Pirating Dragon Ball (discussion)

[Android 21]

Ya I had heard Crunchyroll does it for free. I should probably start using that just out of principle. As irritating as the show can be sometimes, I don’t want to watch it illegitimately just to spite Toei.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Ya I had heard Crunchyroll does it for free. I should probably start using that just out of principle. As irritating as the show can be sometimes, I don’t want to watch it illegitimately just to spite Toei.

That is a very poor attitude to have taken in the first place.

The other thing that people don't take into account when illegally streaming is that site is getting ad rev from content that isn't theirs, if you really wanna be that person and not support Toei then one shouldn't support someone else.

Then this hate watching of DBS I do not understand. You either like something to continue watching it but to continue to watch it and not support Toei is dumb, you obviously must enjoy something regardless of what you tell yourself. If there is a food or snack you don't like you don't go out to the shops to buy or in this case "steal" it every week and eat it would you?

[Android 21]

Ya I had heard Crunchyroll does it for free. I should probably start using that just out of principle. As irritating as the show can be sometimes, I don’t want to watch it illegitimately just to spite Toei.

That is a very poor attitude to have taken in the first place.

The other thing that people don't take into account when illegally streaming is that site is getting ad rev from content that isn't theirs, if you really wanna be that person and not support Toei then one shouldn't support someone else.

Then this hate watching of DBS I do not understand. You either like something to continue watching it but to continue to watch it and not support Toei is dumb, you obviously must enjoy something regardless of what you tell yourself. If there is a food or snack you don't like you don't go out to the shops to buy or in this case "steal" it every week and eat it would you?

I enjoy it enough to watch it despite how bad it is. I don’t enjoy it enough to pay for it. To be frank, I don’t see it as stealing on my part. Those websites gaining ad rev are the ones stealing. I don’t care about any technicalities or the such. I really have no sympathy for a multi-million dollar company losing out on some ad money, either. Especially considering the low amount of money and effort they put into it. If it consistently looked as good as One Punch Man’s best, I’d definitely be willing to pay, even if the writing was still bad. I’d buy the blu-rays and everything. But they have tons of resources at their disposal and 5 arcs in, the show still just barely holds up to Z 20 years later in terms of presentation.

Now, I’m not saying I’m right, but I’d never pay for such a mediocre effort. To your snack analogy, it’s the same thing. I wouldn’t pay for a poorly-made snack I only mildly enjoyed. But if someone offered it to me for free, I’d take it. If I found out it was stolen?...Well, that depends on who they stole it from lol. If it was candy from a baby, I’d pass on it and probably suggest they give it back. If it was from the YouTube CEO Susan, I’d eat it and laugh about it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Ya I had heard Crunchyroll does it for free. I should probably start using that just out of principle. As irritating as the show can be sometimes, I don’t want to watch it illegitimately just to spite Toei.

That is a very poor attitude to have taken in the first place.

The other thing that people don't take into account when illegally streaming is that site is getting ad rev from content that isn't theirs, if you really wanna be that person and not support Toei then one shouldn't support someone else.

Then this hate watching of DBS I do not understand. You either like something to continue watching it but to continue to watch it and not support Toei is dumb, you obviously must enjoy something regardless of what you tell yourself. If there is a food or snack you don't like you don't go out to the shops to buy or in this case "steal" it every week and eat it would you?

I enjoy it enough to watch it despite how bad it is. I don’t enjoy it enough to pay for it. To be frank, I don’t see it as stealing on my part. Those websites gaining ad rev are the ones stealing. I don’t care about any technicalities or the such. I really have no sympathy for a multi-million dollar company losing out on some ad money, either. Especially considering the low amount of money and effort they put into it. If it consistently looked as good as One Punch Man’s best, I’d definitely be willing to pay, even if the writing was still bad. I’d buy the blu-rays and everything. But they have tons of resources at their disposal and 5 arcs in, the show still just barely holds up to Z 20 years later in terms of presentation.

Now, I’m not saying I’m right, but I’d never pay for such a mediocre effort. To your snack analogy, it’s the same thing. I wouldn’t pay for a poorly-made snack I only mildly enjoyed. But if someone offered it to me for free, I’d take it. If I found out it was stolen?...Well, that depends on who they stole it from lol. If it was candy from a baby, I’d pass on it and probably suggest they give it back. If it was from the YouTube CEO Susan, I’d eat it and laugh about it.

You're giving someone the means to steal.

Also OPM expectation is unrealistic. OPM was a one cour show. DBS is on going. You don't expect all TV shows to have GoT HBO production values do you?
Also they are putting effort into it aimators work 6-7 days a week also budget matters very little in anime see these videos:
https://youtu.be/tjXt4Fg9664
https://youtu.be/-4KSiGBzhPY
https://youtu.be/-hHM-8QtmUE

[linkdude20002001]

Yep, they are blurry. They're only zoomed in a bit, but yes, they are indeed zoomed in. It's because the left and right edges of the video they have are black and have dot crawl, which exposes the fact their only video source for Dragon Ball is DigiBeta tapes, which aren't the absolute best thing ever. A kind of similar thing applies to GT too, although the zooming is only by about 4 pixels, since Funimation's GT video master came from an early stage of the video restoration for the Dragon Box scan(Dragon Box, DVD single, DVD "Season").

Still, the point is they're cheap, and they're not that bad. The singles overall have the problem that they're awfully compressed, and unless you're willing to import the Australian singles, or for Dragon Ball, the UK's yellow "Seasons"(Both of which have a fault in the sub track of Dragon Ball episodes 71-73 and 80; the second half of episode 71, the first half of episode 73, and the entirety of episode 72 don't play in Japanese, and episode 80 uses dubtitles), that leaves you with just the US "Seasons", and the US singles.
Ultimately, the choice is yours, though the lower price of the "Seasons" is a pretty big factor here, I imagine.

The credits and title cards are an annoyance, but I believe the credits issue applies to all their releases, and honestly, I consider those to be minor issues, especially in comparison to the fact that all of Funi's releases of Dragon Ball only ever use the first OP/ED animations. And there's nothing you can do about that; the seasons, the singles, and the Australian and UK releases all have this issue too.

Like DB and GT, the singles are very expensive to collect, and rather poorly compressed, in fact the Z DVD singles are almost as bad as the Dragon Boxes in terms of pricing. Sure, the price of the individual DVDs doesn't seem that bad at a glance, but the overall price you end up paying is pretty ridiculous, especially when you consider you're only getting episodes 68 onwards in their uncut form with a Japanese track available, and the singles that cover the Saban run are the worst release of the Saban dub(US DVDs: Blurry, poorly-compressed, censored audio on episodes 1 and 2, most of the next episode previews are missing, the wrong title card is used for episode 1. Australian DVDs: PAL blending, PAL ghosting, censored audio on episodes 1 and 2. Rock The Dragon DVDs: Very blurry, washed-out colours, missing the episode 10 next episode preview, the first two movies are the censored TV edits).
So, aside from collectors' purposes, the Z DVD singles really aren't that good.
And these days, the US Dragon Boxes are impossible to attain. Unless MangaUK does a PAL reprint, the English Dragon Boxes are not worth trying to get.

Kai's "Season" sets are utterly fine. Getting the "Part" sets means the music score suddenly switches over at episode 53. Even if you use the Yamamoto Revival project for episodes 53+, that still leaves the problem that if you're watching in Japanese, the best you can do is get the Yamamoto score up to episode 95, leaving 3 episodes in their Kikuchi form, and if you use the Yamamoto Revival, you'll have to either load the episodes onto your PC, using up an absolute ton of HDD space(50GB per disc, 4 discs per season...), or burn custom discs yourself, which'll require a Blu-Ray burner, and blank Blu-Ray discs(Which aren't cheap!!)...
Ultimately, is Yamamoto's plagiarised score worth the effort? The "Part" sets are overpriced due to how sought-out his score is, and given the plagiarism, and the fact Kikuchi's score isn't even as bad as people make it out to be(Yeah, it's not as good as it was in Z, and it's not as good as Yamamoto's score was in Kai, but it's not bad, necessarily. Still better than Sumitomo's Final Chapters score), I'm not so sure it's worth the fuss.

Oh, okey. The cropping doesn't look bad after all. I couldn't remember. I just knew I couldn't stand to look at it. It was just the blurriness after all. Anyhow, it may be better than their "remaster" of DBZ, but it still looks like one of those nasty "remasters" you find by random YouTubers, not like an official product to be sold on store shelves.

Funimation's DB singles just used creditless versions of the OP and ED, correct? You're right that it's not much better than their English credits, but it at least doesn't add insult to injury like those English credits do. I honestly don't know if it's even legal to not credit any of those people/companies.

What I meant was that I already have those sets: Pioneer/Geneon's DBZ Movie Trilogy boxset, the DBZ DVD singles, the DB "saga" sets, the Dragon Box Z sets, and the Kai "parts". I have the Pioneer release of FUNi's original dub, but I've wanted the Rock the Dragon set since it was announced, but I didn't realize it was so blurry... It's weird how much better Madman's release looks. One more reason for me to like Madman. Ah, but it's PAL, tho... So it'd be all sped up and, I think, in the wrong aspect ratio. That plus the blending and ghosting make it sound possibly not worth it.

As for Kai, I should specify, I only ever bot the first four parts of the "parts" releases. I stopt partially due to the removal of the Yamamoto score (well, technically, it's due to them adding in Majin-Boo music during the Cell arc, and using the wrong themes for characters) and partially due to Funimation no longer caring to dub Kai in a way that made it close to the Japanese. I heard they started rewriting the dialogue a lot more frequently to make it "better", and started using their old attack names again. But on top of that, they made Trunks sound like Vegeta (and he WAS one of the few voices I liked in their dub of DBZ), and like with Gokuh, Chichi, the Ox King, Yajirove, and Gohan, they failed to keep Trunks' unique way of speaking: his politeness that exceeds even Gohan's. I don't watch Kai in Japanese (I'd rather watch DBZ), so Kai's only purpose for me is to watch "DBZ" in English.

Altho I might end up pirating specific releases, I do make sure I own it in some legitimate form. I own all of DB, and DBZ I own TWICE over. I'll end up with a copy of the Japanese Dragon Box for the original Dragon Ball eventually, as well as Dragon Box the Movies. ...But when I do, I'll probably end up downloading it too (but with subtitles added). I mean, if I own the audio and video on one disc, and the subtitles on another disc, I don't see why not. Why not make use of some wonderful person's subtitle timing (and translation of the NEPs)? I certainly don't have the time or knowledge to do all that. Unless...is there some way to download just a subtitle track and have it play alongside my DVD without having to rip it? That'd be cool. I mean, I'd rather watch it from the expensive boxset I purchased.

[Anime Kitten]

To be frank, I don’t see it as stealing on my part. Those websites gaining ad rev are the ones stealing. I don’t care about any technicalities or the such. I really have no sympathy for a multi-million dollar company losing out on some ad money, either.

I know I'm taking this a bit out of context, but if you're taking part in pirating the series via a website that illegally gains ad revenue, you're still responsible for taking part in that. It's like how getaway drivers are still responsible for the crime that was committed because they played a part in it, even if they weren't the ones who, say, stole something directly. That's how I see it, at least.

[Luso Saiyan]

To be frank, I don’t see it as stealing on my part.

But it is. You're knowingly and consciously acessing content that you don't have any legitimacy to. Those who provide the content illegally are also stealing. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Android 21]

To be frank, I don’t see it as stealing on my part.

But it is. You're knowingly and consciously acessing content that you don't have any legitimacy to. Those who provide the content illegally are also stealing. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I’m accessing the website that provides the content, yes. The mere act of me knowingly viewing pirated content is considered stealing. But like I said, I don’t care about their technicalities.

You guys might think I should feel bad about it, but I really don’t. I might if they put effort into it. Toei is not some small animation studio that puts their heart and soul into their work and struggles to get by regardless. They’re a greedy, multi-million dollar company that does whatever they can to cut corners and save a buck on the content they produce. And before someone says it, yes, cutting some corners is smart for a business to do, and it’s to be expected, but not at the expense of a great deal of quality. I feel bad for the animators and writers that have to deal with that slaver’s schedule.

I reiterate that I’m not claiming to be in the right. But there’s simply nothing you guys can say that would ever make me feel even an iota of guilt over not supporting Toei Animation. Since Crunchyroll streams for free, I’ll watch that, since I’m not a spiteful person. But there’s no way in hell I’d ever pay even a monthly fee to watch something like Dragon Ball Super. I pay for quality. If there was only a paid option, I’d still be watching the pirated streams. I say again, as a long time Dragon Ball fan, I enjoy it enough to watch free, but it’s not good enough for me to pay to see. The right or wrong of this situation is irrelevant to me.

[Luso Saiyan]

I’m accessing the website that provides the content, yes. The mere act of me knowingly viewing pirated content is considered stealing. But like I said, I don’t care about their technicalities.

But you do care, hence why you went to their site.

You guys might think I should feel bad about it, but I really don’t.

Wether you feel bad or not is beside the point. It's still wrong. Legally, morally and in principle.

I might if they put effort into it.

They put enough effort that made you interested in their product.

[Android 21]

I’m accessing the website that provides the content, yes. The mere act of me knowingly viewing pirated content is considered stealing. But like I said, I don’t care about their technicalities.

But you do care, hence why you went to their site.

What are you talking about? I meant I don’t care about the legal technicalities that dictate this as theft.

Wether you feel bad or not is beside the point. It's still wrong. Legally, morally and in principle.

Okay...and? I literally said I don’t care about the right or wrong of it in the post you’re replying to lol. And I said it in the posts before that. I also said I’d be using Crunchyroll to avoid spiting Toei. So if you’re not trying to argue that I should feel bad for my previous illegal actions, then why are we still having this discussion?

They put enough effort that made you interested in their product.

But not enough to pay for it. Again, I literally just said that. Either way, it’s ultimately irrelevant since Crunchyroll provides it for free.

[TheGreatness25]

I feel like the "it's not good enough for me to pay for it" mindset is such a cop-out. You can say that about anything. Literally anything. You could be the biggest fan in the world and say that because once people get something for free, they're not very likely to pay for it. Once people develop the mindset that it's perfectly within their right to just take something for free that other people pay for, the chances of them actually paying for it later on are low. It's such a B.S. subjective standard, that nobody can even argue with it, except to point out how their actions are, in fact, illegal and immoral. Someone steals another's creative work because they want to watch it, but mask it as, "Well it's not good enough for me to pay for." The fact that the person is willing to steal it in the first place is proof that there's a willingness to see it, is proof enough of an interest in it. "It's not good enough for me to pay for" is a super cop-out. I'd respect "The version I like is too expensive for me" a million times more.

While I realize that nobody who pirates the series -- or anything for that matter -- cares about the artist or license holders, please at least acknowledge the fact that it's wrong. Trying to justify it is just silly.

[Android 21]

I feel like the "it's not good enough for me to pay for it" mindset is such a cop-out. You can say that about anything. Literally anything. You could be the biggest fan in the world and say that because once people get something for free, they're not very likely to pay for it. Once people develop the mindset that it's perfectly within their right to just take something for free that other people pay for, the chances of them actually paying for it later on are low. It's such a B.S. subjective standard, that nobody can even argue with it, except to point out how their actions are, in fact, illegal and immoral. Someone steals another's creative work because they want to watch it, but mask it as, "Well it's not good enough for me to pay for." The fact that the person is willing to steal it in the first place is proof that there's a willingness to see it, is proof enough of an interest in it. "It's not good enough for me to pay for" is a super cop-out. I'd respect "The version I like is too expensive for me" a million times more.

While I realize that nobody who pirates the series -- or anything for that matter -- cares about the artist or license holders, please at least acknowledge the fact that it's wrong. Trying to justify it is just silly.

I did acknowledge it and didn’t try to justify anything. Why don’t you actually try reading my posts instead of trying to comment on a conversation you weren’t involved in thinking you could possibly have any valuable input.

[TheGreatness25]

[spoiler]

I feel like the "it's not good enough for me to pay for it" mindset is such a cop-out. You can say that about anything. Literally anything. You could be the biggest fan in the world and say that because once people get something for free, they're not very likely to pay for it. Once people develop the mindset that it's perfectly within their right to just take something for free that other people pay for, the chances of them actually paying for it later on are low. It's such a B.S. subjective standard, that nobody can even argue with it, except to point out how their actions are, in fact, illegal and immoral. Someone steals another's creative work because they want to watch it, but mask it as, "Well it's not good enough for me to pay for." The fact that the person is willing to steal it in the first place is proof that there's a willingness to see it, is proof enough of an interest in it. "It's not good enough for me to pay for" is a super cop-out. I'd respect "The version I like is too expensive for me" a million times more.

While I realize that nobody who pirates the series -- or anything for that matter -- cares about the artist or license holders, please at least acknowledge the fact that it's wrong. Trying to justify it is just silly.

[/spoiler]
I did acknowledge it and didn’t try to justify anything. Why don’t you actually try reading my posts instead of trying to comment on a conversation you weren’t involved in thinking you could possibly have any valuable input.

Why don't you try to read my post instead? Did I name you? I addressed what you said as a general mindset that many people have. I didn't say anything about you personally not acknowledging stealing the product. But thanks for the snarky, attitudinal response. Your defensive answers to others' (including my own) comments show me exactly why you're not even really worth talking to.

[Android 21]

[spoiler]

I feel like the "it's not good enough for me to pay for it" mindset is such a cop-out. You can say that about anything. Literally anything. You could be the biggest fan in the world and say that because once people get something for free, they're not very likely to pay for it. Once people develop the mindset that it's perfectly within their right to just take something for free that other people pay for, the chances of them actually paying for it later on are low. It's such a B.S. subjective standard, that nobody can even argue with it, except to point out how their actions are, in fact, illegal and immoral. Someone steals another's creative work because they want to watch it, but mask it as, "Well it's not good enough for me to pay for." The fact that the person is willing to steal it in the first place is proof that there's a willingness to see it, is proof enough of an interest in it. "It's not good enough for me to pay for" is a super cop-out. I'd respect "The version I like is too expensive for me" a million times more.

While I realize that nobody who pirates the series -- or anything for that matter -- cares about the artist or license holders, please at least acknowledge the fact that it's wrong. Trying to justify it is just silly.

[/spoiler]
I did acknowledge it and didn’t try to justify anything. Why don’t you actually try reading my posts instead of trying to comment on a conversation you weren’t involved in thinking you could possibly have any valuable input.

Why don't you try to read my post instead? Did I name you? I addressed what you said as a general mindset that many people have. I didn't say anything about you personally not acknowledging stealing the product. But thanks for the snarky, attitudinal response. Your defensive answers to others' (including my own) comments show me exactly why you're not even really worth talking to.

Except my posts don’t fit whatever general mindset you’re referring to. You can’t just take a phrase that is clearly referencing what I said specifically and then try to say it’s referring to some other mindset. Anyone that read what you said would assume you’re talking about me specifically, even though I wasn’t addressed.

I wasn’t defensive towards anyone but you. That’s mostly because it irritates me when people throw their two pesos in for a conversation that requires two cents, ignoring the sign that says “USD” only.

...That’s my little analogy...bite me.

[Robo4900]

What I meant was that I already have those sets: Pioneer/Geneon's DBZ Movie Trilogy boxset, the DBZ DVD singles, the DB "saga" sets, the Dragon Box Z sets, and the Kai "parts". I have the Pioneer release of FUNi's original dub, but I've wanted the Rock the Dragon set since it was announced, but I didn't realize it was so blurry... It's weird how much better Madman's release looks. One more reason for me to like Madman. Ah, but it's PAL, tho... So it'd be all sped up and, I think, in the wrong aspect ratio. That plus the blending and ghosting make it sound possibly not worth it.

Ah right.
No, Madman's isn't sped up at all. If it was sped up, that would make it an ideal release, since you could just slow it down 4% and get an excellent version of the show. Unfortuantely, instead of speeding it up, they blended the interlaced fields together to make 60 into 50 to fit the PAL standard; that's why the blending and ghosting are there.
The aspect ratio is fine. I don't know where you got that particular piece of misinformation.

As for Kai, I should specify, I only ever bot the first four parts of the "parts" releases. I stopt partially due to the removal of the Yamamoto score (well, technically, it's due to them adding in Majin-Boo music during the Cell arc, and using the wrong themes for characters) and partially due to Funimation no longer caring to dub Kai in a way that made it close to the Japanese. I heard they started rewriting the dialogue a lot more frequently to make it "better", and started using their old attack names again. But on top of that, they made Trunks sound like Vegeta (and he WAS one of the few voices I liked in their dub of DBZ), and like with Gokuh, Chichi, the Ox King, Yajirove, and Gohan, they failed to keep Trunks' unique way of speaking: his politeness that exceeds even Gohan's. I don't watch Kai in Japanese (I'd rather watch DBZ), so Kai's only purpose for me is to watch "DBZ" in English.

Fair enough. I also have become rather cynical about Funimation's Kai dub. I hope Ocean's is good.

Altho I might end up pirating specific releases, I do make sure I own it in some legitimate form. I own all of DB, and DBZ I own TWICE over. I'll end up with a copy of the Japanese Dragon Box for the original Dragon Ball eventually, as well as Dragon Box the Movies. ...But when I do, I'll probably end up downloading it too (but with subtitles added). I mean, if I own the audio and video on one disc, and the subtitles on another disc, I don't see why not. Why not make use of some wonderful person's subtitle timing (and translation of the NEPs)? I certainly don't have the time or knowledge to do all that. Unless...is there some way to download just a subtitle track and have it play alongside my DVD without having to rip it? That'd be cool. I mean, I'd rather watch it from the expensive boxset I purchased.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think VLC might have a feature where you can sync up extra sub tracks, but I'm not quite sure how that works.

[Luso Saiyan]

What are you talking about? I meant I don’t care about the legal technicalities that dictate this as theft.

The same "legal technicalities" prevent others from taking your stuff and/or be punished if they do. Do you really not care?

Okay...and? I literally said I don’t care about the right or wrong of it in the post you’re replying to lol.

But that's what the thread is about.

But not enough to pay for it.

Nobody said you had to pay for it. It's freely available online. Legally.

[Android 21]

The same "legal technicalities" prevent others from taking your stuff and/or be punished if they do. Do you really not care?

They’re not the same. If someone stole my candy and gave to their friend, I wouldn’t call the friend that consumed it a thief even if he knew it was stolen. He may technically be a thief, but I don’t care for technicalities. I’d place the blame on the person who actually took it.

You might see me as a thief and the law might see me as a thief. I don’t agree with that. However, I’m not saying I’m in the right either.

But that's what the thread is about

This particular conversation was about my personal attitude towards it, not whether it was right or wrong.

Nobody said you had to pay for it. It's freely available online. Legally.

Okay...you’re clearly confused as to what we were talking about, because I mentioned that too. Don’t just jump into a conversation without reading the earlier posts.

[VegettoEX]

"Stealing" is a term that has morphed, been taken out of context, applied to certain things it was never intended to cover, etc.

When you duplicate digital material (which is what a streaming/encoded version of a Dragon Ball episode or manga chapter is), nothing has been removed from its original source. Toei and FUNimation still have their film masters. Some dude in Nowhereville, Indiana still has their DVD. Per the original meaning of the term, nothing has been "stolen".

This is different from "someone stole my car" or "someone stole my apple". In these cases, you no longer have access to your car and you no longer have an apple to eat. The single version of your possession has been taken away from you, with nothing of value left in its place, and without permission granted.

What has happened, however, is technically an illegal act. To begin with, with the exception of a few... uhh, exceptions... breaking or circumventing copyright protection (such as the encryption on a DVD) is illegal under the DMCA in America. For the digital version to exist in the first place, someone had to crack the CSS on that DVD. (Everyone does it, but that's irrelevant to the legal definition of the matter.)

Furthermore, the duplication of that material — which is exactly what you're doing when you download a copy, or even stream a copy (streaming is literally just making a local copy on your hard drive, temporary or otherwise, in order to view it) — is illegal because you don't own the intellectual property rights to said material. You don't own the Dragon Ball franchise, and you have no right to make copies of it at your discretion.

That all being said, copyright is broken and our laws were never equipped to handle modern society. Every single person unknowingly commits acts of copyright infringement every single day.

Here at Kanzenshuu, we take a rather loose stance on copyright, while at the same time trying to find some line of respect for it. We love the Dragon Ball franchise, and don't wish to do it harm. At the same time, we recognize that certain parties actively treat it poorly. At the same time as that same time, we don't just get to make up the legal rules as we go just because we want to.

Basically, everything's fine and dandy to talk about, but we try to keep the most explicit copyright infringement out of our house here. Don't distribute the show, the manga, the games, etc. Don't tell people how to. Don't point them to resources that could help them do so. Don't brag about your 100TB of pirated material; we guarantee that no one cares.

Examples? To back up conversations you're having? To showcase something cool? To help inform someone? Well, we have to break copyright laws to do it, buuuuuuuuuuut what the hell else are you gonna do?

Hopefully that provides a little background from someone who lives and breaths this stuff but is not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, while also providing a little guidance on what we expect of our community members.

(For further reading, I would recommend this "Dragon Ball and Fair Use" thread where I detailed quite a bit more regarding some specific misconceptions that came up.)

[Anonymous Friend]

At the end of the day, pirates know that what they are doing is illegal in whatever country they live in. They feel entitled to something they have no claim to. They make a myriad of excuses as to why they should have it. But when it is all said and done, what they are doing is wrong, and they know it. Whether you take a physical disc of a shelf at a store or download a file without giving the creators their share, it is taking and using what does not belong to you; stealing. Legality of the term itself notwithstanding, you understand the concept. Even if the product is not available in your area.

I'm not telling anyone to stop what they're doing. Just make no mistake about what they're doing. Don't try to fool others, nor fool themselves about.

[rereboy]

But when it is all said and done, what they are doing is wrong, and they know it. Whether you take a physical disc of a shelf at a store or download a file without giving the creators their share, it is taking and using what does not belong to you; stealing. Legality of the term itself notwithstanding, you understand the concept. Even if the product is not available in your area.

Not really. It's a different concept from stealing. What's in question is the right to reproduce a certain product without authorization, or, in other words, something being "open source" or not. There's immediate practical differences between the two concepts as a result, like the correlation between the act in question and actual, demonstrable damage to the company, which is basically a certainty in the first case, but not an automatic consequence in the second case.

Framing the issue under the guise of moral absolutism doesn't help anyone at all, nor does it combat piracy or helps the industry.