"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Toyotaro is one writer working closely with Toriyama and "Toie" has many working much more far away from him and even themselves, you don't have to look for it even then the poor communication between them really shows..
Under similar conditions, yes, Toyotaro will de better..
Maybe I should throw in some more maybe's in there next time..


Yeah, that's why I put the Pure next generation at the very beginning

People keep saying the 'writers don't talk to each other in Super' when they clearly do and even then, they don't have control what happens in the episode. That's the director of the show. They just put together what happens.

And Toyo being 'one writer working closely with Toriyama' doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.

That is not how that works. The writer tells the director what he is suppose to show. The writer tells the actor what he suppose to say. If Toriyama wrote Goku kills Freeza, the director can't change that.


Writing is the least difficult yet most important part of a show.

They don’t. The director tells the writers what happens and the writer put it together. They don’t have creative control.

For Super, Toriyama says Freeza dies. The director fills in the details of how these events happened and break them into episodes. Then the writers put these elements together.

[HeroR]

They don’t have the guts to connect a failed and very popular produced with a successful one? Most wouldn’t.

GT figures that until today as the new content on Heroes too, some fans consider to be superior than Super, so I don't see how is a failed product, bad? Yes, but that's subjective.

Well, what other options are there that would excite the fanbase on the same level as new Z (and Super) sequel? I could see Future Trunks spinoff anime being popular, but it would never be seen as the true main continuation of the story (unless it actually featured the entire cast heavily and directly followed EOZ)

They can always do plenty of movies and OVAs, don't know why fans are in such a urge for a new anime series, I would be just fine if the franchise took a pause on that, we waited 18 years for Super after all.

Some fans thinking GT is better than Super doesn’t changed the fact that GT is a failed produced that actually put the franchise to sleep for a decade. Even then, most what is sold for GT is Super Saiyan 4 and almost nothing else. In fact, GT figures are being sold under Super’s name, not GT.

[jeffbr92]

Some fans thinking GT is better than Super doesn’t changed the fact that GT is a failed produced that actually put the franchise to sleep for a decade. Even then, most what is sold for GT is Super Saiyan 4 and almost nothing else. In fact, GT figures are being sold under Super’s name, not GT.

Then a friendly reminder: your opinion is not a fact.
Failed is something like Evolution, GT doesn't even come close to that. DB franchise did not sleep for a decade as games and other merchandisings still were released and sold a lot at time.

[HeroR]

Then a friendly reminder: your opinion is not a fact.
Failed for me is something like Evolution, GT doesn't even come close to that. DB franchise did not sleep for a decade as games and other merchandisings still were released and sold a lot at time.

That isn’t an opinion. GT is factually a failed produce. Evolution Is a failure because it bombed at the box office. Quality has nothing to do with failure. Dumbo, a Disney classic, was a failure when it released, the same with Bambi.

GT failure kept anything new from Dragon Ball until Online and Heroes, and game sells stagnated after awhile.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Then a friendly reminder: your opinion is not a fact.
Failed for me is something like Evolution, GT doesn't even come close to that. DB franchise did not sleep for a decade as games and other merchandisings still were released and sold a lot at time.

That isn’t an opinion. GT is factually a failed produce. Evolution Is a failure because it bombed at the box office. Quality has nothing to do with failure. Dumbo, a Disney classic, was a failure when it released, the same with Bambi.

GT failure kept anything new from Dragon Ball until Online and Heroes, and game sells stagnated after awhile.

Oh man, you actually believe that GTs failure (not a big failure mind you) kept new things from coming? Oh boy

[Basaku]

They can always do plenty of movies and OVAs, don't know why fans are in such a urge for a new anime series, I would be just fine if the franchise took a time on that, we waited 18 years for Super after all.

Movies and OVAs don't drive the revenue machine in a way longform episodic series does, we already have the obvious data for that. Unless Toei/Bandai board of directors is made of purist artists who hate money exclusively, chances are another series will follow sooner than later. Too much money is on the table

[HeroR]

Then a friendly reminder: your opinion is not a fact.
Failed for me is something like Evolution, GT doesn't even come close to that. DB franchise did not sleep for a decade as games and other merchandisings still were released and sold a lot at time.

That isn’t an opinion. GT is factually a failed produce. Evolution Is a failure because it bombed at the box office. Quality has nothing to do with failure. Dumbo, a Disney classic, was a failure when it released, the same with Bambi.

GT failure kept anything new from Dragon Ball until Online and Heroes, and game sells stagnated after awhile.

Oh man, you actually believe that GTs failure (not a big failure mind you) kept new things from coming? Oh boy

It put things on paused since nothing new happened with Dragon Ball for years after it. Whether it was GT itself or people was just sick of Dragon Ball it made Toei sit on the franchise and made them not want to do a new Dragon Ball series without Toriyama.

[jeffbr92]

That isn’t an opinion. GT is factually a failed produce. Evolution Is a failure because it bombed at the box office. Quality has nothing to do with failure. Dumbo, a Disney classic, was a failure when it released, the same with Bambi.

GT failure kept anything new from Dragon Ball until Online and Heroes, and game sells stagnated after awhile.

It isn't. You can keep telling that to yourself if you want, DB franchise after GT end was still big at time and kept growing popular as the years go by.

It was a show that draw less attention and much less impactful than Super? Yes, I not denying that, but is far from be the cause of franchise being "inactive" for a decade.

If GT was a "factually failed product" as you said, Toei/Bandai would just pretend it never existed and that never happened.

[HeroR]

That isn’t an opinion. GT is factually a failed produce. Evolution Is a failure because it bombed at the box office. Quality has nothing to do with failure. Dumbo, a Disney classic, was a failure when it released, the same with Bambi.

GT failure kept anything new from Dragon Ball until Online and Heroes, and game sells stagnated after awhile.

It isn't. You can keep telling that to yourself if you want, DB franchise after GT end was still big at time and kept growing popular as the years go by.

It was a show that draw less attention and much less impactful than Super? Yes, I not denying that, but is far from be the cause of franchise being "inactive" for a decade.

If GT was a "factually failed product" as you said, Toei/Bandai would just pretend it never existed and that never happened.

In the overseas, maybe. In Japan, Dragon Ball stagnated after GT.

Out of everything GT, the only thing regularly acknowledge is Super Saiyan 4. GT stuff wasn’t even in Xenoverse, it was added as DLC and Xenoverse 2 added no new GT stuff like Baby whose Golden Great Ape form is a raid boss.

I never said GT was the cause. But it was the beginning of the franchise going into basic stasis and Toei not even attempting a new Dragon Ball series without Toriyama. That’s actually how we got Kai.

[Neon Z]

Yeah, go back and check game releases. Dragonball just came to an absolute halt after GT. There were a couple of final Z games that were already in development (like Dragonball Z Legends) and then nothing else until the Budokai series almost a decade later, which is when a revival started. And Budokai 1 was developed with the international market in mind not Japan, so that was a happy byproduct.

[RedHeat]

One of the most probable main reasons for GT's demise was because it wasn't making Toei enough money, which can also be linked to the quality of the show. Nonetheless, we'll likely never know the real trigger but there's already tons of solid theories out there anyways.

[Lord Frieza]

On the subject of a next generation style story. It can work, the problem is pulling it of in a way that matters.

to do a follow on story is similar to doing a prequel story. Its a step forward but it also has to be a step backwards as well. If your going to have the likes of Uub, Pan, Trunks and Goten taking over are going to have to have the story take a massive step backwards from were it its now for the progression to have any real meaning. You can't just dump Uub in stories about galaxy threatening demons and gods, in this regard GT did have the right idea just executed badly. The younger caste need to be give their own adventures on earth and in the universe and maybe even other universes but it has to be done in a natural way. A big problem with many next generation stories is that the characters get turned in Mary Sues in order to get them powerful enough to face foes as powerful or more so then their parents did. Yes the kids are pretty dame strong now but I would not like to see them tackling threats like Frieza right out of the gate, also if your going to have the old cast get old, let them get older and by extension weaker. That way you don't have to explain why Goku doesn't just curbstomp the new and lesser bad guys anymore.

As already stated DB would be at something of an advantage over other series as the kids are we'll established to being pretty strong to begin with, so we don't have to do a full start from scratch story but as I've made clear above they need to be given time and threats to allow them to grow naturally.

Hell if Frieza makes it passed the end and gets revived proper I'd be very please to see him play big bad again but what I don't want to see is him being turned into the first guy they need to beat. I'd want about 2 full arcs before the kids were even close to that kind of threat.

[HeroR]

On the subject of a next generation style story. It can work, the problem is pulling it of in a way that matters.

to do a follow on story is similar to doing a prequel story. Its a step forward but it also has to be a step backwards as well. If your going to have the likes of Uub, Pan, Trunks and Goten taking over are going to have to have the story take a massive step backwards from were it its now for the progression to have any real meaning. You can't just dump Uub in stories about galaxy threatening demons and gods, in this regard GT did have the right idea just executed badly. The younger caste need to be give their own adventures on earth and in the universe and maybe even other universes but it has to be done in a natural way. A big problem with many next generation stories is that the characters get turned in Mary Sues in order to get them powerful enough to face foes as powerful or more so then their parents did. Yes the kids are pretty dame strong now but I would not like to see them tackling threats like Frieza right out of the gate, also if your going to have the old cast get old, let them get older and by extension weaker. That way you don't have to explain why Goku doesn't just curbstomp the new and lesser bad guys anymore.

As already stated DB would be at something of an advantage over other series as the kids are we'll established to being pretty strong to begin with, so we don't have to do a full start from scratch story but as I've made clear above they need to be given time and threats to allow them to grow naturally.

Hell if Frieza makes it passed the end and gets revived proper I'd be very please to see him play big bad again but what I don't want to see is him being turned into the first guy they need to beat. I'd want about 2 full arcs before the kids were even close to that kind of threat.

Dragon Ball already did a 'next generation' type of story without going backwards, but instead went forward. Namely, Gohan in Z.

[Lord Frieza]

On the subject of a next generation style story. It can work, the problem is pulling it of in a way that matters.

to do a follow on story is similar to doing a prequel story. Its a step forward but it also has to be a step backwards as well. If your going to have the likes of Uub, Pan, Trunks and Goten taking over are going to have to have the story take a massive step backwards from were it its now for the progression to have any real meaning. You can't just dump Uub in stories about galaxy threatening demons and gods, in this regard GT did have the right idea just executed badly. The younger caste need to be give their own adventures on earth and in the universe and maybe even other universes but it has to be done in a natural way. A big problem with many next generation stories is that the characters get turned in Mary Sues in order to get them powerful enough to face foes as powerful or more so then their parents did. Yes the kids are pretty dame strong now but I would not like to see them tackling threats like Frieza right out of the gate, also if your going to have the old cast get old, let them get older and by extension weaker. That way you don't have to explain why Goku doesn't just curbstomp the new and lesser bad guys anymore.

As already stated DB would be at something of an advantage over other series as the kids are we'll established to being pretty strong to begin with, so we don't have to do a full start from scratch story but as I've made clear above they need to be given time and threats to allow them to grow naturally.

Hell if Frieza makes it passed the end and gets revived proper I'd be very please to see him play big bad again but what I don't want to see is him being turned into the first guy they need to beat. I'd want about 2 full arcs before the kids were even close to that kind of threat.

Dragon Ball already did a 'next generation' type of story without going backwards, but instead went forward. Namely, Gohan in Z.

Gohan was one child who never really took the spotlight from the main cast. He just got added to them. Gohan also only held his own becuase he was given is rage boost and potential, something that would be pretty broken if not kept in check by his soft nature and even the Gohan was out of his league almost right up until his fight with Cell with every villain putting him right back in his place after his little tantrums. Gohan also had the benifit being a child growing up with other older and strongets caste members to carry other aspects of the plot for him that he could not. Even in the Buu saga the kids always have the older cast and the true hero hanging over them, insure that they are hamstringed from really holding the story in any meaningful way.

If there is to be a complete changing of the guard, with at most only Piccolo and Gohan really being the one left over (in both cases due to age) Uub, Pan, Trunk, Bra and Goten all need time for character development, group dynmaic development and time to make us the audiance accept them. That is made hell of a lot easier when our suspension of disbelief is not over taxed by the kids pulling even more insain crap then whats going on in Super right now.

I'm my no means saying we hit the big restart button, Goten and Trunks alone are to powerful for that, but what we need is pull back the scale of the story a bit to keep thing reltively beliveble. For example do any of us really want to start a story arc with these character being perfect pals right of the bate fighting GoD level threats? Gohan spent most of the Saiyan being almost dead weight while the heroes were fighting for their lives against a foe that could kill them at any moment. Could you imagine how the story would have played out if Gohan's little rage power allowed him to curbstomp Nappa then hold his own with Vegeta until Goku got there.

[HeroR]

On the subject of a next generation style story. It can work, the problem is pulling it of in a way that matters.

to do a follow on story is similar to doing a prequel story. Its a step forward but it also has to be a step backwards as well. If your going to have the likes of Uub, Pan, Trunks and Goten taking over are going to have to have the story take a massive step backwards from were it its now for the progression to have any real meaning. You can't just dump Uub in stories about galaxy threatening demons and gods, in this regard GT did have the right idea just executed badly. The younger caste need to be give their own adventures on earth and in the universe and maybe even other universes but it has to be done in a natural way. A big problem with many next generation stories is that the characters get turned in Mary Sues in order to get them powerful enough to face foes as powerful or more so then their parents did. Yes the kids are pretty dame strong now but I would not like to see them tackling threats like Frieza right out of the gate, also if your going to have the old cast get old, let them get older and by extension weaker. That way you don't have to explain why Goku doesn't just curbstomp the new and lesser bad guys anymore.

As already stated DB would be at something of an advantage over other series as the kids are we'll established to being pretty strong to begin with, so we don't have to do a full start from scratch story but as I've made clear above they need to be given time and threats to allow them to grow naturally.

Hell if Frieza makes it passed the end and gets revived proper I'd be very please to see him play big bad again but what I don't want to see is him being turned into the first guy they need to beat. I'd want about 2 full arcs before the kids were even close to that kind of threat.

Dragon Ball already did a 'next generation' type of story without going backwards, but instead went forward. Namely, Gohan in Z.

Gohan was one child who never really took the spotlight from the main cast. He just got added to them. Gohan also only held his own becuase he was given is rage boost and potential, something that would be pretty broken if not kept in check by his soft nature and even the Gohan was out of his league almost right up until his fight with Cell with every villain putting him right back in his place after his little tantrums. Gohan also had the benifit being a child growing up with other older and strongets caste members to carry other aspects of the plot for him that he could not. Even in the Buu saga the kids always have the older cast and the true hero hanging over them, insure that they are hamstringed from really holding the story in any meaningful way.

If there is to be a complete changing of the guard, with at most only Piccolo and Gohan really being the one left over (in both cases due to age) Uub, Pan, Trunk, Bra and Goten all need time for character development, group dynmaic development and time to make us the audiance accept them. That is made hell of a lot easier when our suspension of disbelief is not over taxed by the kids pulling even more insain crap then whats going on in Super right now.

I'm my no means saying we hit the big restart button, Goten and Trunks alone are to powerful for that, but what we need is pull back the scale of the story a bit to keep thing reltively beliveble. For example do any of us really want to start a story arc with these character being perfect pals right of the bate fighting GoD level threats? Gohan spent most of the Saiyan being almost dead weight while the heroes were fighting for their lives against a foe that could kill them at any moment. Could you imagine how the story would have played out if Gohan's little rage power allowed him to curbstomp Nappa then hold his own with Vegeta until Goku got there.

So you're talking a full generation jumped. If that's the case, I prefer they go more Jo Jo, than Boruto. Jo Jo don't restart the power scale between generation.

[ShadowBardock89]

Out of everything GT, the only thing regularly acknowledge is Super Saiyan 4.
GT stuff wasn’t even in Xenoverse, it was added as DLC and Xenoverse 2 added no new GT stuff like Baby whose Golden Great Ape form is a raid boss.

Umm.... SS4 Goku, SS4 Gogeta, Super 17, and Yī Xīng Lóng/Omega Shenron were in the base game of Xenoverse.

Besides, GT characters besides the SS4 forms have been in the Budokai series (including Infinite World) and the Budokai Tenkaichi series, plus there was Dragon Ball GT Transformation.

[Lord Frieza]

So you're talking a full generation jumped. If that's the case, I prefer they go more Jo Jo, than Boruto. Jo Jo don't restart the power scale between generation.

While Jo Jo didn’t do this, and I do love the series, I did created problems down the line. Part 5 has some rediculussly powerful stands with some of the most broken power ever requiring some pretty convenient things to happen for the heroes to win.

Even in Star Dust Crusad, The Worlds time power is only truly beaten because the main character pulls time stopping out his ass and gets a rage boost.

As far as I’m awaire, Stone Ocean has to dile back the characters powers at least in the beginning and Steel Ball Run did the same and even took place in an alternate timeline.

Naruto and abortion are not the best examples as I find that the series never could properly balance the generation power gaps. A better example would be One Piece.

Just from personal reading it tends to creates a lot less problems from a narrative perspective if you dile down the scale of things for the newbies. I fact due to how things have grown way of the chart between The Buu arc and Super, it’s practically maditory if they want to give Buu any realistic chance of progression. Even if he’s made as powerful as Kid Buu of the bat, he needs some time to get to the point that he can fight someone like current Frieza.

[HeroR]

So you're talking a full generation jumped. If that's the case, I prefer they go more Jo Jo, than Boruto. Jo Jo don't restart the power scale between generation.

While Jo Jo didn’t do this, and I do love the series, I did created problems down the line. Part 5 has some rediculussly powerful stands with some of the most broken power ever requiring some pretty convenient things to happen for the heroes to win.

Even in Star Dust Crusad, The Worlds time power is only truly beaten because the main character pulls time stopping out his ass and gets a rage boost.

As far as I’m awaire, Stone Ocean has to dile back the characters powers at least in the beginning and Steel Ball Run did the same and even took place in an alternate timeline.

Naruto and abortion are not the best examples as I find that the series never could properly balance the generation power gaps. A better example would be One Piece.

Just from personal reading it tends to creates a lot less problems from a narrative perspective if you dile down the scale of things for the newbies. I fact due to how things have grown way of the chart between The Buu arc and Super, it’s practically maditory if they want to give Buu any realistic chance of progression. Even if he’s made as powerful as Kid Buu of the bat, he needs some time to get to the point that he can fight someone like current Frieza.

One Piece isn't really a generation story since we knew nothing about the old guard until much, much later in the story.

And who say they would make Buu important? Do you mean Uub?

Out of everything GT, the only thing regularly acknowledge is Super Saiyan 4.
GT stuff wasn’t even in Xenoverse, it was added as DLC and Xenoverse 2 added no new GT stuff like Baby whose Golden Great Ape form is a raid boss.

Umm.... SS4 Goku, SS4 Gogeta, Super 17, and Yī Xīng Lóng/Omega Shenron were in the base game of Xenoverse.

Besides, GT characters besides the SS4 forms have been in the Budokai series (including Infinite World) and the Budokai Tenkaichi series, plus there was Dragon Ball GT Transformation.

Budokai didn't get GT stuff until about three. The first game only went up to the Cell Games and the second game only covered half of the Buu Saga. Budokai Tenkaichi had almost every character under the sun including Fasha and the main character of Dr. Slump.

[TheMikado]

They don’t have the guts to connect a failed and very popular produced with a successful one? Most wouldn’t.

GT figures that until today as the new content on Heroes too, some fans consider to be superior than Super, so I don't see how is a failed product, bad? Yes, but that's subjective.

Well, what other options are there that would excite the fanbase on the same level as new Z (and Super) sequel? I could see Future Trunks spinoff anime being popular, but it would never be seen as the true main continuation of the story (unless it actually featured the entire cast heavily and directly followed EOZ)

They can always do plenty of movies and OVAs, don't know why fans are in such a urge for a new anime series, I would be just fine if the franchise took a pause on that, we waited 18 years for Super after all.

Some fans thinking GT is better than Super doesn’t changed the fact that GT is a failed produced that actually put the franchise to sleep for a decade. Even then, most what is sold for GT is Super Saiyan 4 and almost nothing else. In fact, GT figures are being sold under Super’s name, not GT.

Z products are also being sold under Super so by your evidence Z is a failed product as well.

[TheMikado]

Out of everything GT, the only thing regularly acknowledge is Super Saiyan 4.
GT stuff wasn’t even in Xenoverse, it was added as DLC and Xenoverse 2 added no new GT stuff like Baby whose Golden Great Ape form is a raid boss.

Umm.... SS4 Goku, SS4 Gogeta, Super 17, and Yī Xīng Lóng/Omega Shenron were in the base game of Xenoverse.

Besides, GT characters besides the SS4 forms have been in the Budokai series (including Infinite World) and the Budokai Tenkaichi series, plus there was Dragon Ball GT Transformation.

Look the guy obviously has no idea what he's talking about.