"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

Hopefully the manga takes time to explain jiren and belmod's connection/ how he got so strong and what his wish is. The anime could tell us this stuff in episode 130 but considering the past two episodes have expounded nothing more on his story, I have doubts 130 will be anything other than Goku's swan song

The anime explained Belmod's connection to Jiren. He found out about Jiren's desire for power above all and was touched and impressed

That’s too basic for me atleast . Did belmod train him or what? What is their relationship like? I know more about ribrianne than the antagonist of this arc

DB has been like that for awhile. Freeza had a basic backstory. Vegeta did too until Freeza was invented. Hell we still don't know much of 17 and 18. Even Dr Gero didn't have much more besides "used to be RRA and hates Goku"
Who the hell is Bibidi and Babidi? What more is there to Hit besides the fact that he's an assassin, etc.
While it'd be nice for Jiren to have a deep backstory, it's really nothing out of the usual for it to stay basic

[Zephyr]

He absolutely is. Although Zeno is explained to have been dissatisfied with the number of Universes on his own, Goku definitely expedited the move to consolidate.

Goku speeded things up but the arc would happen eventually, which is what I was saying.

You should consider this as well:

Besides, if anyone is truly to blame for the Tournament of Power, it's Beerus and Champa. Zeno decided to hold the tournament because he was inspired by their petty feud

So, Goku interacting with Zen'ou doesn't lead to anything in and of itself.

I know it's semantics, but: The "arc" is specifically about the tournament between all of the universes. No Goku reminding Zeno about a tournament, no arc. The erasure of the universe was (probably) going to happen anyway, though (and I'm sure that's what you mean).

Yeah, Beerus and Champa are partially to blame. And Bulma's partially to blame, because her ramen is what exacerbated the feud to having their little tournament in the first place. Trunks is to blame for creating a timeline where Goku would live long enough for Beerus to wake up and investigate his prophecy and for Whis to eventually train him. And so on. We can keep going back forever and say "this is the real person responsible", when the culpability is collective.

The anime does temporarily see Beerus regret keeping Goku around, so he's in a big way inadvertently preemptively taking some responsibility for it. Regardless, Goku still brought two Zeno together, and without that, the move to erase the universes wouldn't have happened as soon. There's no way to know if or when the one would have actually gotten around to doing it otherwise. All we know is that at least 17 more years would have passed.

[Miracles]

Hopefully the manga takes time to explain jiren and belmod's connection/ how he got so strong and what his wish is. The anime could tell us this stuff in episode 130 but considering the past two episodes have expounded nothing more on his story, I have doubts 130 will be anything other than Goku's swan song

The anime explained Belmod's connection to Jiren. He found out about Jiren's desire for power above all and was touched and impressed

That’s too basic for me atleast . Did belmod train him or what? What is their relationship like? I know more about ribrianne than the antagonist of this arc

You're just nosy.

DB has been like that for awhile. Freeza had a basic backstory. Vegeta did too until Freeza was invented. Hell we still don't know much of 17 and 18. Even Dr Gero didn't have much more besides "used to be RRA and hates Goku"
Who the hell is Bibidi and Babidi? What more is there to Hit besides the fact that he's an assassin, etc.
While it'd be nice for Jiren to have a deep backstory, it's really nothing out of the usual for it to stay basic

You've seen Dragonball before.

[batistabus]

The anime does temporarily see Beerus regret keeping Goku around, so he's in a big way inadvertently preemptively taking some responsibility for it.

Beerus makes a similar comment in the manga as well.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[STH]

It's not a plothole because there's no contradiction, nothing limits Goku from learning the Hakai. Your reason why was made up by yourself, there's no such limitation in the manga. Even your on reason is wrong because technically Goku's is a Hakaishin candidate since Whis invited him.

It's a plothole, because Goku can't copy something he never saw or know about something he was never told. Well in this case he did and that's a plothole.

Goku trains under Whis, but he refused to be a GoD candidate. Unlike Toppo, he never was officially appointed as one either. They asked him about it and he refused.
That's like saying Goku is a candidate to be Earth's God, because Kami asked him to be one. The moment he refuses, he's no longer a candidate.

Isn't it called Mimicry? Like how Goku and Tien easily learn the Kamehameha and Mafuuba?

It could be, but there are two problems here:
1 - Goku never watched Beerus' Hakai in the manga. How can you copy something you never saw?! You can't.
2 - There's a big difference between copy "normal" ki attacks like Kamehameha and Mafuba and something that can literally erase everything you want.

A quotation from;
https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattl ... ds_a_card/

"But is it is implied that he saw it off-screen in the manga. Right before he uses hakai he says: "Lord Beerus! I'm sorry I called your technique horrible. But I'll be using it now!!"
In chapter 15, before Goku's battle with Zamasu, Beerus mentions how easy it is being a god of destruction and how all he has to do is destroy planets. Goku goes on to say: "Forget it! I can't do something horrible like that!" To which Beerus relies: "Horrible...?"


"

[Kogu 87]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

[majinwarman]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

I forgot that the new chapter just randomly brought up Frost being an emperor. I wonder why this information wasn't stated in the Champa Arc when Frost was introduced.

[LightBing]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

I forgot that the new chapter just randomly brought up Frost being an emperor. I wonder why this information wasn't stated in the Champa Arc when Frost was introduced.

It probably wasn't specified by Mr.Toriyama. Toyotarõ must have liked it and copied it from the anime.

[jeffbr92]

It will be quite a easy task for Toyotaro making Jiren far more interesting than his anime counterpart, I'm interested about it.

[Rhuagh]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

Most likely an editorial decision to tie the manga to the anime in more ways. The alternative cover for Vol. 5 supports this idea.

In the manga Frost was neither evil nor an emperor. Just the strongest fighter in the universe (besides Hit), and didn't like being used by the gods. Now suddenly he is a tyrant ruler who likes to torture people. A copy of Freeza, like in the anime.

[alakazam^]

The only reason the arc is happening is because there are 2 Zenos. That only happened because of Goku. So it's still his fault either way

The Future Trunks arc empirically proves and dispels the myth that the ToP would have occurred without Goku, at least within the 20 years which we saw into the future.

Without two Zenos and the idea of a tournament, none of this happens.

First, there is no fault here. Zen'ou decides what happens with the Universes as he sees fit. There is only accountability, of which Goku has none.

Holding a tournament and erasing Universes are different actions, one does not lead to the other. The tournament between every Universe was decided when Zen'ou witnessed the Beers/Champa one (a tournament that wasn't Goku's idea) and no Universe erasing was talked about. Zeno's decision, Goku wasn't a factor.

Trunks happened and Zen'ou gained a friend. The tournament was still decided and no Universe erasing was talked about. Goku brought the future Zen'ou, nothing changed.

(Anime) Time passes, Zen'ous are bored and there are too many Universes. Goku goes to ask about the tournament and is told to wait for details. The Grand Priest reveals that losing Universes are to be erased and the winner will remain. Goku went to ask about the tournament, Zen'ou decided all the rest.

Trunks' future: No Universe erased and no Tournament of Power. This shows us that, by that time, Zen'ou wouldn't have erased anything and that no Beers/Champa tournament was held.

From this, there's no evidence of a second Zen'ou being the catalyst for the Universe erasure since that could have happened anytime between him arriving to the past and Goku asking about the tournament. There's also no evidence of Goku being responsible because he never suggests Universes should be erased, he just mentioned a simple tournament, one that was promised because of the earlier tournament he participated in. In no way he forced the Zen'ous to include that in the rules.

If you still insist that Goku is responsible, you should remember that 8 Universes were to be erased and, because of the tournament, only 7 will be. So, you can't both praise and blame Goku for it.

I know it's semantics, but: The "arc" is specifically about the tournament between all of the universes. No Goku reminding Zeno about a tournament, no arc. The erasure of the universe was (probably) going to happen anyway, though (and I'm sure that's what you mean).

Yeah, Beerus and Champa are partially to blame. And Bulma's partially to blame, because her ramen is what exacerbated the feud to having their little tournament in the first place. Trunks is to blame for creating a timeline where Goku would live long enough for Beerus to wake up and investigate his prophecy and for Whis to eventually train him. And so on. We can keep going back forever and say "this is the real person responsible", when the culpability is collective.

I was refering to the tournament. That was going to happen eventually, as far as we know. Just like the Universes being erased but they can be mutually exclusive.

There's no need to go that back, we can pinpoint who's "to blame". Zen'ou wanted a tournament because he had fun watching Universe 6 against Universe 7. That tournament could only happen because both Beers and Champa agreed to it, their reasons for holding it do not matter. Thus, the answer is Beers and Champa.

The rest I already addressed.

[prince212]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

Most likely an editorial decision to tie the manga to the anime in more ways. The alternative cover for Vol. 5 supports this idea.

In the manga Frost was neither evil nor an emperor. Just the strongest fighter in the universe (besides Hit), and didn't like being used by the gods. Now suddenly he is a tyrant ruler who likes to torture people. A copy of Freeza, like in the anime.

Frost was introduced like a gentle guy ending up as a cheater in Champa arc ,now in last chapter just freeza asked him : “I assume you prefer to rule with an iron fist as well?” , and frost answer yes , we’ll get along well
Freeza is more sarcasm and evil , of course frost is not gonna act gentle again but just the way they were introduced makes them clearly different and it’s too soon to say that they are copies in the t.o.p ...., the anime showed them not as copies , because one trusted and the other one took advantage . If in the next chapter frost kick out some guy and torture him in a freeza style ... I’ll say yes , you guys are right

[Zephyr]

The tournament between every Universe was decided when Zen'ou witnessed the Beers/Champa one (a tournament that wasn't Goku's idea) and no Universe erasing was talked about. Zeno's decision, Goku wasn't a factor.

Goku was a factor in the Beerus/Champa tournament happening. Remember when it didn't happen in the timeline where Goku died?

you can't both praise and blame Goku for it.

I already did, actually.

[Miracles]

You know...It's no big deal whether Goku caused the tourney or not. Zenoh was thinking about wasting universes without hope but because of Gokum they now have a fighting chance.

[OLKv3]

The only reason the arc is happening is because there are 2 Zenos. That only happened because of Goku. So it's still his fault either way

The Future Trunks arc empirically proves and dispels the myth that the ToP would have occurred without Goku, at least within the 20 years which we saw into the future.

Without two Zenos and the idea of a tournament, none of this happens.

First, there is no fault here. Zen'ou decides what happens with the Universes as he sees fit. There is only accountability, of which Goku has none.

Holding a tournament and erasing Universes are different actions, one does not lead to the other. The tournament between every Universe was decided when Zen'ou witnessed the Beers/Champa one (a tournament that wasn't Goku's idea) and no Universe erasing was talked about. Zeno's decision, Goku wasn't a factor.

Trunks happened and Zen'ou gained a friend. The tournament was still decided and no Universe erasing was talked about. Goku brought the future Zen'ou, nothing changed.

(Anime) Time passes, Zen'ous are bored and there are too many Universes. Goku goes to ask about the tournament and is told to wait for details. The Grand Priest reveals that losing Universes are to be erased and the winner will remain. Goku went to ask about the tournament, Zen'ou decided all the rest.

Trunks' future: No Universe erased and no Tournament of Power. This shows us that, by that time, Zen'ou wouldn't have erased anything and that no Beers/Champa tournament was held.

From this, there's no evidence of a second Zen'ou being the catalyst for the Universe erasure since that could have happened anytime between him arriving to the past and Goku asking about the tournament. There's also no evidence of Goku being responsible because he never suggests Universes should be erased, he just mentioned a simple tournament, one that was promised because of the earlier tournament he participated in. In no way he forced the Zen'ous to include that in the rules.

If you still insist that Goku is responsible, you should remember that 8 Universes were to be erased and, because of the tournament, only 7 will be. So, you can't both praise and blame Goku for it.

I know it's semantics, but: The "arc" is specifically about the tournament between all of the universes. No Goku reminding Zeno about a tournament, no arc. The erasure of the universe was (probably) going to happen anyway, though (and I'm sure that's what you mean).

Yeah, Beerus and Champa are partially to blame. And Bulma's partially to blame, because her ramen is what exacerbated the feud to having their little tournament in the first place. Trunks is to blame for creating a timeline where Goku would live long enough for Beerus to wake up and investigate his prophecy and for Whis to eventually train him. And so on. We can keep going back forever and say "this is the real person responsible", when the culpability is collective.

I was refering to the tournament. That was going to happen eventually, as far as we know. Just like the Universes being erased but they can be mutually exclusive.

There's no need to go that back, we can pinpoint who's "to blame". Zen'ou wanted a tournament because he had fun watching Universe 6 against Universe 7. That tournament could only happen because both Beers and Champa agreed to it, their reasons for holding it do not matter. Thus, the answer is Beers and Champa.

The rest I already addressed.

That's not true. The only reason Universes are being erased, is because 2 Zenos think their games are too complicated with so many universes, the manga flat out shows us this. None of this happens if there aren't 2 Zenos, as proven by Trunks timeline and when Gowasu took Zamasu to the future.

[prince212]

[spoiler]https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 97/photo/2[/spoiler]
I like this self portrait of toyotaro really brilliant to disguise as trunks , changing the sword for the ink pen and those panel pages blast behind.
As for the message written translation .. respect and wish to keep improving , he’s got an impossible task but he doesn’t want to give up in order to be stronger just like the characters in the show

[prince212]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 97/photo/2
Sorry for double post I tried wrongly to attach this pic

[ToshioWrites]

F Trunks spinoff manga wen?


Anyways so i've been reading a rumor that chapter 34 is about the trio of danger, how did that start? Anybody know?

[Hawk9211]

F Trunks spinoff manga wen?


Anyways so i've been reading a rumor that chapter 34 is about the trio of danger, how did that start? Anybody know?

Toyotaro tweeted that he will listen to man with a mission while drawing trio of danger,you might find the quote in previous page.

[majinwarman]

Any idea why toyotaro left out the plot element of Frost being a ruler during the Champa Arc ?
It's brought up in the manga the same way it was in the anime when Frieza and Frost meet up.

Lots of people assumed that was toei filler, but it seems Toriyama's notes had Frost as an emperor as well.

I forgot that the new chapter just randomly brought up Frost being an emperor. I wonder why this information wasn't stated in the Champa Arc when Frost was introduced.

It probably wasn't specified by Mr.Toriyama. Toyotarõ must have liked it and copied it from the anime.

Maybe, but I still have my doubts.