H3ct0r_17 wrote:Asura wrote:Nickolaidas wrote:
I'm sorry, how did I broke the forum guidelines again? By calling #17's sacrifice what it was? Can you honestly think of a better word to call a plan which basically boils down to "I'll kill myself in order to give Goku five seconds (literally) to rest"? No seriously, how do you call a plan like that?
I get that this is a DB fansite, and negativity isn't its strongest suit, but still we *should* be allowed to call a spade a spade.
I don’t think you said anything wrong either. Are we really going to be this PC here now to get upset at the word “retarded” being used?
Because I agree, it was retarded. Even if you don’t factor in the fact that one of the main reasons he did it was to give Goku and Vegeta 5 more seconds of rest (Goku shouldn’t have even said anything so this wouldn’t be as big of a point as it is), why did he even blow himself up when he could have just taken the hit and let Jiren kill him instead, thereby disqualifying him? Surely they could have written this scene where 17 sacrifices himself without getting hit first by Jiren’s attack so this wouldn’t be an issue. To me it really is such a wasted opportunity. A good concept, and a retarded execution, because yeah killing yourself instead of letting someone else kill you in a tournament where killing disqualifies the person is pretty retarded.
How can you be so sure that 17 was going to get killed by Jiren's blast even if he lowered his guard? Jiren isn't that stupid to get himself disqualified because he knew Goku, Vegeta and Frieza were heavily wounded/unconscious.
The blast was going to ring all of them and 17 had to sacrifice to stop Jiren's attack as Supreme Old Kai said, because there was no other option as there was nowhere to run or in condition to fight back.
There was an entire half an arena left, including beneath them too. There's plenty of arena all over the place. Considering Toppo was literally throwing around destruction which can erase someone from existence, the whole "he wouldn't be stupid enough to actually fire a lethal attack" explanation doesn't really fly anymore. I would have fully agreed with you before 126, but given the atrocious writing we sometimes get, it kinda flips things on its head. The blast wasn't even as big as the area they were standing on, and given we know that there was floor underneath them, the way in which 17 decides to handle this is pretty dumb when you consider how smart he's been in the past. He could have easily just destroyed the floor underneath Goku & Vegeta, or better yet he could have just shielded them with him and then jumped away. We've seen that he can shield other people as well as himself and have them move with him (as he did with Toppo).
The problem with a self sacrifice in a tournament like this, in which no killing is allowed in the first place, means that there should be NO OTHER OPTION AT ALL. Here's an idea as to how you actually make this work. Make it so 17 is down on the ground like Goku & Vegeta and can't move. This limits his mobility meaning there's no chance for him to grab anyone and run away or dodge the attack. Then, put them on the very edge of the rock and emphasize the point that there literally is nowhere to run by showing how there's no other rocks or anything around them. If we completely ignore the emotional side of this sacrifice (which was done poorly too), the sacrifice needs to have logical impact to truly hit the point home that there is nothing else he could have done.
Take Majin Vegeta's sacrifice for example. There was nowhere he could run, nothing he could do, his only chance of winning against Buu was to sacrifice himself for everyone else and go out in a final explosion. There was no other way. Even if we completely ignore the emotional aspect of Vegeta's sacrifice, the sacrifice hits that much harder when you realize this is the only thing he could do. Compare this with 126 where Vegeta does the same move and it's retarded simply because there was no need to even do it. He was already winning against Toppo. If Vegeta actually sacrificed himself there, and ignoring the emotional impact of that scene, the sacrifice would be so laughably stupid because there wasn't enough reason for him to sacrifice himself, and there were many things he could have done without resorting to killing himself.
With the way 17 was handled in this episode, they didn't limit him enough. He was pretty much unharmed the entire episode, and he has infinite energy, meaning he pretty much still has access to his full span of abilities, and given how the scene itself was presented the setting allowed for him to do more than just stand there and kill himself. Making it so Goku & Vegeta can't even move and having 17 defend them and sacrifice himself is a great idea, but like I said when there are inconsistencies and holes in that logic it kinda falls apart.
Which could go to his secret wish! 
An unlikely one but it would be a neat sight to see Jiren officially beat a God of Destruction.
