"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

[spoiler]17 is now tied in number of deaths with Krillin and Piccolo.
And if you think about it,he has died in every arc he appeared in.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Damn, that's pitifully true.[/spoiler]

[jeffbr92]

Yo I didn't expect 17 to fucking die. Toei somehow managed to surprise me even though I thought I had it all figured out
And Jiren = Jin Kazama

Fixed man

[8bitdee]

Everyone knows 17 is getting resurrected at the end of the series, but it was still a nice move by Toei because it was unexpected. I was literally thinking during this episode how the tension is non-existent since no one is fighting to kill (until Frieza) so while the universe is in danger of getting erased, no one is in danger of getting killed during an actual battle. So it was quite shocking to have him die even if he's coming back.

[TheMikado]

I’m genuinely curious what “baby jiren” has to offer story wise. It would be hilarious if he was a Superman rehash, or even better like a Bruce Wayne rehashing.

Man a Bruce Wayne Superman combo story will be badass

Well I was thinking that Goku already has the whole Superman backstory going and giving Jiren the tragic orphan backstory would give him a nice foil and justify his Batman like stand-offish and arrogant personality and why he’s so different than the rest of the “Justice League”.

Goku on the other hand gets to have the good natured leader position of his universe like Superman. It would actually make us care about the character and invest in their personal interactions. It would also give context and motivation on why Jiren is so strong when compared to the rest of his universe but why he’s also content to take out regular thugs ala Batman. If handled correctly this could push Jiren into being a genuinely interesting character.

Now I can laugh at my own post haha geez this is hilarious.

[TysonWine]

I was ready to call you Mr. Negative, then I read this post...and can't say I disagree.

Jiren's backstory is awfully generic to the point they shouldn't have even bothered

This x100.

Freeza feels completely different to the way he was portrayed last episode where he had regained his composure somewhat (and he was already portrayed differently compared to the episode before that

What Toppo did to Frieza was far worse than getting caught by a blast that missed Goku and Vegeta. You're correct that if Frieza could keep his composure after that, the way he acted this episode was out of whack.

and the fight is being padded out to the point of annoyance considering Goku and Vegeta are spamming their stamina-heavy forms and their super moves like fucking candy even though they should be out of energy and Jiren is SOMEHOW having trouble with them despite completely destroying Goku back when he was in a healthy state.

This is the biggest issue of the past few episodes. Goku and Vegeta have been battling Jiren for the past 5 episodes now? And nothing has been accomplished by either side. Either Goku and Vegeta's teamwork should be working slowly but surely or Jiren should've defeated them by now.

The past 5 episodes is a great example of fight padding gone wrong. The problem with the fight padding is that Jiren looks less and less impressive every episode. At some point, it's gotta be either he's better than them or he's not. In some exchanges, Jiren looks frustrated and in others he's toying with them. He powered up this episode, but I couldn't feel the difference in combat. He relatively held the same advantage he's been had. When Jiren toyed with SSBKKX20 he looked above the Gods. I'm pretty sure Goku hasn't got stronger since then, but he's performing better. Not that 17's weak, but he was able to injure Jiren this episode. The less invincible Jiren looks, the less impressive Mastered UI will be when he gets defeated. Looks like stamina matters next episode, which I guess means the fluff is over and there's a plot someone in there.

[prince212]

Android 17 did An amazing tournament , the best by far in the team , saved everybody’s asses , mentally screwing Jiren too...
Somehow freeza is starting to remember me. Mr.satan with little bit more guts .....
Goku is really letting Jiren beat his teammates
Vegeta sometimes talks more than necessary
Jiren past was what I expected kinda , I like the way they represented it except the fact of Belmont talking and interrupting a survival fight ...
Pretty Nice episode

[TheMikado]

Ok I’m calling it now. Jirens wish is to change his past, but he realizes that even if he does his universe and his family would be eliminated from the ToP. So in order to save everyone across all universes he wishes that Goku and Beerus never met.

[JazzMazz]

I was ready to call you Mr. Negative, then I read this post...and can't say I disagree.

Freeza feels completely different to the way he was portrayed last episode where he had regained his composure somewhat (and he was already portrayed differently compared to the episode before that

What Toppo did to Frieza was far worse than getting caught by a blast that missed Goku and Vegeta. You're correct that if Frieza could keep his composure after that, the way he acted this episode was out of whack.

Freeza is character known to snap at the slightest instance something goes wrong, his response this episode was very much in tune with how Freeza would act in such a pressuring situation, in other words he would snap and act irrationally. If anything last episode was when Freeza was completely out of character(because seriously, last episode is what I would consider genuinely dreadful).

[Lionel]

Case in point, training has always been a major theme in this franchise. We understand that saiyans are a unique race that are genetically built to fight. Hence, they are unusually strong. So then, why is it that Jiren, a seemingly generic alien, is able to train, but unlike everyone else, can surpass even the gods and be unaffected by time itself (I still can't get over that)? Because he really, really likes being strong? The only thing more unbearable than this is the "u weak, i strong" dialogue they're going to have Jiren repeatedly spewing now, since Toei loves turning their characters into caricatures (JUSTICE FLASH!!!).

Oh, and he lost trust in people, so... he's a part of the Pride Troopers because... strength? Strength is justice? What?

Jiren should have been the survivor of a destroyed universe that had such a high level, it was considered a threat. Jiren should be someone who was born with such an unfathomable power, he trained his whole life to suppress it to not cause damage to the environments and people around him (perfect contrast to Goku). Jiren should be someone with a true sense of justice and little arrogance, as shown in one of the chapters in the manga, not this "strength is justice" bullshit, which just makes him come off as a villain or lame anti-hero.

Maybe he's a freakish abomination like Freeza who just happened to put in the effort to train rather than languish behind an organisation of frightened sycophants who will leap at a moment's notice when you tell them to. The tyrant of Universe 7 never did train in his life until he was resurrected and look where he got to in just four short months? He doesn't even have god ki yet a new transformation was developed that enabled him to stand on par with his hated adversaries who had been undergoing rigorous and otherworldly methods of self-improvement. Strength is a potent instrument for meting out your will and ambitions on those around you. It's not equivalent to a humanitarian philosophy such as "justice" but the idea does require the tangible means for executing it. I just wish the storyboard took the time to make that association between justice and strength.

[fadeddreams5]

Case in point, training has always been a major theme in this franchise. We understand that saiyans are a unique race that are genetically built to fight. Hence, they are unusually strong. So then, why is it that Jiren, a seemingly generic alien, is able to train, but unlike everyone else, can surpass even the gods and be unaffected by time itself (I still can't get over that)? Because he really, really likes being strong? The only thing more unbearable than this is the "u weak, i strong" dialogue they're going to have Jiren repeatedly spewing now, since Toei loves turning their characters into caricatures (JUSTICE FLASH!!!).

Oh, and he lost trust in people, so... he's a part of the Pride Troopers because... strength? Strength is justice? What?

Jiren should have been the survivor of a destroyed universe that had such a high level, it was considered a threat. Jiren should be someone who was born with such an unfathomable power, he trained his whole life to suppress it to not cause damage to the environments and people around him (perfect contrast to Goku). Jiren should be someone with a true sense of justice and little arrogance, as shown in one of the chapters in the manga, not this "strength is justice" bullshit, which just makes him come off as a villain or lame anti-hero.

Maybe he's a freakish abomination like Freeza who just happened to put in the effort to train rather than languish behind an organisation of frightened sycophants who will leap at a moment's notice when you tell them to. The tyrant of Universe 7 never did train in his life until he was resurrected and look where he got to in just four short months? He doesn't even have god ki yet a new transformation was developed that enabled him to stand on par with his hated adversaries who had been undergoing rigorous and otherworldly methods of self-improvement. Strength is a potent instrument for meting out your will and ambitions on those around you. It's not equivalent to a humanitarian philosophy such as "justice" but the idea does require the tangible means for executing it. I just wish the storyboard took the time to make that association between justice and strength.

Disregarding the fact that the whole Frieza training for 4 months and becoming close to a god concept was something I always heavily despised, if that's the case, Jiren wouldn't have lost against that villain several times in his youth. Unless, of course, that villain is at the level of a god of destruction, which is never stated, so... maybe? Regardless, Belmod never referred to Jiren as a prodigy either. At this point, it can only be speculated that he was special somehow, but unless it is stated, all we know is Jiren was at one point relatively weak and trained to become stronger. Frieza was born a monster.

[Dbzfan94]

When people say someone has "no personality," this is not meant to be taken literally. What they mean is the person has a very dull and boring one. In Jiren's case, he's the main antagonist and also written inconsistently, which makes his case worse.

Finally someone who gets it. I would like to see more people who also come to realize this too.

My thoughts exactly.

[WittyUsername]

So I take it that people are generally mixed on Jiren’s backstory? If so, that pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. It’s an extremely generic backstory and I don’t think I ever even wanted a tragic backstory out of Jiren, but it at the very least does provide an explanation for why he’s such a stoic brute, so there’s that. I still feel like they could’ve done better than “his parents and mentor were killed” but I suppose I shouldn’t be expecting too much from Dragon Ball in terms of complex writing.

All in all, I still would’ve preferred if Jiren was more like Superman, rather than Batman with Superman’s strength.

[shadowmaria]

[spoiler]17 is now tied in number of deaths with Krillin and Piccolo.
And if you think about it,he has died in every arc he appeared in.[/spoiler]

Piccolo; vs Nappa, when Kid Buu blew up Earth, vs Frieza, and GT's permadeath, vs the future android's
Krillin; Tambourine's hit, vs Frieza, vs Super Buu, GT 's permadeath, vs the future android's
#17; Cell absorption, aborted timeline where Frieza blew up the Earth, in the Tournament of Power, GT, and his future self in Trunks' future

But remember; he hasn't actually because Krillin always dies the most

[Totamo]

So I take it that people are generally mixed on Jiren’s backstory? If so, that pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. It’s an extremely generic backstory and I don’t think I ever even wanted a tragic backstory out of Jiren, but it at the very least does provide an explanation for why he’s such a stoic brute, so there’s that. I still feel like they could’ve done better than “his parents and mentor were killed” but I suppose I shouldn’t be expecting too much from Dragon Ball in terms of complex writing.

All in all, I still would’ve preferred if Jiren was more like Superman, rather than Batman with Superman’s strength.

from what I have gathered from the filthy casuals, its generic but it works for him.


Now, the hardcores like us generally find it bizarre its happening now and uninteresting.


I'm with the causal side but I understand the hardcores.

[Whatever]

[spoiler]17 is now tied in number of deaths with Krillin and Piccolo.
And if you think about it,he has died in every arc he appeared in.[/spoiler]

Piccolo; vs Nappa, when Kid Buu blew up Earth, vs Frieza, and GT's permadeath, vs the future android's
Krillin; Tambourine's hit, vs Frieza, vs Super Buu, GT 's permadeath, vs the future android's
#17; Cell absorption, aborted timeline where Frieza blew up the Earth, in the Tournament of Power, GT, and his future self in Trunks' future

But remember; he hasn't actually because Krillin always dies the most

Well as far as dbz goes,he had died the most,1 in OG DB and 2 in dbz,same with Chiaotzu but nobody cares about him.

Also 17's fist death was either when Cell exploded or when Gohan killed Cell,most likely the latter.

[Grimlock]

Probably to make more room for ads and the bumper at the front. The subbed versions have the full thing.

That feels weird. Shouldn't have been always like this then?

[dodonpa]

I can't see how Jiren can lose, he is so superior and Goku mastering UI in one episode and beating him would feel so rushed after all these episodes. I think it will end with a tie after a time-out or U7 winning due to more fighters on the arena.

[Lionel]

Having watched the episode myself now, I do have to admit that #17 really distinguished himself as an outlying success and momentum driver. He managed to steal the show for this episode. Although the number of narrational concessions that have been made throughout this tournament to help give these characters some validation does leave a bad taste in my mouth. When the quality performance is organic then it's meaningful. But what's been going on all throughout this tournament and now with inexplicable events like Vegeta somehow mustering up the strength to transform when he was at death's door last episode and the group somehow not getting obliterated by Jiren's glare alone does unfortunately take away from the enjoyment of the episode. I can't believe that any of the characters should have put on the kind of performance that they here. It was for showmanship purposes and I appreciate that, but it does raise a number of fan-concerned mechanics issues that will likely not get addressed.

I did enjoy watching Freeza become unhinged thanks to the actions of the Pride Troopers. Why I found it to be so poignant is because it was the first time, ever, that the tyrant lost his composure, if not his sanity for a short while due to the imposition of someone that wasn't a member of the Saiyan species. Watching this guy who's been the bane of our heroes for so long and had dominated them so badly at first only to have the tables get turned by a non-Saiyan, well it was a powerful moment for me; especially since it wasn't a shoot & kill execution but an absolute domination in hand-to-hand combat with Freeza getting his face planted in the dirt. I was almost hoping for Jiren to take Freeza physically apart and do some examination like on whether those purple carapaces are organic or not, see what's underneath -- maybe do a brutal labial extraction as well to ascertain if Freeza actually puts cosmetics on his face.

[HeroR]

When people say someone has "no personality," this is not meant to be taken literally. What they mean is the person has a very dull and boring one. In Jiren's case, he's the main antagonist and also written inconsistently, which makes his case worse.

Not sure how he's written inconsistently since he has remained the same since his first appearance. Dry and stoic.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Kinda though jirens backstory would have been shit, but it was surprisingly average. Good on you toei, but you could have done better.