"Silent, No Character" Jiren is 100% Toriyama

[Professor Freeza]

So Jiren is fully made by Toriyama. From his "no talking" to his story.

And after all this while people bitched about how Toei Jiren is bad and Manga Jiren is good. Looks like Toei Jiren is the Jiren of TORIYAMA's Vision.

[Mercenary]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

[SsjCookie]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

As much as I wish this to actually happen (just for the sake of some actual character development), we'll both know that Goku can't "EVER''' lose!
At least not when it really matters.

I'll be surprised if there will be some unrecoverable changes at the end of this tournament.

[JazzMazz]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

As much as I wish this to actually happen (just for the sake of some actual character development), we'll both know that Goku can't "EVER''' lose!
At least not when it really matters.

I'll be surprised if there will be some unrecoverable changes at the end of this tournament.

Except you know, all the times his lost throughout Super when it really mattered.

[DBZ Macky]

Jiren's "no character" schtick probably would've worked if it wasn't already done with Hit.

[Firebolt]

I find it interesting that Toriyama decided to create a silent, emotionless villain. Usually his villains are packed to the brim with personality.

This also explains why Toppo wasn't blabbering about justice all the time in the manga. I really wanna see how Toyo handles Dyspo's character, wasn't a big fan of how he was handled in the anime.

Was it stated whether or not Toriyama decided to create UI Omen as a precursor to Mastered UI? I wanna know if Omen is completely Toei, to know if it'll appear in the manga.

[PsionicWarrior]

Honestly, TOP has TONS of great ideas. On paper, I'm 100% on board for most of the stuff, but it's the directing and execution of an episode that matters on final result and impact on viewers.

[Hawk9211]

So Jiren is fully made by Toriyama. From his "no talking" to his story.

And after all this while people bitched about how Toei Jiren is bad and Manga Jiren is good. Looks like Toei Jiren is the Jiren of TORIYAMA's Vision.

There is no problem with a silent strong character it all depends on the execution.

[Professor Freeza]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

My god i love me some Goku fanboy Meltdown


And seeing this writeup I'm even more liking the ToP. Truly the second best to Namek.

[Vegeta_Sama]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

My god i love me some Goku fanboy Meltdown


And seeing this writeup I'm even more liking the ToP. Truly the second best to Namek.

Why do we have these divisions in the fandom? "Goku fans", " Vegeta fanboys" , "Gohan dickriders" etc... Can't we just be all Dragon Ball fans?

[SsjCookie]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

As much as I wish this to actually happen (just for the sake of some actual character development), we'll both know that Goku can't "EVER''' lose!
At least not when it really matters.

I'll be surprised if there will be some unrecoverable changes at the end of this tournament.

Except you know, all the times his lost throughout Super when it really mattered.

When did it really matter then?
Every battle he fought went fine for him in the end, he became chums with whi's and Beerus, he killed Freeza at the last moment, the mini tournament was won.
Except for Zamasu, but that wasn't his battle to lose, or timeline for that matter.
But even so, he still pushed the Zeno button that saved them.

I actually mean him LOSING losing.
You know, losing when things are supposed to stay lost...like losing a few universes or friends and family members.
Will some of these things happen in the tournament you think?

I just hope it will not be some fairytale ending for a change.

[JazzMazz]

As much as I wish this to actually happen (just for the sake of some actual character development), we'll both know that Goku can't "EVER''' lose!
At least not when it really matters.

I'll be surprised if there will be some unrecoverable changes at the end of this tournament.

Except you know, all the times his lost throughout Super when it really mattered.

When did it really matter then?
Every battle he fought went fine for him in the end, he became chums with whi's and Beerus, he killed Freeza at the last moment, the mini tournament was won.
Except for Zamasu, but that wasn't his battle to lose, or timeline for that matter.
But even so, he still pushed the Zeno button that saved them.

I actually mean him LOSING losing.
You know, losing when things are supposed to stay lost...like losing a few universes or friends and family members.
Will some of these things happen in the tournament you think?

I just hope it will not be some fairytale ending for a change.

When has that literally ever happened in the history of Dragonball?

[SsjCookie]

Except you know, all the times his lost throughout Super when it really mattered.

When did it really matter then?
Every battle he fought went fine for him in the end, he became chums with whi's and Beerus, he killed Freeza at the last moment, the mini tournament was won.
Except for Zamasu, but that wasn't his battle to lose, or timeline for that matter.
But even so, he still pushed the Zeno button that saved them.

I actually mean him LOSING losing.
You know, losing when things are supposed to stay lost...like losing a few universes or friends and family members.
Will some of these things happen in the tournament you think?

I just hope it will not be some fairytale ending for a change.

When has that literally ever happened in the history of Dragonball?

Almost never,I now.
The F Trunks arc was a rare exception.
But loss used to mean something in the history of Dragonball, now they are way too laid back about it.

[JazzMazz]

When did it really matter then?
Every battle he fought went fine for him in the end, he became chums with whi's and Beerus, he killed Freeza at the last moment, the mini tournament was won.
Except for Zamasu, but that wasn't his battle to lose, or timeline for that matter.
But even so, he still pushed the Zeno button that saved them.

I actually mean him LOSING losing.
You know, losing when things are supposed to stay lost...like losing a few universes or friends and family members.
Will some of these things happen in the tournament you think?

I just hope it will not be some fairytale ending for a change.

When has that literally ever happened in the history of Dragonball?

Almost never,I now.
The F Trunks arc was a rare exception.
But loss used to mean something in the history of Dragonball, now they are way too laid back about it.

So if Dragonball is terrible at creating meaningful repercussions, then why go with the Goku losing route, if they can have a satisfying pay-off with Goku winning?

Also, his never really won a solid victory that's resolved a conflict in Super either.

[Saturnine]

If Goku's getting knocked out then yeah, he's not winning. Even though this looks like the most opportune moment for him to actually win,and one carrying the most weight too. I've actually been quite happy with Goku not nailing the win several times throughout Super, but I'm not sure how to feel about this here. It's definitely a good thing for Vegeta fans, since Goku couldnt' accomplish what Vegeta couldn't accomplish either, so the outcome is the same basically. But for the purposes of the story it's definitely lacking, as it's not very rewarding. Of course this could be turned around, setting up for an arc where damage control is attempted, but since Super is ending now, that would be one hell of a cliffhanger. All the universes staying erased would be a really nice change of pace from the lack of meaningful repercussions that has always plagued the series (except for the Zamasu arc). Everyone's expecting a disney reversal and I'm betting that Toei know that. Failing to deliver on that expectation, or at least making the attempt a separate arc altogether would definitely be a nice change of pace from what we've had thus far - a perfect return to the status quo at the end of every single arc, with few permanent repercussions. The only permanent effect in Z that I can think of off the top of my head would be the destruction of Android 16.

Probably that's what we all need after all. A feeling that there are things that the DBs can't fix (or Freeza using them for another goal thereby rendering it moot), and a guarantee that the story will continue.

Also, Jiren is not a villain, he's just an antagonist this season.

[SsjCookie]

When has that literally ever happened in the history of Dragonball?

Almost never,I now.
The F Trunks arc was a rare exception.
But loss used to mean something in the history of Dragonball, now they are way too laid back about it.

So if Dragonball is terrible at creating meaningful repercussions, then why go with the Goku losing route, if they can have a satisfying pay-off with Goku winning?

Also, his never really won a solid victory that's resolved a conflict in Super either.

As much as I like to discus this with you, I realized we are actually going horribly off topic.
Sorry for that @Saturnine.

[Xeogran]

Toriyama purposedly made a bland strong character like Jiren just so the GOAT villain Freeza can finish him off and show who's the better antagonist, Ohohoho!

[Majin Jator]

Toriyama made the wrong call here, and we have ended with the dullest antagonist ever in the story of the franchise.
A justice-obsessed Jiren would have cemented the parallelisms with Superman, and give him a much needed consistent personality.
We like to blame Toei for the things we dislike, but Jiren is for me the weakest aspect of the arc, and Toriyama is the one to be blamed. That sucks.

[ekrolo2]

Toriyama made the wrong call here, and we have ended with the dullest antagonist ever in the story of the franchise.
A justice-obsessed Jiren would have cemented the parallelisms with Superman, and give him a much needed consistent personality.
We like to blame Toei for the things we dislike, but Jiren is for me the weakest aspect of the arc, and Toriyama is the one to be blamed. That sucks.

I don't think the idea is bad, the manga so far has managed to keep Jiren a guy who doesn't say much work by having his dialogue be meaningful. Just from his few lines, you get what he's about. The anime just makes him into every stoic, generic bad ass ever who's now spouting even more generic bad guy shit for good measure.

A more silent character can work fine, you've just got to have his lines mean something and let his actions speak for when he's not talking. Toei just fucked it all up.

[majinwarman]

It doesn't matter at all mate. The only thing that matters is - Goku will lose to him and the meltdown of Goku diehard fans is the best cure for chronic depression <3

My god i love me some Goku fanboy Meltdown


And seeing this writeup I'm even more liking the ToP. Truly the second best to Namek.

Why do we have these divisions in the fandom? "Goku fans", " Vegeta fanboys" , "Gohan dickriders" etc... Can't we just be all Dragon Ball fans?

I understand that there are certain fans who throw their fandom of a character around but we shouldn't be like this to each other. I love Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan just as any one of those fans but we should be more civil to each other. We all are Dragon Ball fans and we wouldn't talk to each other on this forum if it didn't exist.