Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Black Hawk]

Given Shin's surprise at SSJ Blue Vegetto's power potentially being "greater than Lord Beerus'?!", Toyotarō's uncertainty regarding who's stronger between Beerus and SSJ Blue Vegetto, and Beerus' statement that Ultra Instinct Gokū might be stronger than him, unless we're eventually officially told otherwise, I estimate SSJ Blue Vegetto and Ultra Instinct Gokū to be approximate equals.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Given Shin's surprise at SSJ Blue Vegetto's power potentially being "greater than Lord Beerus'?!", Toyotarō's uncertainty regarding who's stronger between Beerus and SSJ Blue Vegetto, and Beerus' statement that Ultra Instinct Gokū might be stronger than him, unless we're eventually officially told otherwise, I estimate SSJ Blue Vegetto and Ultra Instinct Gokū to be approximate equals.

You're mixing continuities there. MZ was able to keep up with Vegetto and Jiren would obliterate him with a fraction of his power.

[TheSaiyanGod]

If we cross reference with the manga and say Super Saiyan Blue Vegito is on par with Beerus, then it's only more evidence that Ultra Instinct Omen wasn't close to Beerus level.

Ultra Instinct Omen Goku from Episode 110 was weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Kefla and she isn't going to be anywhere near as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Vegito. I know he powered up since then but probably not enough to over come that difference until now when he's mastered it.

The non full power Jiren is above a God of Destruction because he's stronger than Toppo. It just might be that he's not above Beerus until he does use his full power.

I think it's best not to mix anime and manga information. This would make everything very confusing and in the end it would not make much sense.

I do not think Beerus is much stronger than Goku UI Omen.
It was said that Jiren was stronger than a Hakaishin and he was not even using all his power.
The fact that Beerus just says that MUI Goku may have surpassed him does not mean that UI Omen is not near him

[Black Hawk]

You're mixing continuities there. MZ was able to keep up with Vegetto and Jiren would obliterate him with a fraction of his power.

Hence "unless we're eventually officially told otherwise". Later chapters of the manga could differentiate their power altogether; my prior statement is simply what I'm going with for now.

[Helios518]

Question to all of you: SSJ Kafla losing to a tired SSJBKK seemed like a real possibility at the time, but later her SSJ is said to rival the Genki-Dama. Does Kafla's power grow over time?

[TheUltimateNinja]

I wish these guys would think before writing power statements that turn out to be obviously wrong. Things like Beerus using 10% against Vegeta or Vegetto being anywhere close to Beerus.

Question to all of you: SSJ Kafla losing to a tired SSJBKK seemed like a real possibility at the time, but later her SSJ is said to rival the Genki-Dama. Does Kafla's power grow over time?

She was just holding back. She even says she wanted to fight longer when Goku gets knocked out. However her power does grow over time since UI Goku was able to incite 2 power ups from her.

[Helios518]

She was just holding back. She even says she wanted to fight longer when Goku gets knocked out. However her power does grow over time since UI Goku was able to incite 2 power ups from her.

I know one power up is the the final attack but what is the other one?

[HeroR]

The point remains that Whis confirmed in that moment Jiren surpassed a God of Destruction. So saying Beerus is above Jiren has no backing unless you wank Beerus.

During the Genki dama struggle, that point Whis made was directed at Belmound not Beerus.

Because Belmound's is the God of Destruction from that universe on top of nothing stating that Beerus > Belmound.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Isn’t it a logical coclusion to just say they jiren is above hakaishin level only at full power? It’s already hinted that goku is only stronger than beerus when in MUI form. I mean, it doesn’t degrade them, it just means that if they ever want to hit angel tier, they really need to work their assess off.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Isn’t it a logical coclusion to just say they jiren is above hakaishin level only at full power? It’s already hinted that goku is only stronger than beerus when in MUI form. I mean, it doesn’t degrade them, it just means that if they ever want to hit angel tier, they really need to work their assess off.

Jiren has to be considerably stronger than the GoDs since some time in episode 123 or so Belmond states that he hasn't seen Jiren use a hint of his true power in a long time, which means it's been a while since Jiren defeated Belmond. Since Jiren is always pursuing strength, he must have become a lot stronger since then.

She was just holding back. She even says she wanted to fight longer when Goku gets knocked out. However her power does grow over time since UI Goku was able to incite 2 power ups from her.

I know one power up is the the final attack but what is the other one?

When she became an SSJ2. It didn't seem like a normal SSJ2 transformation judging by everyone's comments.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Isn’t it a logical coclusion to just say they jiren is above hakaishin level only at full power? It’s already hinted that goku is only stronger than beerus when in MUI form. I mean, it doesn’t degrade them, it just means that if they ever want to hit angel tier, they really need to work their assess off.

Jiren has to be considerably stronger than the GoDs since some time in episode 123 or so Belmond states that he hasn't seen Jiren use a hint of his true power in a long time, which means it's been a while since Jiren defeated Belmond. Since Jiren is always pursuing strength, he must have become a lot stronger since then.

She was just holding back. She even says she wanted to fight longer when Goku gets knocked out. However her power does grow over time since UI Goku was able to incite 2 power ups from her.

I know one power up is the the final attack but what is the other one?

When she became an SSJ2. It didn't seem like a normal SSJ2 transformation judging by everyone's comments.

That’s contradicting what the spoilers say about MUI goku only now surpassing beerus. I’m just going with my head canon that only now at full power are they beyond beerus. I may be wrong. Once the episode airs we’ll find out if they are just slightly superior to beerus, or considerably superior.

[TheUltimateNinja]

That’s contradicting what the spoilers say about MUI goku only now surpassing beerus. I’m just going with my head canon that only now at full power are they beyond beerus. I may be wrong. Once the episode airs we’ll find out if they are just slightly superior to beerus, or considerably superior.

That doesn't mean there's a small gap, in fact there's several instances of that being said with massive gaps.

For instance, Karin telling Goku he's surpassed him during the Piccolo Daimao Arc when it was obvious even RRA Arc Goku could beat him. And Roshi saying his students have surpassed him at the 23rd TB when he was already irrelevant at the 22nd TB. And Kami telling the humans that they've surpassed him when they were probably strong enough to take on Raditz who could blink Kami out of existence.

[Kenneth La Torre]

That’s contradicting what the spoilers say about MUI goku only now surpassing beerus. I’m just going with my head canon that only now at full power are they beyond beerus. I may be wrong. Once the episode airs we’ll find out if they are just slightly superior to beerus, or considerably superior.

That doesn't mean there's a small gap, in fact there's several instances of that being said with massive gaps.

For instance, Karin telling Goku he's surpassed him during the Piccolo Daimao Arc when it was obvious even RRA Arc Goku could beat him. And Roshi saying his students have surpassed him at the 23rd TB when he was already irrelevant at the 22nd TB. And Kami telling the humans that they've surpassed him when they were probably strong enough to take on Raditz who could blink Kami out of existence.

Idk... I’m skeptical. Even tho we aren’t arguing against each other (only how much stronger they are). I’ll just wait for the episode to clarify it.

[Miracles]

The point remains that Whis confirmed in that moment Jiren surpassed a God of Destruction. So saying Beerus is above Jiren has no backing unless you wank Beerus.

During the Genki dama struggle, that point Whis made was directed at Belmound not Beerus.

Because Belmound's is the God of Destruction from that universe on top of nothing stating that Beerus > Belmound.

Belmound stated that if Goku masters UI he will surpass Jiren.
Beerus states it's still questionable IF MUI Goku is stronger than him.

[Kenneth La Torre]

To be honest, I’m just glad that only when jiren and MUI goku are at full power, they are above hakaishin level. I was sick and tired of people comparing Kefla to God of destruction tier, and toppo as a god of destruction is comeplete fodder against real established hakaishins.

The only thing unexpected for me is that jiren just is far more stupidly powerful than anyone ever expected. No wonder goku fans are crying. And I don’t blame them, MUI was being hyped a lot, the problem is that jiren was already established more powerful than hakaishin along time ago.

[HeroR]

During the Genki dama struggle, that point Whis made was directed at Belmound not Beerus.

Because Belmound's is the God of Destruction from that universe on top of nothing stating that Beerus > Belmound.

Belmound stated that if Goku masters UI he will surpass Jiren.
Beerus states it's still questionable IF MUI Goku is stronger than him.

Based on a summery and Beerus is known for being prideful. And Belmound stated that mockingly to Vegeta.

To be honest, I’m just glad that only when jiren and MUI goku are at full power, they are above hakaishin level. I was sick and tired of people comparing Kefla to God of destruction tier, and toppo as a god of destruction is comeplete fodder against real established hakaishins.

The only thing unexpected for me is that jiren just is far more stupidly powerful than anyone ever expected. No wonder goku fans are crying. And I don’t blame them, MUI was being hyped a lot, the problem is that jiren was already established more powerful than hakaishin along time ago.

Except Belmound literally said that Toppo is no different from a God of Destruction, not that he's a noob. Not even Beerus claimed this.

And again, we don't know how Goku even lose.

[Speedster]

Beerus states it's still questionable IF MUI Goku is stronger than him.

When exactly did Beerus state this? As of episode 129 Beerus has NOT compared MUI Goku with himself in terms of power in any way, shape or form.

[Miracles]

Based on a summery and Beerus is known for being prideful. And Belmound stated that mockingly to Vegeta.

Belmound wasn't mocking cause he was worried and wanted Jiren to finish off Goku before he mastered UI.
Also that summary is usually accurate by Herms and Beerus isn't just boasting cause something has to contradict his statement for it to be so.

Beerus states it's still questionable IF MUI Goku is stronger than him.

When exactly did Beerus state this? As of episode 129 Beerus has NOT compared MUI Goku with himself in terms of power in any way, shape or form.

[spoiler]Check the latest spoilers [/spoiler]

[HeroR]

Based on a summery and Beerus is known for being prideful. And Belmound stated that mockingly to Vegeta.

Belmound wasn't mocking cause he was worried and wanted Jiren to finish off Goku before he mastered UI.
Also that summary is usually accurate by Herms and Beerus isn't just boasting cause something has to contradict his statement for it to be so.

Beerus states it's still questionable IF MUI Goku is stronger than him.

When exactly did Beerus state this? As of episode 129 Beerus has NOT compared MUI Goku with himself in terms of power in any way, shape or form.

[spoiler]Check the latest spoilers [/spoiler]

Herms' translation are right. Doesn't mean the summery is. And Belmound was mocking Vegeta about 'mastering UI and beating Jiren'.

[TheSaiyanGod]

To be honest, I’m just glad that only when jiren and MUI goku are at full power, they are above hakaishin level. I was sick and tired of people comparing Kefla to God of destruction tier, and toppo as a god of destruction is comeplete fodder against real established hakaishins.

The only thing unexpected for me is that jiren just is far more stupidly powerful than anyone ever expected. No wonder goku fans are crying. And I don’t blame them, MUI was being hyped a lot, the problem is that jiren was already established more powerful than hakaishin along time ago.

Toppo was declared to be no different from a Hakaishin and uses a power that only they can use, so he is definitely at that level. We just do not know if he is stronger or weaker than the other Hakaishins.
But he is powerful enough to scare Beerus and totally change the reality of the World of Void (which is supposed to be infinite I guess?)