"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[jeffbr92]

Sorry, but some of your points are flawed. Future Trunks arc (and that's the correct name not Goku Black) also had decent animation, battles and great soundtrack (mostly still some of the best in Super). That's probably was your case, but I had way more fun rewatching Goku Black reveal, Trunks having a PTSD after seeing Goku, Trunks sparring with Goku, Black vs. Goku, Zamasu vs. Goku, the whole sequence: Black/Zamasu vs. the Saiyans and many other scenes than some of this current arc.
ToP also is poorly structured with a lot of repetition (characters constantly wasting time talking or ATATATATA fights and ki blast spams). Also apart from Goku and pals vs. Universe 11 and some Kale, Caulifla, Kefla stuff... There's not much really impressive on the fights of this arc.

There's no "correct" name for an arc. Just like back in Z, we have Androids/Cell and even Namek/Freeza. Calling it the Black arc is just consistent with the arcs being villain names. I agree with the ToP being a lot of repetition (the ATATATATATATA especially is annoying as hell). Agreed on the other point too. Besides the big moments, the fights in the ToP were mostly lame.

There are, Toei has official names for each arc if I'm not mistaken.

[sintzu]

Literally everything you said here was the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site, including from the strength thread.

Let's see if this is true.

The execution is bad because he gave them a big story but didn't do much with it and no one would call him out on it.

If someone didn't care about their job and it was having negative results on their work, wouldn't the logical thing to do is replace them with someone who does care and who can get good results ?

What's wrong with wanting the head writer to put in more effort and care about what he's doing ? How is this in any way dumb ?

Freeza was one character and he wasn't completely out of Goku's league.

So you're going to tell me that the difference in power between them is the same as it was between Goku and the destroyers ?

Why make the same mistake again ?

Again, what's wrong with expecting them to learn and avoid mistakes they made in the past ?

The original manga as a whole shaped the industy as we know it so it being disliked by a minority is irrelevant.

This is a fact so it's "dumb" because ???

There's no way to know how Z or DB as a whole would've been recieved had it released today as standards are always changing.

Like all of the above, what's wrong with this ? standards are always changing so what was big back then probably won't be now had it been released as it was.

He gave them ideas, they have to make the most of it, no matter how dumb they are and don't say they can't, they made evil Goku look good.

Because he does get good results in moneymaking.

He never cared even back then. He never planned anything out and took the lazyman manga wayout everytime.

But you defended that lazy one, not this lazy one.

3.Freeza was completely out of Goku's league, are you serious ? Freeza wasn't even trying throughout the fight and Goku hit him with both a kaioken x20 and spirit bomb and he still had more power to show.

We have no idea how strong the gods are so what proof is there that he surpassed them ?

Even if it did, it took 5 arcs to do that.

It was not gradually, he got a transformation that he learned existed that same day and kicked Freeza's ass so bad that he gets bored with him. The anime also made that fight look much closer than it was.

Because it still the same franchise, if it made them money then why not now and they were not wrong.

Not that's a lie. Z had more, all super has is 3, God, blue and UI, but if you want to count the omen, trunks form and Vegeta form, then we have to count the grades all 4 of them, super saiyan 1, 2 and 3 . That makes them even , oh wait ultimate gohan exists, thats 7.

No, there is a way, you compare the now to the then and see if it holds up to the standards of today. Thats why they are called classics. They stand the test of time if all the OG dragon Ball has is impact and no quality to back it up, then thats bad.When you say something like that it means dragon Ball succeeded because it was lucky it git the ideas first.

It doesn't excuse him for being so hands off and for them going along with it. Goku Black is an amazing character who could've gotten an equally good arc had more effort went into it.

$$$ doesn't equal quality.

Him not caring back then is a flat out lie that needs to die. If he didn't care he wouldn't have spent 10 years of his life working on it on a weekly basis.

Him not planning things out was his way of writing which is different from what he's doing now which is nearly nothing.

Freeza was stronger but Goku's attacks were clearly hurting him, something he couldn't do with the destroyers.

They said so in one of the previews.

How wasn't it gradual when he was getting stronger thoughout the past 7 arcs and we saw those results before he went Ssj. Now, he started the arc completely below them and has now seemingly completely surpassed them. They are in no way the same thing.

Are you getting any of that money ? anytime someone points something out you bring up the $$$ they're making as if you're being paid off to defend them. If $$$ equaled quality then the transformars would be winning oscars.

What 4 grade forms ? The first Ssj. The grade forms Vegeta and Trunks used were just them getting power out of their mucsles like what roshi did so they weren't new forms. What are the other 2 ? Then there's Ssj3. Mystic is just Gohan's unlocked power, like the grade forms it's not a form. based on that we have 3 forms in Z, Ssj1, Ssj2 & Ssj3.

If the first star wars of iphone 4 released today with the same tech they'd be laughed at. Does that mean they're not classics ?

[Totamo]

Literally everything you said here was the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site, including from the strength thread.

Let's see if this is true.

The execution is bad because he gave them a big story but didn't do much with it and no one would call him out on it.

If someone didn't care about their job and it was having negative results on their work, wouldn't the logical thing to do is replace them with someone who does care and who can get good results ?

What's wrong with wanting the head writer to put in more effort and care about what he's doing ? How is this in any way dumb ?

Freeza was one character and he wasn't completely out of Goku's league.

So you're going to tell me that the difference in power between them is the same as it was between Goku and the destroyers ?

Why make the same mistake again ?

Again, what's wrong with expecting them to learn and avoid mistakes they made in the past ?

The original manga as a whole shaped the industy as we know it so it being disliked by a minority is irrelevant.

This is a fact so it's "dumb" because ???

There's no way to know how Z or DB as a whole would've been recieved had it released today as standards are always changing.

Like all of the above, what's wrong with this ? standards are always changing so what was big back then probably won't be now had it been released as it was.

He gave them ideas, they have to make the most of it, no matter how dumb they are and don't say they can't, they made evil Goku look good.

Because he does get good results in moneymaking.

He never cared even back then. He never planned anything out and took the lazyman manga wayout everytime.

But you defended that lazy one, not this lazy one.

3.Freeza was completely out of Goku's league, are you serious ? Freeza wasn't even trying throughout the fight and Goku hit him with both a kaioken x20 and spirit bomb and he still had more power to show.

We have no idea how strong the gods are so what proof is there that he surpassed them ?

Even if it did, it took 5 arcs to do that.

It was not gradually, he got a transformation that he learned existed that same day and kicked Freeza's ass so bad that he gets bored with him. The anime also made that fight look much closer than it was.

Because it still the same franchise, if it made them money then why not now and they were not wrong.

Not that's a lie. Z had more, all super has is 3, God, blue and UI, but if you want to count the omen, trunks form and Vegeta form, then we have to count the grades all 4 of them, super saiyan 1, 2 and 3 . That makes them even , oh wait ultimate gohan exists, thats 7.

No, there is a way, you compare the now to the then and see if it holds up to the standards of today. Thats why they are called classics. They stand the test of time if all the OG dragon Ball has is impact and no quality to back it up, then thats bad.When you say something like that it means dragon Ball succeeded because it was lucky it git the ideas first.

It doesn't excuse him for being so hands off and for them going along with it. Goku Black is an amazing character who could've gotten an equally good arc had more effort went into it.

$$$ doesn't equal quality.

Him not caring back then is a flat out lie that needs to die. If he didn't care he wouldn't have spent 10 years of his life working on it on a weekly basis.

Him not planning things out was his way of writing which is different from what he's doing now which is nearly nothing.

Freeza was stronger but Goku's attacks were clearly hurting him, something he couldn't do with the destroyers.

They said so in one of the previews.

How wasn't it gradual when he was getting stronger thoughout the past 7 arcs and we saw those results before he went Ssj. Now, he started the arc completely below them and has now seemingly completely surpassed them. They are in no way the same thing.

Are you getting any of that money ? anytime someone points something out you bring up the $$$ they're making as if you're being paid off to defend them. If $$$ equaled quality then the transformars would be winning oscars.

What 4 grade forms ? The first Ssj. The grade forms Vegeta and Trunks used were just them getting power out of their mucsles like what roshi did so they weren't new forms. What are the other 2 ? Then there's Ssj3. Mystic is just Gohan's unlocked power, like the grade forms it's not a form. based on that we have 3 forms in Z, Ssj1, Ssj2 & Ssj3.

If the first star wars of iphone 4 released today with the same tech they'd be laughed at. Does that mean they're not classics ?

You admit that he is hands off, if they could execute it properly none of us would care that he is. Thats my point. Your point is some nonsense that he has to both or neither, which is just dumb because we all agree the ideas are here, the execution is not and thats not his fault.

I never said it did, but quality is subjective and not something that can be measured. Money is objective and something that can be, Toriyama's work makes more than Toei's ever did and thats a fact. Dragon Ball isn't just a story, it was a product and it always was. Had it not been successful, it would been canceled.

I say he didn't care then for the same reason I and many say he doesn't now, He put no effort or thought into. Look at namek, a grassy land, with 3 suns so he never had to change the sky except once and you still say he cared?What about super saiyan, a form only blonde so his assistant didn't have to worry about inking or tails because he didn't want to draw it anymore. All of these are proof that he took the easy way out, something he would not have done had he cared.

Him not planning things out was is exactly what he does now and you hate it.

What are you talking about? We learned about Freeza in the namek saga, the same saga Goku surpassed him, we learned about the destroyers in Battle of gods arc. You can’t use those arcs to say Freeza was a gradually obstacle when he was never introduced until that story.

What the? Was it shown in the anime that he surpassed them? Come on, now. That stuff is meant to hype things up. Like Gohan rivaling his dad in blue despite losing to blue tier fighters.


No, he wasn't. If he harmed Freeza before he went super saiyan, then why was freeza still holding back? Why did Freeza decide to play with him for that long? Do you see what I mean?

The grades are forms and so is mystic. The story and games treat it like such and so does merchandise because by that logic, only super saiyan god and blue are forms super added, ultra instinct is a technique that alters goku's appearance which is why we call it one.


Yes,it would be which is why many say the first star wars movie was dumb but people like it anyway.

Look Z is dumb but we raise the sword and shield because we like it anyway and super is just a dumber version of that which is why many will raise the sword and shield for it because we like it anyway..

Dragon Ball and star wars are a lot alike, they are things you should watch when you are growing up and they should both be respected for what the impact they had on their respected mediums.


But, man are they not high pieces of art or storytelling and when deconstructed are dumb as hell. But when watched as just pieces of brain turned off entertainment are cool as hell.



And that imo, is what super will be remembered as. Really dumb, but really cool.

[Dbzfan94]

There are, Toei has official names for each arc if I'm not mistaken.

I dont remember the post but it was shown somewhere that even the official Japanese stuff splits the arcs up differently / has different names for them

[alakazam^]

I dont remember the post but it was shown somewhere that even the official Japanese stuff splits the arcs up differently / has different names for them

Yes, but none of them call it "Goku Black arc".

[Dbzfan94]

I dont remember the post but it was shown somewhere that even the official Japanese stuff splits the arcs up differently / has different names for them

Yes, but none of them call it "Goku Black arc".

There’s still nothing wrong with calling it that though.

[Alruneia]

It seems a bit weird to me to call it the "Goku Black arc" when it's all Zamasu. Future Zamasu is Zamasu, Goku Black is Zamasu, and the final villain is Merged Zamasu. If anything, it should be called the "Zamasu arc".
But it's officially called the Future Trunks arc, so that kinda settles that.

[Cetra]

Besides, giving it the name "Zamasu arc" is appropriate anyway.

[jeffbr92]

Besides, giving it the name "Zamasu arc" is appropriate anyway.

I agree. I think "Future Trunks" was a odd choice to name a arc, they could took the example of the current arc, named "Universe Survival" and call the previous one "Timeline crisis arc" or something...

[Raphael_Z]

Lets say Hypothetically Jiren gets UI too ( thats his dormant power). What would your reaction be?

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Actually, after seeing him with that red heat haze aura in the NEP, I'll be more suprised if he doesn't have something to that effect.

UI has A LOT to do with personality. The reason why characters like Jiren and Vegeta cannot achieve UI is because they fight for the sake of others (Vegeta) or for justice (Jiren). Goku fights for the sake of fighting, he can overcome his sense of self by emptying his mind which is why he was able to attain UI while Vegeta failed.

[GamerSkull]

I typically call the Dragon Ball arcs by their villains... so I think "Zamasu arc" would be the most fitting.

I guess a lot of the Super arcs are the exception though, since there don't seem to be as many straight-up villains.

[Ki Breaker]

What I find hilarious about this is the fact Toriyama isn't even sure what makes Dragonball unique..

[Kenneth La Torre]

Lets say Hypothetically Jiren gets UI too ( thats his dormant power). What would your reaction be?

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Actually, after seeing him with that red heat haze aura in the NEP, I'll be more suprised if he doesn't have something to that effect.

I wouldn’t be surprised either. But I doubt we’ll see that. If we do, then It would be expected

[Totamo]

What I find hilarious about this is the fact Toriyama isn't even sure what makes Dragonball unique..

well, he didn't plan it out so why would he?

[Ki Breaker]

What I find hilarious about this is the fact Toriyama isn't even sure what makes Dragonball unique..

well, he didn't plan it out so why would he?

He had 20+ years to analyze his previous work if he wanted, which he didn't, and that's awesome

[Hawk9211]

What I find hilarious about this is the fact Toriyama isn't even sure what makes Dragonball unique..

well, he didn't plan it out so why would he?

He had 20+ years to analyze his previous work if he wanted, which he didn't, and that's awesome

Yes and I am proud of him.On a more serious note,planning isn’t a actually a necessity ,you can advance the story in exciting and coherent ways without actual planning.After all the most famed planner oda designed the supernovas a week before the arc and they are one of most well received characters.

[thegamer23]

I'm noticing...no spoilers for the upcoming episodes 130 & 131?

I hope we won't get none of them. To preserve the element of surprise.

[GodVegetto91]

I'm noticing...no spoilers for the upcoming episodes 130 & 131?

I hope we won't get none of them. To preserve the element of surprise.

Probably next week. They usually do that in the second week when there’s a week off. Just my personal guess.

[BlueBasilisk]

I'm noticing...no spoilers for the upcoming episodes 130 & 131?

I hope we won't get none of them. To preserve the element of surprise.

Animedia and Animage officially release on the 10th in Japan. We'll probably see the WSJ for 130 around Thursday, and the one for 131 next week.

[Hawk9211]

[spoiler]

Literally everything you said here was the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site, including from the strength thread.

Let's see if this is true.

The execution is bad because he gave them a big story but didn't do much with it and no one would call him out on it.

If someone didn't care about their job and it was having negative results on their work, wouldn't the logical thing to do is replace them with someone who does care and who can get good results ?

What's wrong with wanting the head writer to put in more effort and care about what he's doing ? How is this in any way dumb ?

Freeza was one character and he wasn't completely out of Goku's league.

So you're going to tell me that the difference in power between them is the same as it was between Goku and the destroyers ?

Why make the same mistake again ?

Again, what's wrong with expecting them to learn and avoid mistakes they made in the past ?

The original manga as a whole shaped the industy as we know it so it being disliked by a minority is irrelevant.

This is a fact so it's "dumb" because ???

There's no way to know how Z or DB as a whole would've been recieved had it released today as standards are always changing.

Like all of the above, what's wrong with this ? standards are always changing so what was big back then probably won't be now had it been released as it was.

He gave them ideas, they have to make the most of it, no matter how dumb they are and don't say they can't, they made evil Goku look good.

Because he does get good results in moneymaking.

He never cared even back then. He never planned anything out and took the lazyman manga wayout everytime.

But you defended that lazy one, not this lazy one.

3.Freeza was completely out of Goku's league, are you serious ? Freeza wasn't even trying throughout the fight and Goku hit him with both a kaioken x20 and spirit bomb and he still had more power to show.

We have no idea how strong the gods are so what proof is there that he surpassed them ?

Even if it did, it took 5 arcs to do that.

It was not gradually, he got a transformation that he learned existed that same day and kicked Freeza's ass so bad that he gets bored with him. The anime also made that fight look much closer than it was.

Because it still the same franchise, if it made them money then why not now and they were not wrong.

Not that's a lie. Z had more, all super has is 3, God, blue and UI, but if you want to count the omen, trunks form and Vegeta form, then we have to count the grades all 4 of them, super saiyan 1, 2 and 3 . That makes them even , oh wait ultimate gohan exists, thats 7.

No, there is a way, you compare the now to the then and see if it holds up to the standards of today. Thats why they are called classics. They stand the test of time if all the OG dragon Ball has is impact and no quality to back it up, then thats bad.When you say something like that it means dragon Ball succeeded because it was lucky it git the ideas first.

It doesn't excuse him for being so hands off and for them going along with it. Goku Black is an amazing character who could've gotten an equally good arc had more effort went into it.

$$$ doesn't equal quality.

Him not caring back then is a flat out lie that needs to die. If he didn't care he wouldn't have spent 10 years of his life working on it on a weekly basis.

Him not planning things out was his way of writing which is different from what he's doing now which is nearly nothing.

Freeza was stronger but Goku's attacks were clearly hurting him, something he couldn't do with the destroyers.

They said so in one of the previews.

How wasn't it gradual when he was getting stronger thoughout the past 7 arcs and we saw those results before he went Ssj. Now, he started the arc completely below them and has now seemingly completely surpassed them. They are in no way the same thing.

Are you getting any of that money ? anytime someone points something out you bring up the $$$ they're making as if you're being paid off to defend them. If $$$ equaled quality then the transformars would be winning oscars.

What 4 grade forms ? The first Ssj. The grade forms Vegeta and Trunks used were just them getting power out of their mucsles like what roshi did so they weren't new forms. What are the other 2 ? Then there's Ssj3. Mystic is just Gohan's unlocked power, like the grade forms it's not a form. based on that we have 3 forms in Z, Ssj1, Ssj2 & Ssj3.

If the first star wars of iphone 4 released today with the same tech they'd be laughed at. Does that mean they're not classics ?

You admit that he is hands off, if they could execute it properly none of us would care that he is. Thats my point. Your point is some nonsense that he has to both or neither, which is just dumb because we all agree the ideas are here, the execution is not and thats not his fault.

I never said it did, but quality is subjective and not something that can be measured. Money is objective and something that can be, Toriyama's work makes more than Toei's ever did and thats a fact. Dragon Ball isn't just a story, it was a product and it always was. Had it not been successful, it would been canceled.

I say he didn't care then for the same reason I and many say he doesn't now, He put no effort or thought into. Look at namek, a grassy land, with 3 suns so he never had to change the sky except once and you still say he cared?What about super saiyan, a form only blonde so his assistant didn't have to worry about inking or tails because he didn't want to draw it anymore. All of these are proof that he took the easy way out, something he would not have done had he cared.

Him not planning things out was is exactly what he does now and you hate it.

What are you talking about? We learned about Freeza in the namek saga, the same saga Goku surpassed him, we learned about the destroyers in Battle of gods arc. You can’t use those arcs to say Freeza was a gradually obstacle when he was never introduced until that story.

What the? Was it shown in the anime that he surpassed them? Come on, now. That stuff is meant to hype things up. Like Gohan rivaling his dad in blue despite losing to blue tier fighters.


No, he wasn't. If he harmed Freeza before he went super saiyan, then why was freeza still holding back? Why did Freeza decide to play with him for that long? Do you see what I mean?

The grades are forms and so is mystic. The story and games treat it like such and so does merchandise because by that logic, only super saiyan god and blue are forms super added, ultra instinct is a technique that alters goku's appearance which is why we call it one.


Yes,it would be which is why many say the first star wars movie was dumb but people like it anyway.

Look Z is dumb but we raise the sword and shield because we like it anyway and super is just a dumber version of that which is why many will raise the sword and shield for it because we like it anyway..

Dragon Ball and star wars are a lot alike, they are things you should watch when you are growing up and they should both be respected for what the impact they had on their respected mediums.


But, man are they not high pieces of art or storytelling and when deconstructed are dumb as hell. But when watched as just pieces of brain turned off entertainment are cool as hell.



And that imo, is what super will be remembered as. Really dumb, but really cool.

[/spoiler]
I think this interview sums toriyama as a author.He is an extremely creative author but he needs to be reigned.Sometimes, I wish they never changed his editor.