Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[amuroray]

By the end of things it looks like Goku and Jiren will be MILES UPON MILES stronger then everyone(that isnt an angel) else to the point that ranking them doesnt matter.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I suppose that is your rank, no?

Oh, no it wasn't. I'm not sure what my rank would be.

We know Vegito is above Zamasu. Goku is above Kefla. Vegeta is above Toppo.

I'd say that (and mainly because of the manga) Zamasu wasn't supposed to be above a God of Destruction but Vegito probably was.meaning that Vegeta and Toppo are also above Zamasu.

Kefla shouldn't​ be nearly as strong as Vegito either. So you'd think Ultra Instinct Goku at least in Episode 110 wouldn't be as strong as Vegito, Vegeta or Toppo either.

But it seems wrong to have Goku below Vegeta. Goku also matched Jiren who should be above Zamasu and Kefla was above that.

Vegito ~ Vegeta
Toppo
Goku
Kefla
Zamasu

Something like that, I dunno. Seems wrong to have Kefla naive Zamasu too.

Answer me this.

If Vegeta is above Toppo then why did he use a suicide attack to beat him?

This attack of Vegeta is not suicidal, not anymore.

Only Piccolo thought that Vegeta had sacrificed himself, but Vegeta never meant to die and did not say goodbye. He just spent all his energy.

And his final attack was able to overcome the final attack of Toppo

[ZombieVito]

It makes 0 sense for him to waste all of his energy if he's stronger...

[MajinVegetaPD]

It makes 0 sense for him to waste all of his energy if he's stronger...

Yes, but if their levels of strength are similar, then it makes sense. Toppo was a problem that needed to be dealt with ASAP.....hence the ultimate attack.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It makes 0 sense for him to waste all of his energy if he's stronger...

It seems they made Vegeta use an attack just to make '' reference '' to the Boo Saga, but during the fight Vegeta was clearly superior.

Or Vegeta simply figured out that he needed to defeat Toppo quickly and so he used everything he had.
In the end, he overcame Toppo and Hakai

[Kenneth La Torre]

It makes 0 sense for him to waste all of his energy if he's stronger...

It doesn’t make any sense, that’s the writers fault to make vegeta use a move like that. The fact is, that vegeta was overwhelming toppo non stop after he received a power up.

[Bullza]

Perhaps Vegeta was stronger than Toppo but it needed something super duper extra special in order to overpower Toppo's Hakai?

He did say that he'd give him an attack he couldn't destroy.

[ZombieVito]

I guess this lowers Toppo a tier on my list.

Vegeta was never stated to reach GoD tier so Toppo is not there as well.

[Hugo Boss]

Perhaps Vegeta was stronger than Toppo but it needed something super duper extra special in order to overpower Toppo's Hakai?

He did say that he'd give him an attack he couldn't destroy.

That's right. Hakai is a high-ranked skill, which works great for offensive and defensive. Perhaps Vegeta had to use an attack that could overwhelm them both. I should definetely raise Toppo's durability in my list.

• Durability..
  Toppo (5) > Vegetto (4) > Kefla (3) > Goku = Vegeta (2) > Zamasu (1)
• Stamina..
  Zamasu (5) > Vegeta (4) > Goku = Toppo (3) > Kefla (2) > Vegetto (1)
• Damage output..
  Vegetto = Vegeta (5) > Kefla (4) > Toppo (3) > Goku (2) > Zamasu (1)
• Movements..
  Goku (5) > Vegetto (4) > Vegeta (3) > Zamasu = Kefla (2) > Toppo (1)
• Battle sense..
  Vegetto (5) > Goku = Vegeta (4) > Toppo (3) > Kefla (2) > Zamasu (1)

I would like to add speed and skills to this list.

• Speed.. This is quite hard to decide. I would say Kefla is the fastest (not counting Dyspo or Jiren) and Zamasu is the slowest.
  Kefla (5) > Goku = Vegetto (4) > Vegeta (3) > Toppo (2) > Zamasu (1)
• Skill.. Ultra Instinct, Hakai and Potara are god level skills.
  Goku (5) > Toppo (4) > Vegetto (3) > Zamasu = Kefla (2) > Vegeta (1)

So, updated list:
Vegetto (26)
Goku (25)
Vegeta (22)
Toppo (21)
Kefla (20)
Zamasu (13)

My original post, for in-depth view.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Perhaps Vegeta was stronger than Toppo but it needed something super duper extra special in order to overpower Toppo's Hakai?

He did say that he'd give him an attack he couldn't destroy.

Yeah. There's also that "Hakai barrier" that Toppo used on EP 125, so I think Vegeta needed something to destroy definitively.

He probably figured Toppo could use an even stronger Hakai and so he used all his power. In the end, not even Hakai was able to overcome all of Vegeta's power

I guess this lowers Toppo a tier on my list.

Vegeta was never stated to reach GoD tier so Toppo is not there as well.

Vermoud said that Toppo was equated to a Hakaishin, so he is definitely Hakaishin tier. Vegeta overcame him, so naturally he is also at that level.

Despite this, I do not believe Vegeta has surpassed Beerus yet, but he is probably comparable to him and may perhaps defeat some GoDs

[ZombieVito]

Doesn't really matter what Belmod said.

Vegeta hasn't been stated to be at GoD tier so Toppo is not there.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Doesn't really matter what Belmod said.

Vegeta hasn't been stated to be at GoD tier so Toppo is not there.

The title of the episode is literally ''surpass even a God'.

And the fact that Toppo, who is Hakaishin tier, has been overtaken by Vegeta, already puts Vegeta automatically on the same level. It is not necessary for Vegeta to be placed at this level because he defeated someone who was already at that level

[Kaiosama]

Vegeta and Toppo are going to end up far weaker than Goku and Jiren by the end of the tournament as proven by spoilers. His new form was a waste of time and should never have been depicted standing next to Goku when his form is FAR inferior.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Doesn't really matter what Belmod said.

Vegeta hasn't been stated to be at GoD tier so Toppo is not there.

Be ignorant. Its not our fault you can’t grasp them at that level.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Personally, I have Toppo around the level of the Hakaishin, with Vegeta right now being a notch below that but still able to defeat such beings if he puts out a limit-breaking attack like the Final Explosion or a highly charged Final Flash.

[Kaiosama]

Doesn't really matter what Belmod said.

Vegeta hasn't been stated to be at GoD tier so Toppo is not there.

Be ignorant. Its not our fault you can’t grasp them at that level.

Actually it's not really clear where Toppo stands compared to the others. He couldn't even control his Hakai energy. He had to keep charging it up when Beerus never had to do that.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Doesn't really matter what Belmod said.

Vegeta hasn't been stated to be at GoD tier so Toppo is not there.

Be ignorant. Its not our fault you can’t grasp them at that level.

Actually it's not really clear where Toppo stands compared to the others. He couldn't even control his Hakai energy. He had to keep charging it up when Beerus never had to do that.

I never compared him to other hakaishins, as that is impossible to do with even the official Hakaishins. Just that he is at that realm of power.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta and Toppo are going to end up far weaker than Goku and Jiren by the end of the tournament as proven by spoilers. His new form was a waste of time and should never have been depicted standing next to Goku when his form is FAR inferior.

No one here is talking about UI Goku and Jiren. Why do you always want to emphasize that Goku will end up stronger? Be more impartial]

And you are very mistaken saying that this transformation was useless.

In fact, just by defeating someone like Toppo, he has done much more than several other transformations in the series. Even UI for the time being only defeated Kefla.
She was definitely important.

Personally, I have Toppo around the level of the Hakaishin, with Vegeta right now being a notch below that but still able to defeat such beings if he puts out a limit-breaking attack like the Final Explosion or a highly charged Final Flash.

Vegeta was dominating Toppo before using the Final Explosion.
Toppo could not hit him and not even hakai worked

[Kaiosama]

"No one here is talking about UI Goku and Jiren. Why do you always want to emphasize that Goku will end up stronger? Be more impartial"


UI Goku and Jiren are the ones who we must scale to now because they are the new standard. Vegeta's new transformation is fodder. Who cares if he can beat Hakaishin candidate when UI and Jiren are far beyond that.

[TheSaiyanGod]

"No one here is talking about UI Goku and Jiren. Why do you always want to emphasize that Goku will end up stronger? Be more impartial"


UI Goku and Jiren are the ones who we must scale to now because they are the new standard. Vegeta's new transformation is fodder. Who cares if he can beat Hakaishin candidate when UI and Jiren are far beyond that.

AND? It does not matter if UI Goku and Jiren are beyond that, this is not the point of the discussion and this does not detract from Vegeta's merit in defeating a HAKAISHIN.
I already explained to you why his new transformation is not "fodder."

SSJ3 and SSG did not defeat any enemies in the series. Vegeta in his new form has already done much more than that. Even UI only defeated Kefla (weaker than Toppo)

Anyway, this is not going to change your mind because you're just so blinded by Goku that it's annoying, there's no way to have a discussion, especially if it's about Goku