Character Bashing Topic

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SaiyaMel
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Post by SaiyaMel » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:23 am

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:
SaiyaMel wrote:Goku has made some questionable and at times not-so-smart moves,,, he gets crapped on a lot by fans but i don't think he deserves a lot of it...same with Yamcha.
I never had a problem with Gokou himself so much as the fact that he always HAD to save everyone. I blame the fans more than Toriyama-Sensei for that, though, considering how many times he tried to thrust Gohan into the spotlight. Sure Gokou as a character has a lot of flaws by today's standards, but back in the era of DBZ characters like that weren't terribly uncommon, so I don't think he's a bad character at all...just the fact that he is ALWAYS the hero is annoying as all Hell (one look at Movie #13's title says it all, that even as the series wound its way out, EVEN IN A MOVIE THAT WAS NEARLY FLAWLESS (except for that brain-breaking shit they pulled with Trunks' sword that...does...not...make...sense...@_@;;; ) AND CONDUCTED ITS PLOT IN A WAY THAT GOKOU DID NOT HAVE TO WIN, THEY MADE HIM WIN ANYWAYS!!! KRAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

The concept enrages me...but not Gokou himself.
*Nods*
That's a big reason why i don't like GT.. the way he's used in the series further soils Goku's reputation among ignorant, less understanding fans. :x

Back in the day,, the Made From Goats site used to really piss me off - cause of all the Goku bashing. :lol: i reacted to it in the same manner those Vegeta fanatics did/do to the Vegeta The Wuss site.. i felt like sending the MFG founders/staff a lot of hate-mail. :lol:
Last edited by SaiyaMel on Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Chuquita
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Post by Chuquita » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:36 am

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:Something amusing:
Chuquita wrote:That, and you can't make up hilariously uncomfortable situations like the fusion point created by the portara earrings.
Seriously, the crotch? Really?? XD
Image

I'd love to know what that says. XD

Seriously, you know Vegeta would be upset and uncomfortable about that (especially because Goku never explained HOW they would fuse), but he never says anything about it afterwards.


I'm sure after watching the the kais fuse with the earrings, Goku must have made a mental note not to inform Vegeta because he would've refused.
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Post by dchan316 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:22 am

Chuquita wrote:Only thing I didn't like is how Goku took off with Uubu at the end. I would've rather he trained Uubu at Mount Paozu so he could continue living with his family. He's the teacher, make his student come to him, not the other way around. o_O
Even Roshi had Goku and Kuririn come to his home to train.
Well, if you look at Neko Majin Z (though, being a parody, might not really count), Uub is living with the Son family. I like this version, ahaha...

And, yea, I really enjoyed the Buu arc too, even though it gets much bashing.

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Post by Maphisto86 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:19 am

FindKenshi wrote:My favorite character is Freeza, and... I'm quite the fanatic about him. Unfortunatly, the treatment he's recieved in America from both Ocean and Funimation causes... quite a few American DBZ fans to completly misjudge his character. I mostly just shrug off Freeza-bashing though. The character is pretty much designed to be hated. There's plenty of reasons I myself can think of bashing Freeza without even touching on his voice.

He cut himself with his own attack, he begged for his life, he went crying to daddy, ect. So yeah, bashing doesn't really bug me in that regard. But I still cringe whenever I hear Linda Young. She'll never begin to measure up to Ryūsei Nakao's epic performance.
I hear you loud and clear bro! 8) Freeza is definitely my favorite villian in all of Dragonball, yet because of his feminine appearance (and even more feminine portrayal by the Ocean and FUNI dubs) there are many fans out there who are just homophobic about the character.

While I don't really cringe at Linda Young's portrayal of Freeza, I do think she could do better. Make Freeza more masculine and regal. Ryusei Nakao's performance is absolutely amazing.... so it is hard to fault someone not exactly filling his shoes in the role of the alien tyrant.
Many other characters I think are overlooked include Kuririn, Choutzu, Yamcha, Yajirobe, Dende, and Raditz (to name a few).
dchan316 wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Only thing I didn't like is how Goku took off with Uubu at the end. I would've rather he trained Uubu at Mount Paozu so he could continue living with his family. He's the teacher, make his student come to him, not the other way around. o_O
Even Roshi had Goku and Kuririn come to his home to train.
Well, if you look at Neko Majin Z (though, being a parody, might not really count), Uub is living with the Son family. I like this version, ahaha...

And, yea, I really enjoyed the Buu arc too, even though it gets much bashing.
Heh, I liked all the saga's and would not have preferred the storyline ending prematurely as was originally intended.

Since I usually count GT as non canon, I believe Son Goku trained Uub both at Uub's home village and at the Son house, alternating living between the two locations while traveling to the wilderness to do some serious sparring.

While Son Goku is not exactly the best family man, I would like to think he would pay back Chi-Chi and the family all the lonesome years when he was dead. Not to mention the fact that Uub seems close to his family so he wouldn't just let Goku take him for years on end to strange places. Then again there is the Piccolo school of training.... :lol:

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:49 pm

Maphisto86 wrote:Many other characters I think are overlooked include Kuririn, Choutzu, Yamcha, Yajirobe, Dende, and Raditz (to name a few).
I personally think that Raditz was the most overlooked character in the entire series.

Think about it. He was Goku's brother, for God's sake. Considering what they did with Goku/Gohan and even just Goku/Vegeta (the latter a relationship built between utter strangers), I think that there was an incredible potential to make something out of Goku/Raditz. Raditz could have been a viable option for the "rival" role that Vegeta ended up taking, only it would be coming from a more intensed, focused viewpoint.


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Post by Godo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:10 pm

I think Toriyama let Raditz be killed because of that he was too hard to draw with his long hair.
But I would love him to have replaced Vegeta.

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Post by Tamagon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:15 pm

Rocketman I know you are usually kidding regarding Gohan comments, but remember, Gohan trained a year with a demon that almost beat his father's ass, and later trained with his father for a year.

...Though on the other hand, Goku recieved 3 years of training with the God of Earth, and 3 years of training with Kaiou-sama, and still couldn't beat Cell.

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Post by Chuquita » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:52 pm

Godo wrote:I think Toriyama let Raditz be killed because of that he was too hard to draw with his long hair.
But I would love him to have replaced Vegeta.

Killed off because his hair was difficult to draw? What a terrible way to go. ^_^;;
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Post by caejones » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:59 pm

Hmm, now I want to write a character analysis paper on Raditz. Instead I'll just settle for this post.

Considering that Raditz bears family connections to Goku, it's pretty strange that he just dies and disappears within hours of his arrival--less than six episodes in the anime, a few pages in the manga (the one DBZ manga I actually own is the Raditz fight... well, most of it... I forget if the whole thing is in that one book), and if we try to make sense of the time that passes in the story... it is well under a day between Raditz's arrival on Earth and his death.

So, what depth do we get with Raditz? It's brutally clear how different he is from Goku--all about the killing, the destruction, even willing to take out his brother and young nephew to prove how ruthless he is. But that's not all, is it? Raditz seems to care about the fact that he and "Kakarot" are of saiyan origin; he seems intent on convincing his brother that because they are both saiyans, they must follow the same path. Goku, however, doesn't care at all about his race or his heritage--he is his own person, and he isn't about to kill innocents just because some rich alien asked him to.
Then there are the similarities--but these similarities accent a few differences. For example, Raditz and Goku both have ridiculously big hair--but Raditz's is bigger and flows down his back. In early DB (first appearances) Goku spent a lot of time with minimal clothing; Raditz doesn't seem to wear anything but boots, underwear and chest armor... but Goku never went around in underwear and armor--it was all or nothing (unless weighted clothing comes into the picture), and he certainly didn't wear anything to protect himself in battle; and with Raditz, his exposed legs and arms accent his muscle tone and added to his status as a strong, barbaric killer. Naked Goku accented Goku's innocence and made for cutesy humor--quite the contrast! Goku's hair makes him look goofy--Raditz's hair makes him look like a warrior. Goku eats fiercely because he's a bottomless pit of energy... and it's always a mildly disturbing, though typically comical scene when we see him attack a meal. When we see Raditz eat, it's very cold and further accents the barbaric aspect--when Goku is out in the woods catching his own food, he makes it into a game. . . not so with Raditz.
What else does Raditz do? What purpose does he serve? He introduces Goku's heritage, introduces a race of enemies and sets up a plotline that will lead to a great many things--Nappa, Vegeta, even Freeza are all initiated by Raditz... and each of these is pivotal to the story as it unfolds. He also serves to provide a situation in which Gohan can show his hidden powers, and for Goku to be killed and thus receive the training necessary to save the day when it next needs saving...
But beyond plot mechanics, Raditz serves to show us many things. Goku was always different from his enemies in the past, but never had their relationship with him gone deeper than Tsuru Sen'nin's vengeful desires upon hearing of Goku's defeat of TaoPaipai, or Piccolo Daimao reincarnating himself to continue his fight with Goku... who only fought him because he was killing people. But with Raditz, it's all about Goku--Raditz quite literally comes to the door and tries to drag Goku into a life that is completely opposite of what he has become. We know that Goku isn't going to join him without question--but we are still shown many things along the way. We see that Piccolo can change; we see the possibility of rivals joining forces to face a common threat; we see that regardless of what Raditz may say about his family connection to Goku or their race, he is still just another threat, and he starts the trend of saiya(ji)n pride leading to defeat--though not so extreme as in later cases, Raditz completely underestimates Gohan and the power of Goku and Piccolo as a team. He is also surprised that Goku would sacrifice his life just to defeat one threat, whereas Raditz is willing to sacrifice his dignity to doop a good guy like Goku into releasing him from the jaws of death. Essentially, Raditz shows us that it doesn't matter who you're related to, what race you come from, or even how superior you are to the best--you'll still wind up meeting a dishonorable end if you walk the path of evil.
The fact that Raditz dies and disappears so quickly, even though he is a blood relation of the main character accents his main theme even further. So, he's Goku's brother. But that doesn't mean anything to Goku--he's still just an evil brute trying to spread destruction and force others to become someone they aren't because of something over which they have no power. And we know what Goku does to wanna-be serial killers... so Raditz's disappearance after his defeat follows the same theme as the entire Saiya(ji)n race: it doesn't matter who you're related to, what race you are, or what class you're from... you're still an individual, and your choices will shape your destiny.

... That said, more Raditz would have been awesome. :D
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Post by Thanos6 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:08 pm

*hangs up a sign, with the painted words A DEFENSE OF YAMCHA, COMING SOON*
Trunks & Goten forever

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Post by Carrie » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:14 pm

*Throws darts at Thanos' sign.* :twisted:
[quote="Rocketman"]
He (Gohan) is weaker. He has the fighting spirit of a wet noodle soaked in water until it barely resembles a noodle. A pebble is tougher than Gohan, because you could conceivably trip on a rock and stub your toe, while Gohan would yield like so much melted pudding. Vanilla pudding. Because he's too pansy-ass to have a strong flavor if he was pudding. Pure water has more flavor than hypothetical Gohan-pudding.

.... I think I lost where I was going there.[/quote]

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Post by Kaboom » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:18 pm

*Launches grenade at Thanos' sign* :twisted:
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Post by Thanos6 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:21 pm

*hurriedly weaves a Spider-Man like webbat to catch the darts and nullify the grenade*
Trunks & Goten forever

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Post by NeptuneKai » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:42 pm

*Licks Thano's sign*
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Post by SaiyaMel » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:56 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:I personally think that Raditz was the most overlooked character in the entire series.

Think about it. He was Goku's brother, for God's sake. Considering what they did with Goku/Gohan and even just Goku/Vegeta (the latter a relationship built between utter strangers), I think that there was an incredible potential to make something out of Goku/Raditz. Raditz could have been a viable option for the "rival" role that Vegeta ended up taking, only it would be coming from a more intensed, focused viewpoint.


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Yea. i like Vegeta and all,, but that would have been cool. or better yet (as the Saiya-jin nut that i am) - imagine if both took on the rival-to-ally role.. 8)
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Post by Rocketman » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:47 am

Tamagon wrote:Gohan trained a year ... later trained with his father for a year.
In which he goes from being weaker than first form Freeza to second most powerful being in the universe.

:evil:

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Post by Suupaa Gohan 2 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:42 am

Godo wrote:I think Toriyama let Raditz be killed because of that he was too hard to draw with his long hair.
But I would love him to have replaced Vegeta.
I always loved the fact that he randomly had that leg ring. It's never explained, so it's just like, WTF? It's just there. And most people don't even realize it's there. But I think it's pretty cool.

Radditz would probably be my favorite really overlooked/killed off character because like Lemmy said, he had a lot of potential that never got used. Several years ago me and a friend were working on a Doujinshi project (obviously never finished, and thank God, I was like, 15, and looking back there was some terrible artwork/excuse for 'humor'...though me being me some of it still cracks me up) and the first story involved Gokou bringing Radditz and Bardock back to life just for the Hell of it...because...it was a fan Doujinshi...and I wanted the whole family to be in it. I had a lot of fun doing Radditz, personally, and if I had to pick two random characters were were basically one-off in that sense for me it'd be Radditz and Bardock.
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Post by Carrie » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:28 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote: I always loved the fact that he randomly had that leg ring. It's never explained, so it's just like, WTF? It's just there. And most people don't even realize it's there. But I think it's pretty cool.
He's got another one on his left arm, too. Maybe that's his good side? Or it's supposed to remind him to do something, like tying a string around your finger?
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Last edited by Carrie on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[quote="Rocketman"]
He (Gohan) is weaker. He has the fighting spirit of a wet noodle soaked in water until it barely resembles a noodle. A pebble is tougher than Gohan, because you could conceivably trip on a rock and stub your toe, while Gohan would yield like so much melted pudding. Vanilla pudding. Because he's too pansy-ass to have a strong flavor if he was pudding. Pure water has more flavor than hypothetical Gohan-pudding.

.... I think I lost where I was going there.[/quote]

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Post by Godo » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:31 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:
Godo wrote:I think Toriyama let Raditz be killed because of that he was too hard to draw with his long hair.
But I would love him to have replaced Vegeta.
I always loved the fact that he randomly had that leg ring. It's never explained, so it's just like, WTF? It's just there. And most people don't even realize it's there. But I think it's pretty cool.
He is Raditz - Warrior Princess! I think it's cool too. Maybe Toriyama drew it because otherwise Raditz thighs, naked and all would look, well, naked, and noone would watch his hair, only his muscular thighs.
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:I had a lot of fun doing Radditz...
That's just wrong.

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Post by Suupaa Gohan 2 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 pm

Carrie wrote:He's got another one on his left arm, too. Maybe that's his good side? Or it's supposed to remind him to do something, like tying a string around your finger?
Thing is we'll never know because he was so @#$% useless. Honestly, a lot of DB Doujinshi are out there at times, but I really enjoy some of the humorous stories involving Radditz and Bardock - especially the ones that don't take place when they would have been alive, but those crazy unexplained time paradox ones that are just like...WTF. I think they say a lot for character interaction that could have been.
Godo wrote:
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:I had a lot of fun doing Radditz...

That's just wrong.
You know...I have a friend here at school, Russell, who prides himself in taking out-of-context comments and making them really, really wrong...and not in the lame 'that's what she said' way, but he's quite good at it. I've been walking right into them for a while now, so...yeah, it kinda fails me how I didn't see this one coming.
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