Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

[TheOtherDude]

Thats Toriyama's outline/transcript

Where does this monconception that Toriyama isnt involved in the anime come from?

And even when Toei wants to change something they always ask for Toriyama's approval. Everything you see was either from Toriyama's transcripts or approved by Toriyama

Toriyama doesn't do that. In his manga, you're twice as weak as your foe, you are immediately defeated. He would never write base Vegeta hanging in there against Jiren.

You're talking as if Toriyamas involvement and approval is a positive...

It is. If Toriyama's directly involved, power levels at least matter. If he's not, we get THIS. And stuff like Cooler coming back from Hell with his body intact, as he did in GT. Lol.

The reason why I feel Toriyama chose to keep Vegeta in base form is to really showcase how outmatched Vegeta is and that despite how outmatched Vegeta is, Vegeta keeps coming at Jiren with resiliency until the very end.

Its to further showcase Vegeta's durability, will, and resiliency.

Vegeta in base form isnt going to be competitive lol.

Plus people want more sound logic in Super, its only logical Vegeta can only stay in base form now. Hes used up every ounce of energ he has. You want him to just start magically powering up to SSB again. People hated that Vegeta did that in this episode after 126. 128 is fixing that. Its been Vegeta's time to go for a while. They are giving Vegetav2 epic farewells now. Its finally time tobe all about Goku now

So Goku recovering all their energy in seconds is logical?

Constantly nerfing Jirens strength to give people some attention?

[Elvis143BRA]

Various false reports are being made, and account strikes are in turn being issued back again those reporting in bad faith.

r/dbz is circlejerk intent on...

Disparaging other communities is unacceptable and leads to account strikes, as well. This is your only free warning

Account strikes may also be issued against similar disparaging comments against any individual or group of fans. However, genuine criticism of a character, the show, its writing, itself — divorced from obvious, blatant, antagonistic comments toward your community peers — is of course welcome and encouraged. Account strikes/bans are not and have never been issued for this.

All would do well to review the community guidelines, which all members agreed to (twice) prior to registration. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website.

Aside from posts like this trying to sanitize healthy discussions, this community is good.

[TheOtherDude]

Various false reports are being made, and account strikes are in turn being issued back again those reporting in bad faith.

r/dbz is circlejerk intent on...

Disparaging other communities is unacceptable and leads to account strikes, as well. This is your only free warning

Account strikes may also be issued against similar disparaging comments against any individual or group of fans. However, genuine criticism of a character, the show, its writing, itself — divorced from obvious, blatant, antagonistic comments toward your community peers — is of course welcome and encouraged. Account strikes/bans are not and have never been issued for this.

All would do well to review the community guidelines, which all members agreed to (twice) prior to registration. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website.

Aside from posts like this trying to sanitize healthy discussions, this community is good.

That’s debatable. You have people who intentionally try to get a rise out of people.

[Kanassa]

Various false reports are being made, and account strikes are in turn being issued back again those reporting in bad faith.

r/dbz is circlejerk intent on...

Disparaging other communities is unacceptable and leads to account strikes, as well. This is your only free warning

Account strikes may also be issued against similar disparaging comments against any individual or group of fans. However, genuine criticism of a character, the show, its writing, itself — divorced from obvious, blatant, antagonistic comments toward your community peers — is of course welcome and encouraged. Account strikes/bans are not and have never been issued for this.

All would do well to review the community guidelines, which all members agreed to (twice) prior to registration. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website.

Aside from posts like this trying to sanitize healthy discussions, this community is good.

There's no such thing as a good community, just "Well, we're not the worst yet"

[freak27]

I think the script was barely one notch above mental retardation. Their strategy after all this time is to hit him "with a big attack, hard"

Dear God help me!! Its so bad, I'm in pain!!!!

[JazzMazz]

I think the script was barely one notch above mental retardation. Their strategy after all this time is to hit him "with a big attack, hard"

Dear God help me!! Its so bad, I'm in pain!!!!

I know its a fairly generic plan, but whats wrong with the plan?

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Toriyama doesn't do that. In his manga, you're twice as weak as your foe, you are immediately defeated. He would never write base Vegeta hanging in there against Jiren.



It is. If Toriyama's directly involved, power levels at least matter. If he's not, we get THIS. And stuff like Cooler coming back from Hell with his body intact, as he did in GT. Lol.

The reason why I feel Toriyama chose to keep Vegeta in base form is to really showcase how outmatched Vegeta is and that despite how outmatched Vegeta is, Vegeta keeps coming at Jiren with resiliency until the very end.

Its to further showcase Vegeta's durability, will, and resiliency.

Vegeta in base form isnt going to be competitive lol.

Plus people want more sound logic in Super, its only logical Vegeta can only stay in base form now. Hes used up every ounce of energ he has. You want him to just start magically powering up to SSB again. People hated that Vegeta did that in this episode after 126. 128 is fixing that. Its been Vegeta's time to go for a while. They are giving Vegetav2 epic farewells now. Its finally time tobe all about Goku now

So Goku recovering all their energy in seconds is logical?

Constantly nerfing Jirens strength to give people some attention?

After Vegeta nearly self destructed and was completely out of energy, he was still powering up to SSB this episode. That was highly illogical.

Considering all that, Vegeta staying in base form in 128 is a great correction and very logical

Goku started running into stamina issues because his first battle with Jiren

1. Remember Frieza gave Goku energy

2. Goku got Omen again against Kefla

3. Its been implied Goku has been getting zenkai boosts

Now I'm not saying its tge best logic, but its def more logical then whats been happening with Vegeta's situation imo

In what way ways do you feel Jiren was nerfed? I've made posts adressing that

[Boku no Hitto]

I think the script was barely one notch above mental retardation. Their strategy after all this time is to hit him "with a big attack, hard"

Dear God help me!! Its so bad, I'm in pain!!!!

I know its a fairly generic plan, but whats wrong with the plan?

Right? At this point anything is better than nothing. Jiren can't sense 17 and 17 is jist strong enough that he can "effect" and off-guard Jiren. That's a HELL of a lot more than Goku and Vegeta were doing.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I think the script was barely one notch above mental retardation. Their strategy after all this time is to hit him "with a big attack, hard"

Dear God help me!! Its so bad, I'm in pain!!!!

I know its a fairly generic plan, but whats wrong with the plan?

Right? At this point anything is better than nothing. Jiren can't sense 17 and 17 is jist strong enough that he can "effect" and off-guard Jiren. That's a HELL of a lot more than Goku and Vegeta were doing.

Do you watch MMA or boxing? Some fighters with the greatest chins ever walk through some of the nastiest looking shots yet get KOd by weak looking shots because they didnt see it coming

It doeant matter how strong someone is, you catch them off guard or off balance, it does damage

If you are into MMA watch Conor Mcgregor. Hes a counter punching genuis. Hes knocking bigger stronger fighters dead because hes getting them with beautiful counters they never saw coming and werent prepared for. Similar concept.

[DiegoBrando]

Only one side seems to have this intolerant, harmful attitude, and it isnt the people who like Super. This is across the internet. I guess its internet culture now a days. I myself would rather focus on positivity then negativity

Hey, I can be a pretty intolerant, spiteful bastard when someone disses my cartoons

Its just funny when people complain about too many positive opinions and that their criticism is always silenced, when its usually the opposite. Detractors of Super get way too serious. As you said Its a cartoon. Does it really matter that people enjoy Super and are willing to ignore some flaws to enjoy it? Its not like Super is legit awful or anything. Its popular for a reason

I'm sure the Kardashians are popular for a reason too. What reason that may be, only god knows.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Hey, I can be a pretty intolerant, spiteful bastard when someone disses my cartoons

Its just funny when people complain about too many positive opinions and that their criticism is always silenced, when its usually the opposite. Detractors of Super get way too serious. As you said Its a cartoon. Does it really matter that people enjoy Super and are willing to ignore some flaws to enjoy it? Its not like Super is legit awful or anything. Its popular for a reason

I'm sure the Kardashians are popular for a reason too. What reason that may be, only god knows.

So youre saying Super is the Kardashians of anime. How many here would agree with that, or disagree

[Amir]

Jiren was slightly hurt because he was unguarded, like the episode stated. But in episode 110, Jiren didn't have that off guard weakness.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Hey, I can be a pretty intolerant, spiteful bastard when someone disses my cartoons

Its just funny when people complain about too many positive opinions and that their criticism is always silenced, when its usually the opposite. Detractors of Super get way too serious. As you said Its a cartoon. Does it really matter that people enjoy Super and are willing to ignore some flaws to enjoy it? Its not like Super is legit awful or anything. Its popular for a reason

I'm sure the Kardashians are popular for a reason too. What reason that may be, only god knows.

ps

I hardly see the name Diego Brando. Just reminded me how there was a brazilian MMA fighter named Deigo Brandao lol

[Kanassa]

Its just funny when people complain about too many positive opinions and that their criticism is always silenced, when its usually the opposite. Detractors of Super get way too serious. As you said Its a cartoon. Does it really matter that people enjoy Super and are willing to ignore some flaws to enjoy it? Its not like Super is legit awful or anything. Its popular for a reason

I'm sure the Kardashians are popular for a reason too. What reason that may be, only god knows.

So youre saying Super is the Kardashians of anime. How many here would agree with that, or disagree

To be fair, how many people agree or not... Means jack shit. Point is, something you think is terrible or is terrible can get popular. Twilight, RWBY, Last Jedi, Dragon Ball Z, Percy Jackson, Steven Universe. I think all of those things range from hot garbage to "I don't know why I still watch this" in an objective way, yet I can still see why they're so popular. Popularity isn't an objective way to judge the quality of fiction, it merely means that the product has appeal. No matter the quality of Super, it has the appeal of nostalgia, colorful characters, entertaining action and Toys up the ass.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I'm curious, anyone can step in and answer, if Jiren's backstory were given earlier, do you think that wouldve made a difference? Been better etc?

[Doctor.]

So, let me get this straight. We're gonna bring back Freeza, we're gonna imply that he learned from his mistakes, we're gonna make it so that he plays it cool for all the tournament and we're gonna have him realize he's no match for Jiren so he's gonna manipulate the others into taking him out for him. Then... let's have him literally chimp out and attack Jiren for no particular reason besides a cheap Namek arc reference. Sure, why not? I just can't understand what the hell they have in mind. It's like each episode is trying to destroy everything the others have set up.

"Looks like getting hit by an attack that big, unguarded, can hurt him" has to go down as one of the dumbest lines someone has ever said in this show.

Jiren's backstory is bad. Let's ignore the fact that it's generic and that "Might is Right" is such a boring theme for the final antagonist of a series. The portrayal of Jiren in this episode feels completely incoherent with the way he was being characterized in the past. What happened to "I seek what lies beyond strength"? What happened to his disdain for Hit being an assassin? If Jiren was always like this, then he would have praised Hit for being strong regardless of his occupation.

And, of course, #17's sacrifice, though he has been one of the highlights of the tournament, felt completely shallow due to the fact that the fight seems to have no sense of progression. They were already getting their asses kicked when Jiren was holding back, he reveals his full power and... nothing changes. Vegeta and Goku still spam their Final Flash/KHH combo and Jiren still tanks it only to have trouble with them in hand-to-hand combat. He actually feels weaker now considering, when he was holding back, he was defeating Kaioken x20 with a glance and shrugging off UI Goku's attacks. The sacrifice feels unnecessary since he could have just pushed Vegeta and Goku out of the way (we know he can control his barriers' movement now) and tried to block his attack with pure strength. Had he succeeded, great; had he failed, he would have been dead and Jiren disqualified. As always, Toei only seems to care about the spectacle and not about the context surrounding it. Also, I don't really want to mention it, since it's a superficial aspect of the scene, but #18's reaction had no weight because of how lifeless her face looked and how stiff the animation was.

One thing I do like is that the stage is finally somewhat interesting. Characters bouncing from rock to rock, using the side of the stage as footing. The choreography isn't really good, but at least the stage and setting is actually pleasant to look at now.

[TheOtherDude]

The reason why I feel Toriyama chose to keep Vegeta in base form is to really showcase how outmatched Vegeta is and that despite how outmatched Vegeta is, Vegeta keeps coming at Jiren with resiliency until the very end.

Its to further showcase Vegeta's durability, will, and resiliency.

Vegeta in base form isnt going to be competitive lol.

Plus people want more sound logic in Super, its only logical Vegeta can only stay in base form now. Hes used up every ounce of energ he has. You want him to just start magically powering up to SSB again. People hated that Vegeta did that in this episode after 126. 128 is fixing that. Its been Vegeta's time to go for a while. They are giving Vegetav2 epic farewells now. Its finally time tobe all about Goku now

So Goku recovering all their energy in seconds is logical?

Constantly nerfing Jirens strength to give people some attention?

After Vegeta nearly self destructed and was completely out of energy, he was still powering up to SSB this episode. That was highly illogical.

Considering all that, Vegeta staying in base form in 128 is a great correction and very logical

Goku started running into stamina issues because his first battle with Jiren

1. Remember Frieza gave Goku energy

2. Goku got Omen again against Kefla

3. Its been implied Goku has been getting zenkai boosts

Now I'm not saying its tge best logic, but its def more logical then whats been happening with Vegeta's situation imo

In what way ways do you feel Jiren was nerfed? I've made posts adressing that

It’s logical if you keep in mind about how the manga was set up. You seem to be obsessed with Toei having an outline to follow so let me clear this up.

It looks inconsistent because of how atrocious Toei is writing Super. In the manga, Goku and Vegeta are essentially equals at the beginning of this arc. It’s safe to say that Goku and Vegeta were supposed to be neck and neck at the start. In the anime it was hard to make that happen since they came up with SSBKK, so naturally they had to sneak that in somewhere. Yeah it would’ve been nice that this was clear from the beginning, but oh well.

You’re essentially saying that you’ll tolerate all kinds of inconsistencies with everything else as long as it’s not Vegeta. Gokus recovery makes even less sense than Vegetas even though we saw Vegeta intentionally keep his energy to himself to conserve stamina.

They’re nerfing Jirens strength by making it seem like they actually have a chance of defeating him. Jiren just got “serious” and there’s really nothing new about how he’s dominating everyone. It’s like it has been these last few episodes. Serious Jiren (who is supposed to be stronger/as strong as a God of a Destruction) should be able to flick someone like 17 and knock him out. It’s like Roshi fighting Frost for a few seconds. Frost was put on defense by Roshi and had a better showing than Piccolo. It’s fake tension. But guys like you eat it up and defend it in every way possible.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I'm sure the Kardashians are popular for a reason too. What reason that may be, only god knows.

So youre saying Super is the Kardashians of anime. How many here would agree with that, or disagree

To be fair, how many people agree or not... Means jack shit. Point is, something you think is terrible or is terrible can get popular.
.

Not as popular as Super in the anime world. This isnt hollywood that can shove anything to the forefront. Heres something to consider, some people actually do like Super and think its a legit great show. Are you saying they are wrong for liking such a terrible show?

I know Super is highly flawed at times. I still enjoy it. I myself actually use to be a detractor of Super. The tournament of power arc and Goku's UI (Goku being great again) really turned me around on Super. Me enjoying Super doesnt make my opinion wrong or me an ignorant kid who just loves flashy things

[ZenkaiBoosts]

So Goku recovering all their energy in seconds is logical?

Constantly nerfing Jirens strength to give people some attention?

After Vegeta nearly self destructed and was completely out of energy, he was still powering up to SSB this episode. That was highly illogical.

Considering all that, Vegeta staying in base form in 128 is a great correction and very logical

Goku started running into stamina issues because his first battle with Jiren

1. Remember Frieza gave Goku energy

2. Goku got Omen again against Kefla

3. Its been implied Goku has been getting zenkai boosts

Now I'm not saying its tge best logic, but its def more logical then whats been happening with Vegeta's situation imo

In what way ways do you feel Jiren was nerfed? I've made posts adressing that

It’s logical if you keep in mind about how the manga was set up. You seem to be obsessed with Toei having an outline to follow so let me clear this up.

I stopped here. I'm obsessed. What? What are you even talking about. Youre going to "clear up" my wrong opinion and ignorance now

Can other mods chime in? Him writing that to me was very confrontational, antagonistic, aggressive, which I'm sure is against the guidelines.

But I'm now afraid to even report him because Vegetto legit gave me a warning for reporting a post. He has something against me and always targets me

Can another mod handle this

[TheOtherDude]

After Vegeta nearly self destructed and was completely out of energy, he was still powering up to SSB this episode. That was highly illogical.

Considering all that, Vegeta staying in base form in 128 is a great correction and very logical

Goku started running into stamina issues because his first battle with Jiren

1. Remember Frieza gave Goku energy

2. Goku got Omen again against Kefla

3. Its been implied Goku has been getting zenkai boosts

Now I'm not saying its tge best logic, but its def more logical then whats been happening with Vegeta's situation imo

In what way ways do you feel Jiren was nerfed? I've made posts adressing that

It’s logical if you keep in mind about how the manga was set up. You seem to be obsessed with Toei having an outline to follow so let me clear this up.

I stopped here. I'm obsessed. What? What are you even talking about

Can other mods chime in? Him writing that to me was very confrontational, antagonistic, aggressive, which I'm sure is against the guidelines.

But I'm now afraid to even report him because Vegetto legit gave me a warning for reporting a post. He has something against me and always targets me

Can another mod handle this

How is this even offensive? I’ve seen you try to counter people by pointing out Toeis outline. I’m not sure what you’re complaining about, but I’m just using your previous statements as a counter.