Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

[majinwarman]

Back to the main topic, one thing I do like about Goku's Ultra Instinct is how some of his techniques have been his own re-imagination of Hit's techniques. Case and point, the air punch he inflicted on Kefla is very similar to the move Hit used to kill Goku in episode 71. And the move Goku used on Jiren in this episode (shown in this gif) is strikingly similar to Hit's Time-Skip.

Honestly it all reminds me of Kenshiro from Hokuto No Ken (Fist of the North Star). Ultra Instinct works the exact same way as Musou Tensei, the ability that Kenshiro learns at the very end of the series (not counting Hokuto No Ken 2) where he can dodge every attack. Not only that, but he could do exactly what you just described which is using other people's attacks. He attacks with the abilities of his fallen comrades. Kenshiro's pressure point attacks also have a delay before they hit their opponents, kinda like how Jiren didn't get hit by Goku's punches until a few seconds afterwards. Speaking of Hokuto No Ken 2, at the end of that series he learns an evolved form of Musou Tensei, just like Goku learns Mastered Ultra Instinct. There are definitely a lot of interesting parallels to be made.

Even the way that they dodge is similar, both have the effect of moving so fast that it looks like they have an afterimage following them.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

So many parallels...

Even if Toriyama may have gotten inspiration from other series (and even if I prefer black hair to silver hair), I still believe he outdid himself with Ultra Instinct and the awesomeness it displays.

I hope that episode 130 has an awesome fight between Jiren and Goku. That would be a great way for Super to go out.

[Kodoshin]

So with the speculation about Freeza and his involvement in the conclusion, am I the only one who has envisioned this ending in a style similar to how The Simpsons would do it? I.E. Goku and Jiren fall victim to a double elimination and then the membership of Universe 7, upon realizing they won, parade the unconscious body of Freeza around on their shoulders? Something akin to a sports championship celebration. Just me?

[majinwarman]

So with the speculation about Freeza and his involvement in the conclusion, am I the only one who has envisioned this ending in a style similar to how The Simpsons would do it? I.E. Goku and Jiren fall victim to a double elimination and then the membership of Universe 7, upon realizing they won, parade the unconscious body of Freeza around on their shoulders? Something akin to a sports championship celebration. Just me?

That would be funny to see if that happens.

[Tombstone1988]

Things I Liked:

-The last 5 minutes were spectacular, no denying that.
-The commentary from Whis (more on the others later) was insightful and nice.
-The second half of the episode looked great.
-The overall narrative was well-done.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-Vegeta's speech was interesting, but I felt like it was thrown in to justify the massive gains that the Saiyans have had this tournament. Like, "yeah, that has been happening, this tournament has been the catalyst." I wouldn't say it's strictly good or bad, just something I took note of.
-Jiren is just... I don't know. Every time he fights, I feel like he's great in theory but terrible in the execution. He never has the presence that Freeza or Cell did. It's more disappointing than anything.

Things I Disliked:

-Let's start with the elephant in the room: the reused animation. Holy hell, the reused animation. This is always my honest thoughts, so here we go: the reused animation in the first half completely killed my enthusiasm the first time I watched this episode. All I kept thinking was, "You gave yourself two weeks and THIS is what you delivered!?" I had to go back and watch it a second time with a clear head to give the episode any sort of proper critique. Different people have different perspectives, I understand that completely, but the reused animation really hurt this episode in my eyes.
-Sticking to the first half of the episode, it was... well, it was garbage, plain and simple. This is part one of our epic final battle, yet it's completely lackluster. Less than two minutes of sub-par action and then Goku jumps straight to his "ace in the hole?" Underwhelming. Thank goodness the second half of the episode had better action, but it still doesn't make up for the first half.
-Way, WAY too much peanut gallery. This is episode 115 all over again. There are more shots of the peanut gallery in this episode than of our two combatants. This is almost certainly a result of strained behind-the-scenes production, but it still hurts the episode's pacing. It also hurts the narrative at times. An example is when Goku is being barraged by Jiren's punches. Instead of showing Jiren wearing Goku down before he begins to slowly counter it, the peanut gallery simply describes it to us. I'm sorry, but that isn't very exciting, especially when this is the finale. Show, don't tell.


Wow, overall I came out not liking this episode, which is a massive shame. Perhaps it's my own fault for putting too much faith in the final battle. Regardless, I came out feeling there were more negatives than positives. The last 5 minutes were amazing, there's no doubt, but I'd like to ask: What about the first 16 to 17 minutes? Do those not matter? To me, the journey is more important than the destination. The end result of the episode is that Goku gets Mastered Ultra Instinct, and that's great, but the way there is filled with reused animation and fluff talk. Is this the worst episode of Super? No, not by a long shot. Is this the worst episode of the arc? No, episodes like 119 exist. I will say that I found this to be the most disappointing episode of the tournament thus far. Take that as you will.

Next episode preview looks promising, but then, so did the preview for this episode, so I'm keeping expectations tempered this time.

[BlueBasilisk]

-Jiren is just... I don't know. Every time he fights, I feel like he's great in theory but terrible in the execution. He never has the presence that Freeza or Cell did. It's more disappointing than anything.

I think what hurts Jiren is the voice acting. I'm not saying it's bad, but Frieza and Cell (especially Cell, who I find a real dullard otherwise) have really hammy and over-the-top performances to help carry them where Jiren is taciturn and says comparatively little. In the English dub of Xenoverse 2 he comes across quite differently and all they did was give him a super hero-ish voice.

[Spider-Man]

Did anyone notice that Iwan was not wearing a shirt in one scene.

[buutenks]

Did anyone notice that Iwan was not wearing a shirt in one scene.

The koribo GoD? Nope didnt notice. Had to google the name since i got no idea what the GoDs r called apart from Beerus, Champa, Belmod, Gin( i remember his name because of the 3 way GoD battle) n Liquiir(I find foxes in anime mystical, so he is instantly my favorite GoD).

Well kinda disappointed in the episode, while it was cool i was expecting more MUI fighting. Now i need to wait 2 weeks to see it in action.

I'm sure seeing it back to back with ep 128 n 130 will be cool, but as stand alone with so much time in between eps it kinda sucks.

[Ki Breaker]

Did anyone notice that Iwan was not wearing a shirt in one scene.

Couldn't notice it between all the sleeping I was doing during the episode but if that happened, I guess he just couldn't take that "heat"

[Gig]

Uhm... is this the first episode of the tournament where Goku had not even a line of speech (apart screams)? I should rewatch the episode, I don't even remember if he spelled ka me ha me ha...
Do you think that he will continue to do not a say a single word until UI completely goes out?
With Cauflifla Kefla, was he completely speechless or almost speechless, in UI?

[Asura]

Uhm... is this the first episode of the tournament where Goku had not even a line of speech (apart screams)? I should rewatch the episode, I don't even remember if he spelled ka me ha me ha...
Do you think that he will continue to do not a say a single word until UI completely goes out?
With Cauflifla, was he completely speechless or almost speechless, in UI?

Goku was talking some mad shit against Kefla, actually.

[Pannaliciour]

Just saw this episode 129. Whyy are people even complaining?? Reused amination? Yes but wtf 5 procent was reused the other 95 procent was movie quality. I swear I saw some footage that surpasses movie quality! And i saw it for free!

The only downside was that they are litterly moving so.
fast that the animators can't draw a fight correctly. But I feel the speed man. Thats great.

The ending with all the blitzing so amazing. This was a great epsiode. But overall the special is still on top, this one is second

[Asura]

Just saw this episode 129. Whyy are people even complaining?? Reused amination? Yes but wtf 5 procent was reused the other 95 procent was movie quality. I swear I saw some footage that surpasses movie quality! And i saw it for free!

The only downside was that they are litterly moving so.
fast that the animators can't draw a fight correctly. But I feel the speed man. Thats great.

The ending with all the blitzing so amazing. This was a great epsiode. But overall the special is still on top, this one is second

Try adding another 0 to the end of that 5. According to Ajay's video, there was a grand total of 2.05 minutes of brand new action animation, and 2 minutes of re-used action animation. Then, 14 minutes of stills and CG. So literally half of the fight was re-used animation. There was some nice quality stuff in this episode, but aside from the really good special effects with the smoke and the lightning, and the directing as well as the last 5 minutes of the episode, nothing really shouted movie quality to me.

[Lord Beerus]

Just saw this episode 129. Whyy are people even complaining?? Reused amination? Yes but wtf 5 procent was reused the other 95 procent was movie quality. I swear I saw some footage that surpasses movie quality! And i saw it for free!

The only downside was that they are litterly moving so.
fast that the animators can't draw a fight correctly. But I feel the speed man. Thats great.

The ending with all the blitzing so amazing. This was a great epsiode. But overall the special is still on top, this one is second

Try adding another 0 to the end of that 5. According to Ajay's video, there was a grand total of 2.05 minutes of brand new action animation, and 2 minutes of re-used action animation. Then, 14 minutes of stills and CG. So literally half of the fight was re-used animation. There was some nice quality stuff in this episode, but aside from the really good special effects with the smoke and the lightning, and the directing as well as the last 5 minutes of the episode, nothing really shouted movie quality to me.

Yeah, the reused animation was a bit of a black eye on the episode, but they managed to make it work to a degree... somehow. And more people will remember and look back fondly on this episode for the debut of the Mastered Ultra Instinct than two minutes of reused animation.

[Asura]

Just saw this episode 129. Whyy are people even complaining?? Reused amination? Yes but wtf 5 procent was reused the other 95 procent was movie quality. I swear I saw some footage that surpasses movie quality! And i saw it for free!

The only downside was that they are litterly moving so.
fast that the animators can't draw a fight correctly. But I feel the speed man. Thats great.

The ending with all the blitzing so amazing. This was a great epsiode. But overall the special is still on top, this one is second

Try adding another 0 to the end of that 5. According to Ajay's video, there was a grand total of 2.05 minutes of brand new action animation, and 2 minutes of re-used action animation. Then, 14 minutes of stills and CG. So literally half of the fight was re-used animation. There was some nice quality stuff in this episode, but aside from the really good special effects with the smoke and the lightning, and the directing as well as the last 5 minutes of the episode, nothing really shouted movie quality to me.

Yeah, the reused animation was a bit of a black eye on the episode, but they managed to make it work to a degree... somehow. And more people will remember and look back fondly on this episode for the debut of the Mastered Ultra Instinct than two minutes of reused animation.

So what you're saying is people will look back fondly on only the last few minutes of the episode? That pretty much goes right back to Artorias' point on some of these episodes we've been getting lately which I fully agree with:

First half or so of the episode was alright, but the final bits are where the true hype are. Now if only they could drag that hype across an episode, rather than only have it at the very end.

Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.

[Lord Beerus]

Try adding another 0 to the end of that 5. According to Ajay's video, there was a grand total of 2.05 minutes of brand new action animation, and 2 minutes of re-used action animation. Then, 14 minutes of stills and CG. So literally half of the fight was re-used animation. There was some nice quality stuff in this episode, but aside from the really good special effects with the smoke and the lightning, and the directing as well as the last 5 minutes of the episode, nothing really shouted movie quality to me.

Yeah, the reused animation was a bit of a black eye on the episode, but they managed to make it work to a degree... somehow. And more people will remember and look back fondly on this episode for the debut of the Mastered Ultra Instinct than two minutes of reused animation.

So what you're saying is people will look back fondly on only the last few minutes of the episode? That pretty much goes right back to Artorias' point on some of these episodes we've been getting lately which I fully agree with:

First half or so of the episode was alright, but the final bits are where the true hype are. Now if only they could drag that hype across an episode, rather than only have it at the very end.

Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.

I don't really mind that approach because Dragon Ball's acrs that tell its story in that fashion, whether it's in manga chapters or anime episodes.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Things I Liked:

-The last 5 minutes were spectacular, no denying that.
-The commentary from Whis (more on the others later) was insightful and nice.
-The second half of the episode looked great.
-The overall narrative was well-done.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-Vegeta's speech was interesting, but I felt like it was thrown in to justify the massive gains that the Saiyans have had this tournament. Like, "yeah, that has been happening, this tournament has been the catalyst." I wouldn't say it's strictly good or bad, just something I took note of.
-Jiren is just... I don't know. Every time he fights, I feel like he's great in theory but terrible in the execution. He never has the presence that Freeza or Cell did. It's more disappointing than anything.

Things I Disliked:

-Let's start with the elephant in the room: the reused animation. Holy hell, the reused animation. This is always my honest thoughts, so here we go: the reused animation in the first half completely killed my enthusiasm the first time I watched this episode. All I kept thinking was, "You gave yourself two weeks and THIS is what you delivered!?" I had to go back and watch it a second time with a clear head to give the episode any sort of proper critique. Different people have different perspectives, I understand that completely, but the reused animation really hurt this episode in my eyes.
-Sticking to the first half of the episode, it was... well, it was garbage, plain and simple. This is part one of our epic final battle, yet it's completely lackluster. Less than two minutes of sub-par action and then Goku jumps straight to his "ace in the hole?" Underwhelming. Thank goodness the second half of the episode had better action, but it still doesn't make up for the first half.
-Way, WAY too much peanut gallery. This is episode 115 all over again. There are more shots of the peanut gallery in this episode than of our two combatants. This is almost certainly a result of strained behind-the-scenes production, but it still hurts the episode's pacing. It also hurts the narrative at times. An example is when Goku is being barraged by Jiren's punches. Instead of showing Jiren wearing Goku down before he begins to slowly counter it, the peanut gallery simply describes it to us. I'm sorry, but that isn't very exciting, especially when this is the finale. Show, don't tell.


Wow, overall I came out not liking this episode, which is a massive shame. Perhaps it's my own fault for putting too much faith in the final battle. Regardless, I came out feeling there were more negatives than positives. The last 5 minutes were amazing, there's no doubt, but I'd like to ask: What about the first 16 to 17 minutes? Do those not matter? To me, the journey is more important than the destination. The end result of the episode is that Goku gets Mastered Ultra Instinct, and that's great, but the way there is filled with reused animation and fluff talk. Is this the worst episode of Super? No, not by a long shot. Is this the worst episode of the arc? No, episodes like 119 exist. I will say that I found this to be the most disappointing episode of the tournament thus far. Take that as you will.

Next episode preview looks promising, but then, so did the preview for this episode, so I'm keeping expectations tempered this time.

From watching Ajay's YouTube video, he gathered that 2 minutes in the episode comprised of action from reused animation, 2 minutes comprised of action from new animation, and 14 minutes were either stills or just the peanut gallery talking about the fight. The "show don't tell" concept was really shoved aside in this episode.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty hard to defend, despite the supposed "overwhelming majority loving the episode". We waited two weeks for this episode AND it's supposed to the the opening to the final fight, but it just didn't open the fight with a bang in my opinion for these reasons. I really hope the next episode isn't like this at all.

[Artorias]

Absolutely wonderful episode.

Reused animation is always par for the course though, not sure why it's worth complaining about now.

This much reused animation is not "par for the course". If you do the math as some people have, LITERALLY HALF of the action is reused animation. That is utterly UNACCEPTABLE for an average episode, let alone the CLIMAX of your entire show. You guys need to stop defending it. I guess it's fine if you personally don't mind (although I struggle to understand how), but stop acting like people are overreacting when they bring it up. It's a completely legitimate complaint. We should have higher standards. No other show does this to this extent.

I was hoping the eps covered more, with only 2 eps left, DBS being canceled may give us a poor and rushed final eps. If the next eps is going to be the conclusion of the Goku v Jiren fight than the last one is going to have to be a rush mess of ending the arc and restoring universes (if they do), dealing with Freeza, concluding everyones storing, giving us a ending to Super and connnecting it to end of Z and I dont see that happening.

We may just get the original eps that get a "tough luck, our financial backers said no more, so no wrap up for you"

There's a chance the fight even continues to 131, leaving even LESS room for a conclusion. I say this because it's been confirmed that Takahashi is coming back for 131, and since he's an action animator, it would make no sense for him to come back with no real action to animate. And he's not supervising, so it's not for the sake of his character art. He's specifically doing key animation.

The beginning of this episode: the hardest toei´s attempt to make us think there are only two warriors left, so to me it´s pretty clear that the outcome of this fight will be a draw and u7 wins by having more numbers.

I'm still holding out that they go for a Cell saga scenario where Freeza helps Goku at the last second to eliminate Jiren in a team up, rather than the predictable lame ending of him just being hidden the whole time and/or U7 wins because of numbers. A man can dream.

[GamerSkull]

I truly hope the fight feels more epic in the next episode. As far as Super is concerned, I haven't been enjoying a lot of the story beats so I would want the action to deliver.

The last two minutes of Episode 129 were pretty good but I hope that same level (or possibly more) is spread out over the full 20 minutes of 130.

[Pannaliciour]

Just saw this episode 129. Whyy are people even complaining?? Reused amination? Yes but wtf 5 procent was reused the other 95 procent was movie quality. I swear I saw some footage that surpasses movie quality! And i saw it for free!

The only downside was that they are litterly moving so.
fast that the animators can't draw a fight correctly. But I feel the speed man. Thats great.

The ending with all the blitzing so amazing. This was a great epsiode. But overall the special is still on top, this one is second

Try adding another 0 to the end of that 5. According to Ajay's video, there was a grand total of 2.05 minutes of brand new action animation, and 2 minutes of re-used action animation. Then, 14 minutes of stills and CG. So literally half of the fight was re-used animation. There was some nice quality stuff in this episode, but aside from the really good special effects with the smoke and the lightning, and the directing as well as the last 5 minutes of the episode, nothing really shouted movie quality to me.

Yeah, the reused animation was a bit of a black eye on the episode, but they managed to make it work to a degree... somehow. And more people will remember and look back fondly on this episode for the debut of the Mastered Ultra Instinct than two minutes of reused animation.

You are talking about action scenes I am talking about the whole episode. Seeing the "reused animation" not the movie quality, I guess you are one of those that is happy that Super ends?

[Freeza9000]

I guess you are one of those that is happy that Super ends?

Gee, methinks you are generalizing way too much for your own health.