspull. You literally said: but this time it would be okey because... ?

And you are wrong. Offensive UI is not about power, it's about attacking instinctively without thinking which attack would be the most effective, thus the attacks would be nore effective like Whis said. However it doesn't actually increase your striking power lmao. I

You are wrong here. First of all, Goku managing to hurt Jiren with simple strikes alone after mastering the offensive side of UI, is NOT an asspull. I never said that. That was your own flawed interpretation of it. Secondly, the offensive side of Ultra Instinct IS about power, as is clearly implied in the battle against Kefla by stating that Goku’s attacks at his current state weren’t able to DAMAGE her in anyway. Now what does this imply? It implies that his attacks aren’t “STRONG” enough. The obvious implication here is that once Goku does master the offensive side of UI, he can attack much harder, more efficient, AND with a lot more POWER behind it. It’s pretty straightforward and clear.

[Nero<>Akira]

u7 can't win. so all this Goku needs to win by himself is bullshit. Jiren is not losing to UI whatsoever. Goku hasn't even been at full power since he first fought Jiren. he's been considerably weaker than when he used the Spirit Bomb as an energy source. Vegeta just got God Level 3 and his final flash is being eyed away by Jiren who hasn't broken so much as a sweat and is still barely trying. They cannot win. One of the core themes in Super and since BOG is needing others to help you reach your goals without always being dependent on them. it's not about just doing it yourself. there's nothing wrong if Vegeta and Goku willingly with no hesitation ask for the earrings and fuse. There's 6 minutes and no doubt Vejito would last all of that time. there's 4 u7 fighters and 2 u11. Even if they fuse, they still have the number advantage. I don't see it happening, but it should honestly. Like, why not? But since Whis said no, they won't do it cause he's the master of all masters. Unless, someone restores Goku's power to its maximum, it's the only way to win besides keeping their numbers higher.

[ToshioWrites]

Episode 130 : UI Sparkly Blue KKx20 will defeat Jiren. I'd rather potara lead to their victory than another out of nowhere power boost

[MajinVegetaPD]

u7 can't win. so all this Goku needs to win by himself is bullshit. Jiren is not losing to UI whatsoever. Goku hasn't even been at full power since he first fought Jiren. he's been considerably weaker than when he used the Spirit Bomb as an energy source. Vegeta just got God Level 3 and his final flash is being eyed away by Jiren who hasn't broken so much as a sweat and is still barely trying. They cannot win. One of the core themes in Super and since BOG is needing others to help you reach your goals without always being dependent on them. it's not about just doing it yourself. there's nothing wrong if Vegeta and Goku willingly with no hesitation ask for the earrings and fuse. There's 6 minutes and no doubt Vejito would last all of that time. there's 4 u7 fighters and 2 u11. Even if they fuse, they still have the number advantage. I don't see it happening, but it should honestly. Like, why not? But since Whis said no, they won't do it cause he's the master of all masters. Unless, someone restores Goku's power to its maximum, it's the only way to win besides keeping their numbers higher.

This x100. There's no logical way for u7 to win other than a fusion, a gang up on Jiren by a UI Goku AND whatever they are giving Vegeta after ep. 126, or a time up with more u7 members remaining than u11. There is no way a single person is gonna beat Jiren, even superman John Cena aka Goku.

[Amir]

I am talking about a fully mastered UI Goku, that obviously includes the OFFENSIVE portion of UI, which IS about POWER. That’s the entire reason why Goku wasn’t able to damage Kefla in anyway back then, since he wasn’t able to utilise the offensive side of UI. Now YOU may call it an asspull if Goku does gain an incredible “power boost” from mastering the offensive portion of UI, to the point where he can comfortably damage Jiren with simple strikes and blows alone, i don’t. If Dragon Ball Super has taught us one thing, it’s that “asspulls” are quite common in this show, even when they don’t make any sense. Which is usually the case. However, in this case, it would be totally normal and not surprising in the least for Goku to gain an incredible power up through mastering the offensive side of UI. And there’s nothing “asspullish” about this particular case at all when it does happen.

You basically said it's not an asspull because it hapoens a lot. You gave no argument as to why it wouldn't be an asspull. You literally said: but this time it would be okey because... ?

And you are wrong. Offensive UI is not about power, it's about attacking instinctively without thinking which attack would be the most effective, thus the attacks would be nore effective like Whis said. However it doesn't actually increase your striking power lmao. I

You are wrong here. First of all, Goku managing to hurt Jiren with simple strikes alone after mastering the offensive side of UI, is NOT an asspull. I never said that. That was your own flawed interpretation of it. Secondly, the offensive side of Ultra Instinct IS about power, as is clearly implied in the battle against Kefla by stating that Goku’s attacks at his current state weren’t able to DAMAGE her in anyway. Now what does this imply? It implies that his attacks aren’t “STRONG” enough. The obvious implication here is that once Goku does master the offensive side of UI, he can attack much harder, more efficient, AND with a lot more POWER behind it. It’s pretty straightforward and clear.

I just meant Goku mastering it in the first place would be an asspull, if that's not what you meant then I apologize and it's irrelevant.

No it is not. Whis clearly said that the reason Goku's attack were inadequate was because he still THINKS of which attack would be the most effective, thus he doesn't use his instincts to attack but only to dodge and defend. That's not about power. I know it doesn't make much sense that this alone would be the reason Goku couldn't damage Kefla but that's what the concept was and you can't argue against it. Whis never mentioned Goku was too weak, he talked about how he attacks. It has nothing to do with power.
It doesn't even make sense logically that attacking instinctively would make your power higher. Ultra Instinct is all about instincts, and if Goku manages to attack without thinking, how can this possibly make him stronger? It would only make his attacks more effective. Logically it's the only thing that makes sense and the only thing that the show stated about it.

[SoulSurj]

I honestly don't think they'll have Goku win the fight against Jiren. That would be really stupid since Goku would have to master UI in the first 30 minutes he got the form, while Beerus spent years training with Whis and still didn't master it. I feel like time will run out and universe 7 will have more fighters on stage. Frieza is still there but he's unconscious and Vegeta is about to fight Toppo, so if the two knock each other out Goku and Frieza would still be around and win. I know that's a pretty anti-climactic ending but Goku hasn't really won a single major fight on his own, in the entirety of Super, and all of the endings up to this point have pretty much been boring anyway.

[Lord Frieza]

Vegito would be no guaranty of victory. Outside of movie 8, Fusion has failed to make a true difference every single time.

Gotenks's fusion ran out agenst Buu, Buu absorbed him after refusion and then also let Buu down to. Not to mention his personally really is not suited a life and death battle with a time limit.

Vegito's fusion was deactivated inside Buu and then defused right in the middle of a pivotal battle. A very competent fusion who always seems to have the rug pulled out from under him just at the last second.

SS4 Gogeta likewise defused at a critical moment. This version of Gogeta, like Gotenks, really dose not have a good personality for serius battles.

Kefla failed to beat Goku. Had the rotten luck of going up agenst something even more broken then fusion.

SS Gogeta is the only heroic fusion to really achive anything of consequence.

Even though he lost in the end, Merged Zamasu was able to at least make sure the heroes only got a token, hollow victory.

So as it stands, only 2 out of 7 fusions have ever really done anything that mattered.

[Xeogran]

Well it was a part of Vegetto's plan to get inside Buu and take everyonr outside.

[AnimeNation101]

Goku doesn't have enough power to beat Jiren....even with Ultra Instinct. Won't be happening.

Well obviously he would end up having to gain enough power upon mastering ultra instinct.

I doubt it.

Ssj3 failed
Ssg failed
Ssb got beat down
Ssb KKx10 failed
MUI will probably do the same

Goku getting Mastered UI is an asspull. I’m not saying i won’t enjoy it but it’d say that MUI would be the biggest asspull of Dragon Ball.

Getting ssj forms with no training that took years for some is nothing compared to obtaining an ability in under 10 years of training with an Angel that Gods that have trained for millions of years or at least hundreds of thousands of years under an Angel still can’t do is bunk. Mastering that ability in under 24 minutes is even worse

I’d be open for Fusion or running out the clock as long as no one masters UI.