"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheOtherDude]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

I wouldn’t take anything they say on there at face value. They’ve shown they’re willing to lie (bend statements) for the sake of suspense.

For example the “reveal of Jiren” being more powerful than his God of Destruction. It made no since for him to be so concerned about how Toppo performed against Goku knowing someone like Jiren was in his universe. Toppo had to tell Vermoud that his friend Jiren would be able to handle anything he can’t. Anybody who was watching in detail should have been able to come to the conclusion that Jiren and Vermoud didn’t seem to know each other personally at the time. So how could he be the mortal stronger than his God of Destruction that Whis mentioned?

There was definitely some deceit involved. Very very poorly executed to the point where it came across as lying. The point is, don’t take what they say as concrete.

[MrBlackFox]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

That could be an interesting plot, but I think it's a throw-away line because Dragon Ball is not that subtle. If that was meant to be foreshadowing, they would have at least some character like Piccolo turn his head and have an inner monologue like "What does he mean... ...a being who will never lose?" backed by some mystery-announcing background music.

I hope in a twist like that until Super ends, who knows!

[MrBlackFox]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

I wouldn’t take anything they say on there at face value. They’ve shown they’re willing to lie (bend statements) for the sake of suspense.

For example the “reveal of Jiren” being more powerful than his God of Destruction. It made no since for him to be so concerned about how Toppo performed against Goku knowing someone like Jiren was in his universe. Toppo had to tell Vermoud that his friend Jiren would be able to handle anything he can’t. Anybody who was watching in detail should have been able to come to the conclusion that Jiren and Vermoud didn’t seem to know each other personally at the time. So how could he be the mortal stronger than his God of Destruction that Whis mentioned?

There was definitely some deceit involved. Very very poorly executed to the point where it came across as lying. The point is, don’t take what they say as concrete.

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

[Dbzfan94]

Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

Exactly. This right here is my biggest complaint of the ToP.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

I wouldn’t take anything they say on there at face value. They’ve shown they’re willing to lie (bend statements) for the sake of suspense.

For example the “reveal of Jiren” being more powerful than his God of Destruction. It made no since for him to be so concerned about how Toppo performed against Goku knowing someone like Jiren was in his universe. Toppo had to tell Vermoud that his friend Jiren would be able to handle anything he can’t. Anybody who was watching in detail should have been able to come to the conclusion that Jiren and Vermoud didn’t seem to know each other personally at the time. So how could he be the mortal stronger than his God of Destruction that Whis mentioned?

There was definitely some deceit involved. Very very poorly executed to the point where it came across as lying. The point is, don’t take what they say as concrete.

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

[MrBlackFox]

i

I wouldn’t take anything they say on there at face value. They’ve shown they’re willing to lie (bend statements) for the sake of suspense.

For example the “reveal of Jiren” being more powerful than his God of Destruction. It made no since for him to be so concerned about how Toppo performed against Goku knowing someone like Jiren was in his universe. Toppo had to tell Vermoud that his friend Jiren would be able to handle anything he can’t. Anybody who was watching in detail should have been able to come to the conclusion that Jiren and Vermoud didn’t seem to know each other personally at the time. So how could he be the mortal stronger than his God of Destruction that Whis mentioned?

There was definitely some deceit involved. Very very poorly executed to the point where it came across as lying. The point is, don’t take what they say as concrete.

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

Because there's a contradiction between manga and anime
In the anime, Whis says there's a mortal that not even a God can defeat, and Beerus lost in an arm wrestling match with the GoD of the mortal's universe
In the manga, on the other hand, there's no mention of this mortal, but is openly stated that the GoD is Quitela from u4
Probably an error, but...

Same reason why many people were expecting a surprise from universe 4, who ended up eliminated like fodder instead, without any bang

[TheOtherDude]

I wouldn’t take anything they say on there at face value. They’ve shown they’re willing to lie (bend statements) for the sake of suspense.

For example the “reveal of Jiren” being more powerful than his God of Destruction. It made no since for him to be so concerned about how Toppo performed against Goku knowing someone like Jiren was in his universe. Toppo had to tell Vermoud that his friend Jiren would be able to handle anything he can’t. Anybody who was watching in detail should have been able to come to the conclusion that Jiren and Vermoud didn’t seem to know each other personally at the time. So how could he be the mortal stronger than his God of Destruction that Whis mentioned?

There was definitely some deceit involved. Very very poorly executed to the point where it came across as lying. The point is, don’t take what they say as concrete.

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

If you honestly read the posts, you’d know nobody was arguing here. It was used as an example.

I almost forgot that you said you don’t like to read “long” posts, so I’m not surprised you had no idea what you were talking about.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

Exactly. This right here is my biggest complaint of the ToP.

I concur. Bad thing they said it was a "battle royale". Good thing they called it "Tournament of Power", because It felt like more of a tournament with elements of a battle royale rather than an actual battle royale.

[Raphael_Z]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

That could be an interesting plot, but I think it's a throw-away line because Dragon Ball is not that subtle. If that was meant to be foreshadowing, they would have at least some character like Piccolo turn his head and have an inner monologue like "What does he mean... ...a being who will never lose?" backed by some mystery-announcing background music.

Well Toppo and Dyspo literally stood around for like what 10 episodes?

Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

I think that the final trio of U11 played it extremely smart: they don't NEED to eliminate other universes, they just need to be the last ones remaining. Basically stalling for time, saving energies and letting the other universes exhaust themselves.

That was basically the original plan of Gohan at the start of the tournament until Vegeta, Goku, Freezer, A17 and A18 decided to ignore him and actively seek out fights against the other universes.

17 had the right idea in stalling Toppo for time and it would have probably worked if Freezer didn't anger Toppo triggering his GoD transformation. U7 has the upper hand already, they just need to stall for time instead of risking elimination with all-out attacks that leave them open.

[Kenneth La Torre]

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

If you honestly read the posts, you’d know nobody was arguing here. It was used as an example.

I almost forgot that you said you don’t like to read “long” posts, so I’m not surprised you had no idea what you were talking about.

Its not that I don’t like reading long posts, it’s that I didn’t read your post, i was responding to the person responding to you

[Kenneth La Torre]

i

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

Because there's a contradiction between manga and anime
In the anime, Whis says there's a mortal that not even a God can defeat, and Beerus lost in an arm wrestling match with the GoD of the mortal's universe
In the manga, on the other hand, there's no mention of this mortal, but is openly stated that the GoD is Quitela from u4
Probably an error, but...

Same reason why many people were expecting a surprise from universe 4, who ended up eliminated like fodder instead, without any bang

I guess the error was either whis mentioning a god who beat beerus in arm wrestling, or toyotaro didn’t know who the god was. But u4 sure was a disappointment.


Sorry for double posting, but for some reason I can’t edit my posts. Idk why.

[TheOtherDude]

i

You just made me remember something interesting, in the manga, is openly stated the GoD who won over Beerus in an arm wrestling match is the mouse, and we know the strongest mortal is in that GoD universe

No, the strongest mortal was jiren, how the hell are people still arguing this after it’s been stated for months.

As for jiren being a being who will never lose, they probably meant that besides the angel and Zen’o, who can’t lose to anyone else, hakaishin included. I doubt it has to do with a curse or something like that, it’s just that the dude is unbelievably powerful

Because there's a contradiction between manga and anime
In the anime, Whis says there's a mortal that not even a God can defeat, and Beerus lost in an arm wrestling match with the GoD of the mortal's universe
In the manga, on the other hand, there's no mention of this mortal, but is openly stated that the GoD is Quitela from u4
Probably an error, but...

Same reason why many people were expecting a surprise from universe 4, who ended up eliminated like fodder instead, without any bang

I personally never thought the mortal was from U4. I thought it was an antagonist in the future arc. The manga and anime are different so I wouldn’t of assumed that the mortal resides there.

[Dbzfan94]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

That could be an interesting plot, but I think it's a throw-away line because Dragon Ball is not that subtle. If that was meant to be foreshadowing, they would have at least some character like Piccolo turn his head and have an inner monologue like "What does he mean... ...a being who will never lose?" backed by some mystery-announcing background music.

Well Toppo and Dyspo literally stood around for like what 10 episodes?

Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

I think that the final trio of U11 played it extremely smart: they don't NEED to eliminate other universes, they just need to be the last ones remaining. Basically stalling for time, saving energies and letting the other universes exhaust themselves.

That was basically the original plan of Gohan at the start of the tournament until Vegeta, Goku, Freezer, A17 and A18 decided to ignore him and actively seek out fights against the other universes.

17 had the right idea in stalling Toppo for time and it would have probably worked if Freezer didn't anger Toppo triggering his GoD transformation. U7 has the upper hand already, they just need to stall for time instead of risking elimination with all-out attacks that leave them open.

I agree but playing it smart doesn’t mean it was interesting. Let’s be honest Jiren Dyspo and Toppo could have swept the entire ToP by themselves

[Totamo]

That could be an interesting plot, but I think it's a throw-away line because Dragon Ball is not that subtle. If that was meant to be foreshadowing, they would have at least some character like Piccolo turn his head and have an inner monologue like "What does he mean... ...a being who will never lose?" backed by some mystery-announcing background music.



Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

I think that the final trio of U11 played it extremely smart: they don't NEED to eliminate other universes, they just need to be the last ones remaining. Basically stalling for time, saving energies and letting the other universes exhaust themselves.

That was basically the original plan of Gohan at the start of the tournament until Vegeta, Goku, Freezer, A17 and A18 decided to ignore him and actively seek out fights against the other universes.

17 had the right idea in stalling Toppo for time and it would have probably worked if Freezer didn't anger Toppo triggering his GoD transformation. U7 has the upper hand already, they just need to stall for time instead of risking elimination with all-out attacks that leave them open.

I agree but playing it smart doesn’t mean it was interesting. Let’s be honest Jiren Dyspo and Toppo could have swept the entire ToP by themselves

Dragon ball characters aren't intelligent after Dragon Ball. Raditz could have killed everyone if he was smart. Nappa could have killed everyone if he was smart. Vegeta could have killed everyone if he was smart. Zarbon could have killed everyone if he was smart. Every member of the Ginyu force could have killed everyone if he was smart. Freeza could have killed everyone if he was smart. Cell could have been killed by at least 4 people if they were smart. Buu could have been killed by every member of the Son family if they were smart.



So I get why you would feel that way.

[TheOtherDude]

Aside from fan theories, a thing that made me always think was Vermoud's quote " Jiren is a being who will never lose, no matter who he's up against" like he CAN'T be beaten, not only because of his power but with another trick/curse /wish or something else

That could be an interesting plot, but I think it's a throw-away line because Dragon Ball is not that subtle. If that was meant to be foreshadowing, they would have at least some character like Piccolo turn his head and have an inner monologue like "What does he mean... ...a being who will never lose?" backed by some mystery-announcing background music.

Well Toppo and Dyspo literally stood around for like what 10 episodes?

Yeah, that's a complaint that will probably be voiced more often when people review the ToP as a whole. They made it a battle royal, so things should happen in parallel. The pictures on screen tried to convey this a little bit by occasionally showing that some other fights are happening at the same time, but the writing was done the same way previous tournaments were written: sequentially. A sequence of new enemies presented to have them eliminated by the main cast. Why, for example, do Goku and Vegeta eliminate an entire universe right in the beginning? Those two would get plenty of glory later. We could have seen Dyspo bolt in superspeed between three from the Trio of Dangers, throwing them all out, before they knew what hit them. That would have a long way to establish him and his superspeed as a serious threat and it also would have cut away from U7 and enhanced the feeling of a battle royal with more stuff going on than whatever the main cast is up to.

Vegeta and Goku eliminated an entire universe because they came after them. They wanted revenge for that embarrassing defeat in the exhibition match.

If it wasn’t for their pride, they wouldn’t of gotten a piece of humble pie from Goku and Vegeta.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Episode 127 spoiler is out.
[spoiler]Looks like 17 and Vegeta stay. No mention of Toppo or Freeza, however.[/spoiler]

[Professor Freeza]

GoD Toppo with 0 Eliminations. Basil with 1 Elimination. Imagine that



I dont think Freeza is eliminated though

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

GoD Toppo with 0 Eliminations. Basil with 1 Elimination. Imagine that



I dont think Freeza is eliminated though

Either way, if we're reading this right, our boy Vegeta hopefully gets the job done.

[Jigurashi]

GoD Toppo likely done with in 1 1/2 episodes sounds lame to me but at the same time, the final battle with Jiren likely being 4 episodes from 127-130 I can totally see.

[buutenks]

GoD Toppo with 0 Eliminations. Basil with 1 Elimination. Imagine that



I dont think Freeza is eliminated though

To early to say.

On the other hand for the love of God, please no Vegetto. Have a final fight between UI Goku n Jiren.

If Vegetto by any chance does make an appearance, they better have him defeat Jiren, not some BS like he defuses before he can finish Jiren and uni7 wins because they are 2 n uni11 only 1 and time ran out.

Oh and I think Freeza is out. Remember, Gohan was not mentioned in ep 125. So Toppo proly eliminates Freeza.