Let's Talk About God Ki

[Wizardon]

So what exactly makes God ki any different from regular ki aside from it being blatantly stronger, and not being able to be normally sensed? (Even though some mortals like Dende and Hit can for unexplained reasons)

What's the difference from God ki and "natural" God ki, which is what Goku Black used to go Rose? Why is the God ki that Goku and Vegeta have not "natural?" Is the Super Saiyan God ritual artificial?

How important is God ki really for reaching these absurd tiers of power if regular ki can seemingly get you there just fine? Does Frieza's golden form let him gain access to God ki? If so, is THAT "natural" God ki? What about Hit, or Jiren? They seem to be doing just fine, if not better without it.

Lastly, do you guys think, aside from the supposed power boost...does God ki have any special properties? Like possibly cutting through hakai energy? Or do you think this could have been done by pumping out enough normal ki?

[Lord Beerus]

There really not much thought put into God ki beyond the fact that some people have naturally and others can attain from training.

[dragon boss z]

It's been irrelevant ever since BoG, which is disappointing.

[Svenerator]

Let's introduce a new concept to justify the leaps the power, oh wait never mind you don't new god ki to be insanely strong

[Pantalones]

I think the idea was that Goku and Vegeta needed god ki to get that strong, not that it's impossible for anyone else to reach those levels or beyond without it. It certainly helps, but I suspect most of the huge power increase we see in the Saiyans is due to Whis's training (particularly the bit about keeping your ki from leaking out) and the Super Saiyan God ritual both increasing power by a lot, rather than just some special property of godly ki. The East Kaioshin had godly ki, after all, and he wasn't anything all that special in terms of power by the time he appeared in the show -- so there's more to it than just "got god ki? okay, now you're fifty-bajillion times stronger." Godly ki in itself just opens up new potential power that someone only using mortal ki wouldn't have had before. Just like how unlocking Super Saiyan meant that the Saiyans could get a lot stronger by training while transformed and eventually mastering the form so it's just as easy on their bodies as their normal form would be, strengthening their base form by a TON in the process -- it would've been hard for them to raise their base power to Cell Games levels without that method of training, but just because Super Saiyan was necessary for that training doesn't mean having it alone brought them to that level automatically.

Goku and Vegeta weren't like Freeza who was already stronger than their base forms would ever get despite having never really trained before, or Hit who'd trained for over a thousand years and still had potential for improvement, or Jiren who probably had the highest potential among all mortals to have ever lived (and might also have some experience with god ki, maybe he's even be able to use it to some extent, considering that he works with Toppo.) But introducing god ki brought them a whole new well of potential power to draw on that wasn't accessible before (and training with Whis seems to have introduced another untapped potential for power with Ultra Instinct), so now they can get ludicrously stronger than before.

As for "natural" god ki -- that's probably referring to how Zamasu was a Kaioshin (and former Kaio, since apparently the 10th universe works differently than the 7th as far as whether the two come from separate "races" or not.) It seems Shinjin are born with godly ki, rather than needing to develop it through special training or have it granted by some ritual, so his godly ki would be "natural" in the sense that he's always had it. He'd probably look at the Super Saiyan God ritual as something similar to Babidi's spell, unnaturally increasing its user's power (and since it gives godly power to a mortal, he'd probably consider it to be just as evil as Babidi's mind-control, too!)

Also, Dende can sense god ki because... he's a god. He's Kami of Earth. He can't use his for destructive purposes since the planetary gods are classed with the Kaio and Kaioshin as creation gods rather than with the Gods of Destruction, but presumably he would have god ki (a tiny amount maybe, but it would still be there.)

[Miracles]

God ki is nothing more than a very high battle power among st the gods. Otherwise Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be training to surpass Beerus.
Also, we have seen other character just as strong as those with "god ki," in fact, even stronger.

[Svenerator]

I totally agree that it something that Goku and Vegeta needed to get stronger. But it just seems silly for a lack of better words in how later opponents (and allies! Gohan/17e.g) can do fine without. Throughout Dbz there was some thought put into how to introduce new villains after the insane power climb after the Freeza arc, Cell which is engineered to be that way, and Buu just some ancient old creature which gives some credibility. I would have loved it they indeed confirmed that Hit and Jiren and everyone for that matter who can compete at that level that they too tapped into godly ki to have such strength. All in all I wanted it to have more of story impact throughout Super.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I totally agree that it something that Goku and Vegeta needed to get stronger. But it just seems silly for a lack of better words in how later opponents (and allies! Gohan/17e.g) can do fine without. Throughout Dbz there was some thought put into how to introduce new villains after the insane power climb after the Freeza arc, Cell which is engineered to be that way, and Buu just some ancient old creature which gives some credibility. I would have loved it they indeed confirmed that Hit and Jiren and everyone for that matter who can compete at that level that they too tapped into godly ki to have such strength. All in all I wanted it to have more of story impact throughout Super.

If other fighters were stated to also be able to tap into it to increase their power, it might be more palatable.

For example, Golden Freeza unlocking this form via tapping into God Ki would've been an interesting idea. He detests the Saiyans and yet has more in common with them than he'd like to admit; it'd also segue well into him learning to sense God Ki, rather than it being linked to his power alone.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

So what exactly makes God ki any different from regular ki aside from it being blatantly stronger, and not being able to be normally sensed? (Even though some mortals like Dende and Hit can for unexplained reasons)

Technically, god ki is stated to exude a lot of tangible pressure in episode 22 by Vegeta and episode 54 by Trunks. Thus, this explains nearly every case of a mortal seemingly being able to detect god ki when in reality, it wasn't the case, it was just the pressure they felt.

The only case that goes unexplained is Hit, because he was able to flat-out measure the multipliers of Goku's Blue Kaioken. Thus, I guess he's the exception to the rule that mortals can't sense god ki. That and just plain bad writing.

For Dende, you could argue that he's a god, thus can sense god ki, but he's not a "god" the way a Kaioshin is or Hakaishin is. So perhaps he felt that overwhelming pressure, thus his reaction. Or both.

What's the difference from God ki and "natural" God ki, which is what Goku Black used to go Rose? Why is the God ki that Goku and Vegeta have not "natural?" Is the Super Saiyan God ritual artificial?

This, I have absolutely no idea. I guess "natural" god ki would be those who were born with it, in this case, the Shinlings (the race of the Kaioshin). Any mortal powerful enough can be trained in god ki, like Goku, Vegeta, Toppo and seemingly every other Hakaishin.

How important is God ki really for reaching these absurd tiers of power if regular ki can seemingly get you there just fine? Does Frieza's golden form let him gain access to God ki? If so, is THAT "natural" God ki? What about Hit, or Jiren? They seem to be doing just fine, if not better without it.

My guess is that god ki is just a shortcut to reaching higher levels of power in less time than training in normal ki. In comparison to Goku and Vegeta, in Hit's case, he's lived 1000 years, so he's had plenty of time to get to the level that he's at. In the case of Freeza, I guess his race can get stronger at a faster rate than Saiyans can (4 months, wtf), so Jiren and Toppo could fall in at least one of the two categories. And there's no confirmation that Freeza has god ki. The way his aura looks isn't a valid argument, as the appearance of aura varies regardless of whether one has god ki or not.

Lastly, do you guys think, aside from the supposed power boost...does God ki have any special properties? Like possibly cutting through hakai energy? Or do you think this could have been done by pumping out enough normal ki?

That's what I thought at first with Vegeta cutting through Toppo's Hakai. Just like in Naruto, ninjutsu couldn't affect the Ten-Tails Jinchuuriki, but senjutsu and physical attacks that were strong enough could. However, Jiren isn't confirmed to have god ki, and it's stated a Hakaishin cannot defeat him, so I guess he can pull of the same feat as Vegeta did. You just need to be stronger than the user of Hakai. Which is dumb, but whatever. And I guess a special property of god ki is Hakai, given Goku can use it in the manga and not the anime, and Hakaishin can use it whenever and wherever. Aside from that, getting stronger in a shorter amount of time and being able to sense others with god ki, I'm not sure it has any other special properties.

[Captain Sauza]

I think it's just another one of the silly things that makes Dragon Ball Super ridiculous.

[Ozotto]

Merchandising.

Take a Goku figure, sell it with gold hair, repaint to blue, ???, profit.

[8bitdee]

I think calling it God Ki, and the new transformation Super Saiyan God, was the downfall of this concept to begin with as it implied an otherworldly level yet it's been half-assedly used as simply a power-up for Saiyans which other characters have been able to obtain without having anything "godly" about their power. I wish they would've chosen different wording for SSJ God, like Legendary SSJ or something.
I think Toriyama and Toei abandoned the idea of making it a relevant concept, especially now with Ultra Instinct in the mix which is not so much as "godly" Ki as it is an attainment of perfect martial arts instinct.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

This topic make me think of what if there is more than God Ki and normal Ki

What if all magic based power use its own ki ?

[Logania]

The concept of God Ki could've been a saving grace in the series. A quick way for the characters like Piccolo, Krillin, Tien etc the opportunity to get back into the level of power near Goku and Vegeta so they won't be left in the back and get some screentime again.

Yet all we got is just a reason for Goku and Vegeta to get new forms of SSJ and not much else. It also makes them seem a lot weaker than everyone else ironically, as they have to train with God's while Caulifla, Cabba and Kale are in God levels of power without it, Roshi can train in secret and get as strong as God level base Goku, and Gohan can train with Piccolo for a few hours and be at the level of SSJG-SSJB even though he barely trains before that point. Why show Goku and Vegeta train and work to the bone when everyone gets power-up coupons for no reason?

It would've made a lot more sense and not feel as dumb (to me) is if Beerus and Whis take them all into the Room of Spirit and Time to let them learn God Ki before the tournament since they're the last hope for the Universe. It would've been easier to digest and the concept of God Ki could still have merit beyond the very first arc.

[Zeru14]

The concept of God Ki could've been a saving grace in the series. A quick way for the characters like Piccolo, Krillin, Tien etc the opportunity to get back into the level of power near Goku and Vegeta so they won't be left in the back and get some screentime again.

Exactly, ironically they do this in Heroes, introducing a unnamed blue-eyed form for the other races(Nameks, Majins, Androids, Frieza's race), that is a state of being for them when using God Ki, putting them on the same tier as a Saiyan using Super Saiyan Blue.

[Logania]

Exactly, ironically they do this in Heroes, introducing a unnamed blue-eyed form for the other races(Nameks, Majins, Androids, Frieza's race), that is a state of being for them when using God Ki, putting them on the same tier as a Saiyan using Super Saiyan Blue.

Really? That actually sounds pretty interesting! Hopefully that idea can be implemented into the Super manga during or after the Tournament of Power. Just put it on the Universe 6 Namekians to spice it up a bit.