"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[ToshioWrites]

I would also say we should wait for the context of how it happens.

Goku might fall out of the form allowing jiren to eliminate him

maybe jiren gets UI ( the aura looks similar)

maybe whis expounds more on UI saying that it is still limited by its users speed and that full power jiren might just be way way too fast for him.

Also on the UI is supposed to be unbeatable note. I don't think Krillin with UI could beat someone like Vegeta who has no signs of UI at all and you get the idea

[HeroR]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Goku best Hit in their rematch with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. And Goku rung out the last of U2 with Blue Kaioken. Super Saiyan God also best Cali and Kale before they fused. Omen beat Kelfa.

Goku tied with hit. Both were on the ground out of breath

u2 guys are supposed to be impressive?

goku didn't eliminate kale or caulifla in god and then proceeded to get his ass beat by kefla in base

omen did succeed vs kefla, i'll accept that but couldn't beat jiren and he had to get this mastered form

Goku floored Hit with a single Kamehameha without even using the Kaioken.

While he was in a black hole, tired, and 17 was helpless despite his power, yes.

He only didn’t elimate them because they fused. So he did ‘beat’ Kale and Cali.

He more or less stalemated with Jiren in 129. Problem was, Omen had no stamina.

[HeroR]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.
In fact, he already had an exaggerated prominence in this saga and did much more than all the others, what the reason of the complaint? Just because it will lose? This does not mean much.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

IIRc whis said it would allow you to "avoid any danger" but that doesn't mean in a setting like this it can't be beaten. If goku could fly he might be unbeatable. maybe he runs out of stamina.
In DB , Raw power always trumps. This arc we've seen hakai energy get absolutely owned , why can't ui?

In the synopsis of EP 129 it was said that Jiren's quick and heavy attacks were too much for Goku to deflect with the UI.

So, power can overcome the ability to divert without thinking of the UI

In the actual esp, Jiren never got a clean hit on Omen. The best he did was push it back after Goku used the Kamehameha.

[Lord Beerus]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I'd die to see that happen.

[GodVegetto91]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.
In fact, he already had an exaggerated prominence in this saga and did much more than all the others, what the reason of the complaint? Just because it will lose? This does not mean much.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

IIRc whis said it would allow you to "avoid any danger" but that doesn't mean in a setting like this it can't be beaten. If goku could fly he might be unbeatable. maybe he runs out of stamina.
In DB , Raw power always trumps. This arc we've seen hakai energy get absolutely owned , why can't ui?

In the synopsis of EP 129 it was said that Jiren's quick and heavy attacks were too much for Goku to deflect with the UI.

So, power can overcome the ability to divert without thinking of the UI

Yeah if the person is literally hundreds of times stronger maybe. But that’s not the case with Jiren. Also, you don’t hype a form up THIS much only to have it not live up to it’s name IMMEDIATELY. Within the first fight in it’s first arc of debut. If they were going to nerve UI Goku than they should’ve done it in the far end future if Super were to come back. But this is just pathetic.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.
In fact, he already had an exaggerated prominence in this saga and did much more than all the others, what the reason of the complaint? Just because it will lose? This does not mean much.

IIRc whis said it would allow you to "avoid any danger" but that doesn't mean in a setting like this it can't be beaten. If goku could fly he might be unbeatable. maybe he runs out of stamina.
In DB , Raw power always trumps. This arc we've seen hakai energy get absolutely owned , why can't ui?

In the synopsis of EP 129 it was said that Jiren's quick and heavy attacks were too much for Goku to deflect with the UI.

So, power can overcome the ability to divert without thinking of the UI

In the actual esp, Jiren never got a clean hit on Omen. The best he did was push it back after Goku used the Kamehameha.

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

[ToshioWrites]

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.
In fact, he already had an exaggerated prominence in this saga and did much more than all the others, what the reason of the complaint? Just because it will lose? This does not mean much.



In the synopsis of EP 129 it was said that Jiren's quick and heavy attacks were too much for Goku to deflect with the UI.

So, power can overcome the ability to divert without thinking of the UI

In the actual esp, Jiren never got a clean hit on Omen. The best he did was push it back after Goku used the Kamehameha.

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Didn't the fuji tv preview say it was his "dormant power" Maybe he has to be pushed into a corner for him to access power he didn't know he had ala saiyans

[Kenneth La Torre]

In the actual esp, Jiren never got a clean hit on Omen. The best he did was push it back after Goku used the Kamehameha.

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Didn't the fuji tv preview say it was his "dormant power" Maybe he has to be pushed into a corner for him to access power he didn't know he had ala saiyans

So basically his own version of UI... Would not be surprised if he has it to be honest.

[RedHeat]

In the actual esp, Jiren never got a clean hit on Omen. The best he did was push it back after Goku used the Kamehameha.

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Didn't the fuji tv preview say it was his "dormant power" Maybe he has to be pushed into a corner for him to access power he didn't know he had ala saiyans

Maybe he has Ultra Instinct?

[Lord Frieza]

A tie?

See above post for response to similar idea.


On the subject of Frieza getting a wish "if" he wins, the rules of the tournament of power are basically those of a team style, King of the Hill match.

Such a match is decided by who stays on longest, as we all know, an the best play in such a match is the guy/guys who stayed on longest. Frieza may not be the strongest or have the most ring out if he wins, then he the best fighter not because of raw power but because, as he said on namek all those years ago, "Sometimes is the smartest one who wins, not the strongest". Frieza would be the best because of his superior game plan to every other fighter and the fact he the luckiest sob in U7 not to get ringed out by Toppo.

As for what he'd wish for, Goku and co have an out for that. Shenron cannot wish wish back someone more then once, so Frieza could very well have to use his wish on the Super Dragon Balls to get his life back unless becoming Omni-King will work round that issue.

But while I'm 90% convinced he's gonna win this, we'll see.

No offense, but that’s headcanon. The Super Dragon Balls goes to ‘best fighter’ or if you used the manga ‘the strongest fighter’. Not these Survivor type rules.

He wasn’t even the smartest, see God Toppo and ‘I can catch Haki’.

We'll see but remember these wore the guys who called a Tie on Gohan and Lavenders fight despite Gohan's blatant superiority.

And yes he is, he's been the most intelligent fighter all the way through and his ‘I can catch Haki’ moment you point out was one of only two major errors he's made this enter arc,that one based on a prior victory. Prior to the final's been the smartest fighter, with his trick of Frost, keeping out of the way of warriors like Kale and Jiren until the end, saving Gohan, Saving Goku and even sharing ki. This ending is likely what he was banking on wroughtly. He said he needed Goku to beat Jiren and Dyspo stated that Frieza's goal was to be the true winner. Infact everything Frieza has done is to net himself the last man standing awarded so he can get his wish.

Now dose that mean he will get his and that I'm right about the rules no, but theirs as much evidence for as well as agenst. And plenty that paints Frieza as a lot smarter then the rest of his team, but no less arrogant and childish in loss then he's ever been.

[Sani007]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.

You're right about it, but in fact since the Freeza Arc (1991) alone he didn't win any serious battle.

[ToshioWrites]

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.

You're right about it, but in fact since the Freeza Arc (1991) alone he didn't win any serious battle.

He beat kefla this arc

[Kenneth La Torre]

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Didn't the fuji tv preview say it was his "dormant power" Maybe he has to be pushed into a corner for him to access power he didn't know he had ala saiyans

Maybe he has Ultra Instinct?

Which also mean that he had surpassed his god before even awakening to this new power...it be UI or something else

[HeroR]

See above post for response to similar idea.


On the subject of Frieza getting a wish "if" he wins, the rules of the tournament of power are basically those of a team style, King of the Hill match.

Such a match is decided by who stays on longest, as we all know, an the best play in such a match is the guy/guys who stayed on longest. Frieza may not be the strongest or have the most ring out if he wins, then he the best fighter not because of raw power but because, as he said on namek all those years ago, "Sometimes is the smartest one who wins, not the strongest". Frieza would be the best because of his superior game plan to every other fighter and the fact he the luckiest sob in U7 not to get ringed out by Toppo.

As for what he'd wish for, Goku and co have an out for that. Shenron cannot wish wish back someone more then once, so Frieza could very well have to use his wish on the Super Dragon Balls to get his life back unless becoming Omni-King will work round that issue.

But while I'm 90% convinced he's gonna win this, we'll see.

No offense, but that’s headcanon. The Super Dragon Balls goes to ‘best fighter’ or if you used the manga ‘the strongest fighter’. Not these Survivor type rules.

He wasn’t even the smartest, see God Toppo and ‘I can catch Haki’.

We'll see but remember these wore the guys who called a Tie on Gohan and Lavenders fight despite Gohan's blatant superiority.

And yes he is, he's been the most intelligent fighter all the way through and his ‘I can catch Haki’ moment you point out was one of only two major errors he's made this enter arc,that one based on a prior victory. Prior to the final's been the smartest fighter, with his trick of Frost, keeping out of the way of warriors like Kale and Jiren until the end, saving Gohan, Saving Goku and even sharing ki. This ending is likely what he was banking on wroughtly. He said he needed Goku to beat Jiren and Dyspo stated that Frieza's goal was to be the true winner. Infact everything Frieza has done is to net himself the last man standing awarded so he can get his wish.

Now dose that mean he will get his and that I'm right about the rules no, but theirs as much evidence for as well as agenst. And plenty that paints Frieza as a lot smarter then the rest of his team, but no less arrogant and childish in loss then he's ever been.

He was smart until God Toppo happened and he tried to take out Toppo in base with a planet buster attack. He then tried to kill Jiren after he said scew the rules. Even with Dyspo, his ass would have been rung out if Gohan didn’t save him.

[HeroR]

Didn't the fuji tv preview say it was his "dormant power" Maybe he has to be pushed into a corner for him to access power he didn't know he had ala saiyans

Maybe he has Ultra Instinct?

Which also mean that he had surpassed his god before even awakening to this new power...it be UI or something else

If Jiren has UI, I think it would have been stated other than ‘Jiren gets serious’. He also wasn’t calm in that NEP.

[Legion]

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Because plot. Jiren of course does not have UI.

[HeroR]

Which begs the question on why the hell is he hiding so much freaking power, and not using it to eliminate goku.

Because plot. Jiren of course does not have UI.

It’s fiction. Everything is ‘plot’.

[Marlowe89]

I have no problem with Goku falling out of the ring, but I'm kinda disappointed to hear that the fight doesn't seem like it will conclude until the very last episode. I was hoping that episode would be reserved solely for wrapping up loose ends, providing some closure for certain character interactions, and maybe showing some EoZ stuff, but I'm not so confident there would be enough time for all of it at this point.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how they do it. I'm worried that the ending will seem rushed, but I'd love to be wrong.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Let me just say that if jiren does turn out to have UI, it would be very very poor executed, as they never hinted him as having UI, only that he knows about gokus heat in that state.

[Lord Frieza]

No offense, but that’s headcanon. The Super Dragon Balls goes to ‘best fighter’ or if you used the manga ‘the strongest fighter’. Not these Survivor type rules.

He wasn’t even the smartest, see God Toppo and ‘I can catch Haki’.

We'll see but remember these wore the guys who called a Tie on Gohan and Lavenders fight despite Gohan's blatant superiority.

And yes he is, he's been the most intelligent fighter all the way through and his ‘I can catch Haki’ moment you point out was one of only two major errors he's made this enter arc,that one based on a prior victory. Prior to the final's been the smartest fighter, with his trick of Frost, keeping out of the way of warriors like Kale and Jiren until the end, saving Gohan, Saving Goku and even sharing ki. This ending is likely what he was banking on wroughtly. He said he needed Goku to beat Jiren and Dyspo stated that Frieza's goal was to be the true winner. Infact everything Frieza has done is to net himself the last man standing awarded so he can get his wish.

Now dose that mean he will get his and that I'm right about the rules no, but theirs as much evidence for as well as agenst. And plenty that paints Frieza as a lot smarter then the rest of his team, but no less arrogant and childish in loss then he's ever been.

He was smart until God Toppo happened and he tried to take out Toppo in base with a planet buster attack. He then tried to kill Jiren after he said scew the rules. Even with Dyspo, his ass would have been rung out if Gohan didn’t save him.

Yes, I will agree with you there. He underestimated Dyspo and overestimated himself with Toppo. With Jiren, Frieza was throwing one of his hissy fits that he always dose when he gets shown up. Unless his plan was to get put on his ass again.

But in a way him getting saved by Gohan could be seen as a pay off for his earlier saving of Gohan. Much like how his saving of Goku is getting a shot at a weakened Jiren, win or lose. No game plan is perfect, Frieza is not perfect, but he's played a dame good game were he's made "mostly" smart choices and his bets have come out in his favor more then they have not.

Edit:

If you want evidence for Frieza not getting the wish, Zen-Oh is a Goku fanboy and could very well give him the wish just because of that and/or his mastering of UI.