Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

[BlueBasilisk]

I don't hate it. I just find it boring as all sin and have no plans of watching it again. One of the biggest issues for me was that the villains all fell flat. Baby was a rehash of Garlic Jr and Cell smashed together, Super 17 was...a thing, and Omega Shenron was both totally non-threatening and lacked any kind of charisma. At least it gave us some okay stuff for video games.

-Namek saga (longest fight in entire anime)
-Android saga beggining
-Otherworld tournament
-Buu saga scenes in hell
-GT
-DBZ Movie 12
-Plan to eradicate saiyans
-RoF movie
-DBS arc (+ current arc)
-Cooler being his brother (2 movies)
-Chilled being his ancestor
-Frost being his clone

For me it's pretty much. He was also just very popular and the most iconic enemy of DBZ.

Frieza has somehow featured in every arc of Dragon Ball Super
-BoG: He was the connecting element that lead Beerus to Goku
-RoF: Obvious
-U6 Tournament: Frost and constant comparisons drawn to Frieza.
-Future Trunks: While not technically part of the story itself, there was the Future Trunks version of RoF and the Mega Milk Ghost Frieza in the forest of illusions.
-ToP: Frieza and Diet Frieza together at last.

[ABED]

ne of the biggest issues for me was that the villains all fell flat. Baby was a rehash of Garlic Jr and Cell smashed together

In what way?

[BlueBasilisk]

ne of the biggest issues for me was that the villains all fell flat. Baby was a rehash of Garlic Jr and Cell smashed together

In what way?

He' a biomechanical organism created in a lab by a bootleg version of Android 20. Goku and co finding his "corpse" in Myuu's lab is very similar to Trunks and Krillin find the Cell embryo in Gero's lab. He then goes on the run from the heroes and, despite being weaker than them, manages to survive encountering the heroes again and starts building power as he develops into his adult form. But then once we find out his backstory we see that he's a revenge-obsessed little creature fuming over an ancient incident that develops a hatred of Goku in particular and comes to Earth while he's away in space, mind controlling all of his friends and family except for a select group of holdout heroes. Thankfully Baby's mind control/Tuffle parasites/whatever he did could be undone with the Sacred Water stored in the Lookout, just like the Black Water Mist. Baby's home planet also drops by near the Earth's orbit for a visit just like the Makyo Star.

[Sani007]

I don't like GT, but it's Dragon Ball, so I can't hate it. Furthermore it's not the worst Dragon Ball production. (DBKai....)

[sunsetshimmer]

He' a biomechanical organism created in a lab by a bootleg version of Android 20. Goku and co finding his "corpse" in Myuu's lab is very similar to Trunks and Krillin find the Cell embryo in Gero's lab. He then goes on the run from the heroes and, despite being weaker than them, manages to survive encountering the heroes again and starts building power as he develops into his adult form. But then once we find out his backstory we see that he's a revenge-obsessed little creature fuming over an ancient incident that develops a hatred of Goku in particular and comes to Earth while he's away in space, mind controlling all of his friends and family except for a select group of holdout heroes. Thankfully Baby's mind control/Tuffle parasites/whatever he did could be undone with the Sacred Water stored in the Lookout, just like the Black Water Mist. Baby's home planet also drops by near the Earth's orbit for a visit just like the Makyo Star.

Say what? Since when Baby was made by Dr Myuu?
The only thing Baby had in common with Cell was appearance of old scientist with the excception that Myuu had nothing to do with Baby's creation and didn't even know that Baby was connected to Tuffles.
There was no villain like Baby before.
And saying that being healed by water is a ripoff is like saying that using senzu beans is a ripoff.
Water works like that so they used it. Simple.

If there was a ripoff in GT, it would be villains coming from hell like in movie 12. Baby saga was no ripoff in any way.

[GamerSkull]

I don't like GT, but it's Dragon Ball, so I can't hate it. Furthermore it's not the worst Dragon Ball production. (DBKai....)

What's wrong with DB Kai? I'm always told that it's better than DBZ since it cuts out the senseless padding. (and has a more accurate dub)

[Dbzk1999]

He' a biomechanical organism created in a lab by a bootleg version of Android 20. Goku and co finding his "corpse" in Myuu's lab is very similar to Trunks and Krillin find the Cell embryo in Gero's lab. He then goes on the run from the heroes and, despite being weaker than them, manages to survive encountering the heroes again and starts building power as he develops into his adult form. But then once we find out his backstory we see that he's a revenge-obsessed little creature fuming over an ancient incident that develops a hatred of Goku in particular and comes to Earth while he's away in space, mind controlling all of his friends and family except for a select group of holdout heroes. Thankfully Baby's mind control/Tuffle parasites/whatever he did could be undone with the Sacred Water stored in the Lookout, just like the Black Water Mist. Baby's home planet also drops by near the Earth's orbit for a visit just like the Makyo Star.

Say what? Since when Baby was made by Dr Myuu?
The only thing Baby had in common with Cell was appearance of old scientist with the excception that Myuu had nothing to do with Baby's creation and didn't even know that Baby was connected to Tuffles.
There was no villain like Baby before.
And saying that being healed by water is a ripoff is like saying that using senzu beans is a ripoff.
Water works like that so they used it. Simple.

If there was a ripoff in GT, it would be villains coming from hell like in movie 12. Baby saga was no ripoff in any way.

Are you serious?

Tuffle that wants vengeance against the saiyans because of their race being destroyed by them in the past. That’s essentially Dr Raichi and Hatchiyack

[BlueBasilisk]

He' a biomechanical organism created in a lab by a bootleg version of Android 20. Goku and co finding his "corpse" in Myuu's lab is very similar to Trunks and Krillin find the Cell embryo in Gero's lab. He then goes on the run from the heroes and, despite being weaker than them, manages to survive encountering the heroes again and starts building power as he develops into his adult form. But then once we find out his backstory we see that he's a revenge-obsessed little creature fuming over an ancient incident that develops a hatred of Goku in particular and comes to Earth while he's away in space, mind controlling all of his friends and family except for a select group of holdout heroes. Thankfully Baby's mind control/Tuffle parasites/whatever he did could be undone with the Sacred Water stored in the Lookout, just like the Black Water Mist. Baby's home planet also drops by near the Earth's orbit for a visit just like the Makyo Star.

Say what? Since when Baby was made by Dr Myuu?
The only thing Baby had in common with Cell was appearance of old scientist with the excception that Myuu had nothing to do with Baby's creation and didn't even know that Baby was connected to Tuffles.
There was no villain like Baby before.
And saying that being healed by water is a ripoff is like saying that using senzu beans is a ripoff.
Water works like that so they used it. Simple.

He wasn't actually created by Myuu but that's the way it's presented before the weird twist that HE somehow created Myuu despite being in an incomplete form and needing an incubator. Baby's whole possession of the Earth thing is a total rehash of the Black Water Mist plot. The Sacred Water is just part of that. The only thing really new Baby had going for him was the ability to infect people with his own body. The concept of a Tuffle villain wanting revenge on the Saiyans had already been done before in Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans.

[ABED]

ne of the biggest issues for me was that the villains all fell flat. Baby was a rehash of Garlic Jr and Cell smashed together

In what way?

He' a biomechanical organism created in a lab by a bootleg version of Android 20. Goku and co finding his "corpse" in Myuu's lab is very similar to Trunks and Krillin find the Cell embryo in Gero's lab. He then goes on the run from the heroes and, despite being weaker than them, manages to survive encountering the heroes again and starts building power as he develops into his adult form. But then once we find out his backstory we see that he's a revenge-obsessed little creature fuming over an ancient incident that develops a hatred of Goku in particular and comes to Earth while he's away in space, mind controlling all of his friends and family except for a select group of holdout heroes. Thankfully Baby's mind control/Tuffle parasites/whatever he did could be undone with the Sacred Water stored in the Lookout, just like the Black Water Mist. Baby's home planet also drops by near the Earth's orbit for a visit just like the Makyo Star.

Baby is a parasite
Trunks finds the lab after devising a plan with Giru. Trunks found out about Gero's lab because Cell's a moron and blabbed like a Bond villain.
The Makyo Star works very differently. It comes into orbit and gives Garlic Jr. more power. New Planet Tsufuru was just a copy of Baby's old homeworld.
It's not a complete rehash. There are similiarities, but enough fundamental differences that I wouldn't call it a rehash any more than I would call Freeza a rehash of Vegeta, which some have claimed. Both villains were pompous and royalty. Both are also after immortality.

Okay, so there are a number of similarities, but that's true of many arcs in DB, especially DBZ where they have very similar structures. Goku is taken out early, the big bad shows himself and the good guys constantly wait for Goku to arrive, Goku arrives and helps save the day, rinse, repeat. I'll take Baby over Garlic Jr. any day.

The concept of a Tuffle villain wanting revenge on the Saiyans had already been done before in Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans.

It's revenge. That's a perfectly valid motivation and you are acting like none of the other villains had similar motivations to each other, but for some reason it's bad that Baby has one of the most understandable motives for any fictional character - the desire for retribution.

[Sani007]

I don't like GT, but it's Dragon Ball, so I can't hate it. Furthermore it's not the worst Dragon Ball production. (DBKai....)

What's wrong with DB Kai? I'm always told that it's better than DBZ since it cuts out the senseless padding. (and has a more accurate dub)

I think it's a huge disrespect for the anime legend. It's just a "Frankenstein-series".
Of course, I watched it from week to week, because that time I didn't even dream of a whole new series. But after DB Super, I think DB Kai was a horrible idea.

[ABED]

I don't like GT, but it's Dragon Ball, so I can't hate it. Furthermore it's not the worst Dragon Ball production. (DBKai....)

What's wrong with DB Kai? I'm always told that it's better than DBZ since it cuts out the senseless padding. (and has a more accurate dub)

I think it's a huge disrespect for the anime legend. It's just a "Frankenstein-series".
Of course, I watched it from week to week, because that time I didn't even dream of a whole new series. But after DB Super, I think DB Kai was a horrible idea.

It is a Frankensteined together show, but instead of simply adding bits together, it took out a lot of material. So the question is whether the MUCH improved pacing and the far better dub are a greater positive than its cobbled together nature. I think the anwer is a resounding "Yes!"

GT is boring and the worst thing a piece of art can be is boring.

[GamerSkull]

I don't like GT, but it's Dragon Ball, so I can't hate it. Furthermore it's not the worst Dragon Ball production. (DBKai....)

What's wrong with DB Kai? I'm always told that it's better than DBZ since it cuts out the senseless padding. (and has a more accurate dub)

I think it's a huge disrespect for the anime legend. It's just a "Frankenstein-series".
Of course, I watched it from week to week, because that time I didn't even dream of a whole new series. But after DB Super, I think DB Kai was a horrible idea.

Because it's an edited down Z? I can understand that perspective but I think it could be best for newcomers and re-watchers who don't necessarily want to sit through the padding.

[GamerSkull]

What's wrong with DB Kai? I'm always told that it's better than DBZ since it cuts out the senseless padding. (and has a more accurate dub)

I think it's a huge disrespect for the anime legend. It's just a "Frankenstein-series".
Of course, I watched it from week to week, because that time I didn't even dream of a whole new series. But after DB Super, I think DB Kai was a horrible idea.

It is a Frankensteined together show, but instead of simply adding bits together, it took out a lot of material. So the question is whether the MUCH improved pacing and the far better dub are a greater positive than its cobbled together nature. I think the anwer is a resounding "Yes!"

GT is boring and the worst thing a piece of art can be is boring.

So are you saying it flows way too fast, even for DB? Or is it that the transitions feel a little weird since they were scenes cut out?

Hmm... well, I've been thinking about watching the Kai version since I liked the original Z so is it worth it? Or should I go back and just re-watch the original?

[ABED]

There are moments that move a little too fast, clearly moments that are kept because some material couldn't be excised so they have to keep some moments for the sake of continuity. Then there are the reanimated images that are clearly not from when it was originally produced.

For the most part, they do a good job with the pacing. Taking stuff out that was put in to pad the episodes does wonders for the flow of the show. There aren't constant cutaways in the middle of the action. Pacing is VITAL to any story, especially in film and TV. In Kai, it's FAR better. I'd say pacing is one of the most important aspects of storytelling.

[GamerSkull]

There are moments that move a little too fast, clearly moments that are kept because some material couldn't be excised so they have to keep some moments for the sake of continuity. Then there are the reanimated images that are clearly not from when it was originally produced.

For the most part, they do a good job with the pacing. Taking stuff out that was put in to pad the episodes does wonders for the flow of the show. There aren't constant cutaways in the middle of the action. Pacing is VITAL to any story, especially in film and TV. In Kai, it's FAR better. I'd say pacing is one of the most important aspects of storytelling.

That's good. I think I can bear with some of that for a better paced and more cohesive story in anime format.

I think I will check Kai out now... especially since I can actually enjoy that dub without fear of it being inaccurate to the original work.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

I don't hate GT, I just wished some characters had more of a role. Like Uub, I feel like he should have had a better fight against Super 17 and some of the dragons. Instead he was tossed to the side, it feels kind of a waste since he was Goku's pupil.

[bleed0range]

With GT we also didn't know how the series would end, creating tension, and truth be told we had some big shocks like the perma-deaths of Piccolo and Majin Buu wih both getting a worthy send off. Goku's end is left ambiguous when the series ends. Did he die? Didn't he die? Heck, include the GT special with Goku jr and the entire cast except for Pan has passed away.

Super made the extremely stupid decision to be a midquel. Want to know how the ToP ends? Just watch DBZ episode 289. Since we know how the cast winds up nobody of the main DBZ cast was in any danger of perma-death. Will the universe be erased? Nope. The universe is alive and kicking in DBZ 289. Oh no! Goku Black will kill everyone! Oh wait....since we see the cast at the end of Z no one is in danger during DB Super. Oh and they have forgotten all about their Super adventures, the people they met and the SSJG forms.

I get where everyone is coming from when it comes to knowing everything will be okay with Super’s characters because we see that’s how they are at the end of Z. But this is a fictional story with alternate timelines, universes, etc. You can easily derail that by having the events unfold differently and somehow Beerus and Whis become aware of it and explain their meddling with time and what not has resulted in a different timeline or something.

[Son Perfect]

There's the two main reason GT just doesn't flow with fans and that's the ultimate/black star dragon balls arc & Goku becoming a child. I strongly think the ultimate dragon balls arc was very slow and boring but kid Goku just sells me the series. I love the antics of young Goku and the character design is great (very plain yet works for me). Going back to the other hand, the character selection for the ultimate dragon balls arc is what makes you hate the cast. Trunks is overused, Pan gets annoying, and the rest of the characters are left on Earth to do nothing. It's Toei's fault on that end, so I can't really do it justice in this reply.

[ABED]

I like the mix of Goku, Trunks, and Pan. Pan could've grown more, but it's a nice mixture of different personalities, plus the limited cast helps keep the stories focused.

For the life of me, I can't understand why kid Goku bothers anyone so much. I've read the reasons, but I just don't get why it's such a big deal.

The biggest problems is the lack of interesting fights

[Bridgeman]

I don't hate it, but I don't like it at all. I don't like how end of Z made everyone old, and GT made them even older. Krillin is an old, graying man, an insult to the great fighter he once was. Now look at how Super handles Krillin. He's actually back and kicking again. Yamcha I think was seen once in GT. Tien I think not at all? Maybe he showed up once when they teleported everyone before Earth exploded, but that's it. So many characters were completely and utterly wasted in GT. Goten, Gohan, Uub, Trunks. And they wrote out Fat Buu in order to give Uub a power up, then Uub still gets owned. Super Saiyan 4 looked... Cool I guess, but it was ridiculous. Especially how Vegeta reached the form. Goku being a child bothered me because his personality changed. He actually became more childish than when he was an adult. That was the only good thing about SSJ4, that we got to see adult Goku. But I remember when I watched GT as a kid, they said they were going on a journey to make Goku a man again, and throughout the entire series I was looking forward to that... And then it doesn't happen. The ending is ridiculous. Shenron just decides "Well you guys have abused these Dragon Balls way too much and I'm leaving bye" and Goku goes with him for some reason. How does Shenron, a creation of Dende, get to decide what happens to the Dragon Balls? Why does Goku leave with him? Where do they go?

People say Dragon Ball Super is the big Goku & Vegeta show, but honestly GT was way worse. At least Super gives other characters the spotlight every now and then. Yamcha, Tien, Buu, Gohan, Krillin, even Master Roshi. GT was just Goku, Pan, and Trunks, and when Vegeta got SSJ4 it was Goku and Vegeta with the rest of the crew serving as energy batteries and distraction material.