"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Black Hawk]

Based on the spoilers, it sounds to me like the conclusion to the tournament will be quite disappointing. I'm holding out hope, though, that we're missing something that's intentionally being withheld and that the tournament's conclusion will be satisfying. Waiting for the episodes proper before I judge anything.

On the other hand, though, if the tournament really doesn't conclude until well into episode 131, I don't see how the tournament's aftermath, much less everyone returning home, will be wrapped up. Never have I believed that Super would end with a cliffhanger, but, unless the tournament ends and then we roll the credits without anything else taking place, then holy crap, a cliffhanger may not only be possible but mandatory.

[Sani007]

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.

You're right about it, but in fact since the Freeza Arc (1991) alone he didn't win any serious battle.

He beat kefla this arc

It's just a milestone for the real battle, like Drum, Nappa, Ginyu, etc.
Jackie Chun - Lost
Tenshinhan - Lost
Piccolo Daimao - Won
Piccolo - Won
Vegeta - Lost
Freeza - Won
Cell - Lost
Majin Boo - Won with Genki-Dama
Baby - Won with others Ki
Super 17 - Won with Anroid 18
Ī Shinron - Won with Genki-Dama
Beerus - Lost
Freeza - Lost
Hit - Lost
Zamasu - Lost
Jiren - Lost

[ToshioWrites]

Based on the spoilers, it sounds to me like the conclusion to the tournament will be quite disappointing. I'm holding out hope, though, that we're missing something that's intentionally being withheld and that the tournament's conclusion will be satisfying. Waiting for the episodes proper before I judge anything.

On the other hand, though, if the tournament really doesn't conclude until well into episode 131, I don't see how the tournament's aftermath, much less everyone returning home, will be wrapped up. Never have I believed that Super would end with a cliffhanger, but, unless the tournament ends and then we roll the credits without anything else taking place, then holy crap, a cliffhanger may not only be possible but mandatory.

The episode title makes me think Freeza will be last one standing but when he tries to make a wish, his time runs out and he's back in Hell. Goku can use the wish to revive everyone. I don't expect any cliffhanger or consequential ending

[Artorias]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Goku had two fights in the exhibition tournament, 6 fights in the recruitment and many other fights in the tournament, much more than everyone. I would say that he still had an excessive focus on this tournament and even took the shine out of some other characters. He dominated the UI in minutes, overcame the Hakaishins and his fans still complain because he will lose?

And people still say that Vegeta fans are never satisfied?

I'm not as angry at the fact that he's losing, as much I'm annoyed that fans will STILL complain that Goku "always gets the final win". NO, no he does not. He's lost ALL FIVE arcs in this show, and yet people STILL insist he always wins. What world are they living in? I just want people to at least accept that he doesn't always win, and that having him actually win for once in the end wouldn't be "predictable" or "lame". It would actually be a TWIST at this point.

[Black Hawk]

The episode title makes me think Freeza will be last one standing but when he tries to make a wish, his time runs out and he's back in Hell. Goku can use the wish to revive everyone. I don't expect any cliffhanger or consequential ending

That's what I've been worried about for a long while now; I'm holding out my last bit of hope that it won't happen. If it happens, though, then it happens and I'll wait for the December movie.

[Michsi]

To be fair, even if he doesn't get the victory the story almost always kinda makes it seem like he is top dog anyway. Like the Tenshinhan fight; he only lost that one because of dumb luck, but you still get the feeling that he was the better of the two.
See, he looses both to Tenshinhan and Vegeta, but surpasses them so fast after his fight with them that it doesn't even matter.

[Artorias]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

[HeroR]

We'll see but remember these wore the guys who called a Tie on Gohan and Lavenders fight despite Gohan's blatant superiority.

And yes he is, he's been the most intelligent fighter all the way through and his ‘I can catch Haki’ moment you point out was one of only two major errors he's made this enter arc,that one based on a prior victory. Prior to the final's been the smartest fighter, with his trick of Frost, keeping out of the way of warriors like Kale and Jiren until the end, saving Gohan, Saving Goku and even sharing ki. This ending is likely what he was banking on wroughtly. He said he needed Goku to beat Jiren and Dyspo stated that Frieza's goal was to be the true winner. Infact everything Frieza has done is to net himself the last man standing awarded so he can get his wish.

Now dose that mean he will get his and that I'm right about the rules no, but theirs as much evidence for as well as agenst. And plenty that paints Frieza as a lot smarter then the rest of his team, but no less arrogant and childish in loss then he's ever been.

He was smart until God Toppo happened and he tried to take out Toppo in base with a planet buster attack. He then tried to kill Jiren after he said scew the rules. Even with Dyspo, his ass would have been rung out if Gohan didn’t save him.

Yes, I will agree with you there. He underestimated Dyspo and overestimated himself with Toppo. With Jiren, Frieza was throwing one of his hissy fits that he always dose when he gets shown up. Unless his plan was to get put on his ass again.

But in a way him getting saved by Gohan could be seen as a pay off for his earlier saving of Gohan. Much like how his saving of Goku is getting a shot at a weakened Jiren, win or lose. No game plan is perfect, Frieza is not perfect, but he's played a dame good game were he's made "mostly" smart choices and his bets have come out in his favor more then they have not.

Edit:

If you want evidence for Frieza not getting the wish, Zen-Oh is a Goku fanboy and could very well give him the wish just because of that and/or his mastering of UI.

Goku would most likely get because he had exciting fights, broke his limits several times, fought well exhausted and still won, has the most KOs, and was a team player. The only people who come close would be 17 and Vegeta.

[Lord Frieza]

He was smart until God Toppo happened and he tried to take out Toppo in base with a planet buster attack. He then tried to kill Jiren after he said scew the rules. Even with Dyspo, his ass would have been rung out if Gohan didn’t save him.

Yes, I will agree with you there. He underestimated Dyspo and overestimated himself with Toppo. With Jiren, Frieza was throwing one of his hissy fits that he always dose when he gets shown up. Unless his plan was to get put on his ass again.

But in a way him getting saved by Gohan could be seen as a pay off for his earlier saving of Gohan. Much like how his saving of Goku is getting a shot at a weakened Jiren, win or lose. No game plan is perfect, Frieza is not perfect, but he's played a dame good game were he's made "mostly" smart choices and his bets have come out in his favor more then they have not.

Edit:

If you want evidence for Frieza not getting the wish, Zen-Oh is a Goku fanboy and could very well give him the wish just because of that and/or his mastering of UI.

Goku would most likely get because he had exciting fights, broke his limits several times, fought well exhausted and still won, has the most KOs, and was a team player. The only people who come close would be 17 and Vegeta.

True but you could very well be right. But we'll see.

[HeroR]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

Judging Goku’s lost should be save for us actually seeing it.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

Oh relax. You’re obviously butthurt that goku won’t win against jiren. Take a chill pill. Maybe the way he loses isn’t so bad.

[Xeogran]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense.

Don't worry, in the movie they'll hype Rainbow Instinct and Goku will lose to the villain anyway and will need to be bailed out.

That's the current DB era we're living in. It's all for the merch, not for satisfaction.

I love the fact that Freeza is relevant, but Goku jobbing every arc after arc is truly disappointing...

[Grimlock]

Oh, so Goku will indeed ring out and Universe 7 will win because of Freeza, just like I predicted.

Well, like I already said once, this is a predictable ending, but an okay one too.

[RedHeat]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

I was gonna say something snarky about your opinion meaning less than shite just like everyone elses, but people would still be butthurt if Goku the Man of Tomorrow won.

[sintzu]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense.

There are worse things that have beed defended.

The only thing that'll make this "twist" somewhat less terrable is if Jiren also has UI...even then that'll feel a bit forced. I really wish they just let Goku get a clean win.

[Nero<>Akira]

Goku doesn't win. Good. Great. Fantastic. This is what I have been saying for a LONG time. That Goku cannot win and he must not win. Jiren is too powerful. He's always been too powerful. Goku doesn't need to win either for us to see just how amazing he has become in his journey since the first chapter of the manga. Him mastering Ultra Instinct IS the win. He doesn't need to beat Jiren. And Freeza being the last man standing is the best possible outcome and gives even more credence to his return. Plus, it'll be so good if he does his O HOHOHO when he wins. Even if some of us predicted that Freeza would be the last one and Goku lost, it's still the best narrative result. The fact that UI even let Goku climb so much was already pushing it for me despite being a God Technique. Now.. let's see if Freeza actually gets his wish whatever he decides to wish for. I'm also ecstatic to say I called the fight continuing on to 131 and why Takahashi would be on it. So great. Hopefully it all looks and plays extremely well.

Remember when SSG was introduced and Goku didn't win either?

[GodVegetto91]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

Agreed. This time in particular, Goku had EVERYTHING IN THE BAG in order to be able to actually win this time (UI) and yet they still blew it!!!! I seriously do not understand Toriyama and Toei. It’s like they really hate Goku - their own main character!

If Goku was going to win in ANY arc in Super, it would’ve been THIS ONE! With Ultra Instinct fully mastered aswell as the fact that the show is ENDING! Especially for those 2 reasons. But no they had to go and do something totally unexpected again. This is NOT a GAME. This is an actual story that’s being told here. I hate the idea that people always have that there needs to be “plot twists” and how the show should be “unpredictable” or “go against the norms” that’s totally unnecessary bs. The writers shouldn’t opt to play games and mess with our heads. It’s a serious story THAT HAS TO MAKE SENSE. Above anything else “Drama” shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of that.

[sintzu]

That's the current DB era we're living in. It's all for the merch, not for satisfaction.

Mastered UI was first shown in Heroes, XV2 DLC and osme figures so that should be enough to confirm that merchandise comes first and everything else is written around it, not the other way around.

[alakazam^]

From what I can make out.

Goku gets ringed out by Jiren.
Zen-Oh is about to erase universe 7 until he gets the "look" from Goku and Jiren.
Jiren gets death beamed in the back by you know who.

Odds of Frieza beating Jiren after his battle with Goku? Pretty darn good I'd say.

It's not that.

Goku falls off the arena. Universe 7 is supposed to be erased but it isn't.
Geran and Goku look at Zen'ous and they're like "What? The tournament isn't over yet."
"DEATH BEAM!"

[Nero<>Akira]

Also, enough with the dumb merch comments. Super only exists cause Toriyama wants it. He could give a damn about the merch when all he cares about is writing his story. the only forms we know Toei had a hand in was SSB Kaioken and SSRage. That's it and i don't see a lot of merch for that AT ALL. SSBE Vegeta could also be one and i don't see merch for that either.