"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Goku doesn't win. Good. Great. Fantastic. This is what I have been saying for a LONG time. That Goku cannot win and he must not win. Jiren is too powerful. He's always been too powerful. Goku doesn't need to win either for us to see just how amazing he has become in his journey since the first chapter of the manga. Him mastering Ultra Instinct IS the win. He doesn't need to beat Jiren. And Freeza being the last man standing is the best possible outcome and gives even more credence to his return. Plus, it'll be so good if he does his O HOHOHO when he wins. Even if some of us predicted that Freeza would be the last one and Goku lost, it's still the best narrative result. The fact that UI even let Goku climb so much was already pushing it for me despite being a God Technique. Now.. let's see if Freeza actually gets his wish whatever he decides to wish for. I'm also ecstatic to say I called the fight continuing on to 131 and why Takahashi would be on it. So great. Hopefully it all looks and plays extremely well.

Remember when SSG was introduced and Goku didn't win either?

Which is why Goku losing is predictable. And we don’t even know that Goku lost because ‘Jiren was too strong’, which is really lousy since it’s like saying Super Saiyan Goku shouldn’t won on Namek.

[sintzu]

This time in particular, Goku had EVERYTHING IN THE BAG in order to be able to actually win this time (UI) and yet they still blew it!!!! I seriously do not understand Toriyama and Toei. It’s like they really hate Goku - their own main character!

They think they're being "smart" but in reality they're just being very predictable. In every arc Goku has lost one way or another. Goku losing AGAIN is one thing but you also have them giving him mastered UI only for him to lose in it. What's the point of rushing the UI plot point if you're just going to waste it ?

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense.

There are worse things that have beed defended.

The only thing that'll make this "twist" somewhat less terrable is if Jiren also has UI...even then that'll feel a bit forced. I really wish they just let Goku get a clean win.

I’ll reserve judgment until the episode airs, but I do agree and wish that they’d let Goku get a clean win as well.

[Lord Frieza]

From what I can make out.

Goku gets ringed out by Jiren.
Zen-Oh is about to erase universe 7 until he gets the "look" from Goku and Jiren.
Jiren gets death beamed in the back by you know who.

Odds of Frieza beating Jiren after his battle with Goku? Pretty darn good I'd say.

It's not that.

Goku falls off the arena. Universe 7 is supposed to be erased but it isn't.
Geran and Goku look at Zen'ous and they're like "What? The tournament isn't over yet."
"DEATH BEAM!"

For the people who predicted a tie:

Jiren drops dead.
Frieza gets disqualified.
Universe 7 & 11 face palms all round.

[sintzu]

Also, enough with the dumb merch comments.

Super only exists cause Toriyama wants it.

He could give a damn about the merch when all he cares about is writing his story.

Seriously ? Mastered UI was announced in the merchandise first before we saw it in the anime. If that's not enough to say it's merchandise based then nothing will. Kai was said to be cancelled after Cell due to low merchandise sales so you've also got that.

Super exist because Bandai wants it to move merchandise. He's doing it to ensure we don't end up with another GT.

Story ? don't you mean very vague outlines ? He's doing very little in terms of writing and is more of a name to market the show.

[Lord Beerus]

Count me in the camp that want Goku to beat Jiren because he really needs a major victory and it would serve as the most cathartic way to conclude the battle with Jiren.

I know I go on about this, but, Goku's track record in major battles in Super is atrocious:
- Lost to Beerus
- Lost to Freeza (Although Goku technically killed him, it took a literal deus ex machina to do it)
- Beat Botamo
- Lost to Frost (Although that lost was nullified as Frost was disqualified for cheating)
- Forfeited against Hit
- Beat Copy Vegeta
- Beat Present Zamasu
- Fought Goku Black to an indecisive result
- Lost to Future Zamasu
- Lost to Goku Black
- Lost to Merged Zamasu
- Jobbed out to Hit
- Fought Hit again to an indecisive result
- Beat Bergamo
- Fought Toppo to an indecisive result
- Eliminates all of Universe 9 with Vegeta
- Lost to Jiren
- Beat Kefla

And if the spoilers are true, he may be losing to Jiren AGAIN. At least 70% of the battles Goku has been in, he hasn't won. Goku beating Jiren at this stage would actually be a twist.

[ToshioWrites]

How about this:

Goku is superior to Jiren but runs out of stamina and drops out of MUI and loses to jiren.

Now this way goku is shown to be the strongest non angel in atleast 8 universes, is that better?

[Lord Beerus]

I wouldn't be surprised if the episode preview summary was full of shit and we get something completely different in the episode itself. Wouldn't be the first time...

[HeroR]

How about this:

Goku is superior to Jiren but runs out of stamina and drops out of MUI and loses to jiren.

Now this way goku is shown to be the strongest non angel in atleast 8 universes, is that better?

I would call it lame since they pulled that with Vegetto Blue and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks going further back. Heck, they did this with Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Kid Buu. If Goku is going to lose, at least be original about it.

[Lord Frieza]

How about this:

Goku is superior to Jiren but runs out of stamina and drops out of MUI and loses to jiren.

Now this way goku is shown to be the strongest non angel in atleast 8 universes, is that better?

I would call it lame since they pulled that with Vegetto Blue and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks going further back. Heck, they did this with Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Kid Buu. If Goku is going to lose, at least be original about it.

It's better Goku and Jiren if Goku loses properly. Jiren's build up is justified and Goku gave it his all, it would feel real cheap for Goku to lose because of that excuses again.

[Amir]

I am curious how ANYONE can seriously defend this nonsense. What an absolutely TERRIBLE way for this show to end. Just awful. Not only does Goku lose the final fight AGAIN, but they did all this build up for UI and it meant NOTHING in the end. NOTHING. What a waste of everyone's time.

The fact that there are seriously people out there that are willing to defend this trash is baffling. ENOUGH, with the "twist" endings. ENOUGH. Is it too much to ask for the Goku/the heroes to win one arc? Just ONE? Please?

But Goku always wins in the end...right guys? Right? Oh yea, no he doesn't. I don't want to hear anyone repeat this blatantly false statement ever again. You're just objectively incorrect

I can defend it. You have not provided a single argument that explains why this ending is bad. All I see is you not liking the fact Goku didn't get a W, but that doesn't make the ending bad nor does it make the UI look like nothing. Soj ust because UI didn't win, does that mean it's build up ultimately meant nothing? No, it still introduced a very powerful form/technique and it gave Jiren, a mortal stronger than GoDs a run for his money, it was really powerful and unique but in the end he Goku still couldn't win. It doesn't even have to be the form's fault. Goku is currently heavily wounded, so maybe using UI with all that damage is ineffective and may consume his stamina even more or time runs out again, maybe that's why he will lose? Maybe he still needs more training to perfect the complete UI? Just because he reached the complete form of UI doesn't mean he perfected the form itself, just like with SSJ. You don't even know why he lost yet.

But I disagree that him losing to Jiren makes UI lose it's value.

[Sani007]

Why is better if there is a reason for Goku's losing? Seriously there is someone who likes that: "Goku would have won the 22. Tenkaichi Budokai, but unfortunately a car hit him..."?

[HeroR]

How about this:

Goku is superior to Jiren but runs out of stamina and drops out of MUI and loses to jiren.

Now this way goku is shown to be the strongest non angel in atleast 8 universes, is that better?

I would call it lame since they pulled that with Vegetto Blue and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks going further back. Heck, they did this with Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Kid Buu. If Goku is going to lose, at least be original about it.

It's better Goku and Jiren if Goku loses properly. Jiren's build up is justified and Goku gave it his all, it would feel real cheap for Goku to lose because of that excuses again.

Except that’s a repeat of 110 and Battle of Gods.

[Lord Beerus]

How about this:

Goku is superior to Jiren but runs out of stamina and drops out of MUI and loses to jiren.

Now this way goku is shown to be the strongest non angel in atleast 8 universes, is that better?

I would call it lame since they pulled that with Vegetto Blue and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks going further back. Heck, they did this with Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Kid Buu. If Goku is going to lose, at least be original about it.

I'd rather have Goku beat Jiren with Mastered Ultra Instinct, and then in the process of eliminating him, he passess out of the form from buring through all of its energy and accidently rings himself out.

[Nero<>Akira]

Goku doesn't win. Good. Great. Fantastic. This is what I have been saying for a LONG time. That Goku cannot win and he must not win. Jiren is too powerful. He's always been too powerful. Goku doesn't need to win either for us to see just how amazing he has become in his journey since the first chapter of the manga. Him mastering Ultra Instinct IS the win. He doesn't need to beat Jiren. And Freeza being the last man standing is the best possible outcome and gives even more credence to his return. Plus, it'll be so good if he does his O HOHOHO when he wins. Even if some of us predicted that Freeza would be the last one and Goku lost, it's still the best narrative result. The fact that UI even let Goku climb so much was already pushing it for me despite being a God Technique. Now.. let's see if Freeza actually gets his wish whatever he decides to wish for. I'm also ecstatic to say I called the fight continuing on to 131 and why Takahashi would be on it. So great. Hopefully it all looks and plays extremely well.

Remember when SSG was introduced and Goku didn't win either?

Which is why Goku losing is predictable. And we don’t even know that Goku lost because ‘Jiren was too strong’, which is really lousy since it’s like saying Super Saiyan Goku shouldn’t won on Namek.

Everything people thought of was predictable. It was either a tie and freeza wins unconscious. Goku wins. Goku wins but Freeza blasts him in the back. Jiren wins (which is the best) and freeza blasts him from the back. The most unlikely ending but was also a possibility was Freeza getting his wish as the ultimate being. It wouldn't happen though cause this is before Oob. The one that came from this is the best. Goku doesn't win which is usually good. Freeza is the last man standing. & Jiren beats Goku. Perfect.

And in the namek arc, Goku and Freeza were relatively equals until Freeza reveals he was using 2% of his power. It was assumed his final form was just that. Goku had his Kaioken to even things out until SSJ came and then Freeza goes 100%. They didn't have too much of a gap in power to begin with. In this arc, Jiren is revealed to be the most powerful mortal that surpasses his GoD and separately, Goku and Vegeta were just not GoD level. He was extremely hyped up from the very beginning to be too powerful and it actually makes more sense for him NOT to lose when there was nothing there to make Goku and Jiren equals. Even in the most recent episode, Jiren STILL wasn't going at full power. Narratively and thematically, Goku losing is great. Goku was nowhere near Jiren's level and Goku's story has never been about winning even if the situation calls for it. And, it feels so good for Jiren's conviction to win over friendship and trust. Sometimes, those things are not enough.

[Miracles]

I'm just glad TOEI kept it consistent that Saiyans are the only ones who could break their limits in a battle during this tournament. Jiren finally gets serious and uses full power as the spoilers state.

Also those who thought Jiren or MUI Goku is stronger than Beerus is pulling their eyelashes.

[sintzu]

I can defend it. You have not provided a single argument that explains why this ending is bad.

The fact that Goku has lost nearly all his fights in Super.
The fact that UI has been built up as an unstoppable power.
The fact that Goku went through not one but TWO UI forms.
The fact that the destroyers all stood up when Goku reached MUI.

Taking all this into account, you still think Goku losing is a good idea ? What do we know, Super is too high for us to understand its "genious" so whatever it does is automatically accepted.

[Alruneia]

It is of course understandable that people are angry about this (personally I find it kinda funny because this puts the "Goku is the only one who matters, know your place" people... well, in their place), since Goku's just gotten this hyped up new form and is still losing. However, look at this from the opposite direction: If Goku just straight up won, then what in the world would Frieza's inclusion in the tournament be for? This was literally his last chance to have a big moment, and if they didn't take it, Frieza would be far more disappointing that Goku could ever be as it stands now.
Here's what I hope happens, as simple as it is: Goku burns through almost all of Jiren's power before losing, leaving him weak/exhausted enough for Frieza to eliminate him without it feeling "wrong". Of course, an alternative version would be that Frieza's been charging an attack all this time and has now made it extremely strong, but that's probably not gonna happen.

[ToshioWrites]

Also those who thought Jiren or MUI Goku is stronger than Beerus is pulling their eyelashes.

According to new spoilers, beerus says something along the lines of MUI Goku might be stronger than him so it goes like

JIren > MUI Goku > beerus

[The gr]

Wait 131 is the episode where Goku losses right.I really don't know how I feel about Goku losing here.