"Silent, No Character" Jiren is 100% Toriyama

[majinwarman]

So Jiren is fully made by Toriyama. From his "no talking" to his story.

And after all this while people bitched about how Toei Jiren is bad and Manga Jiren is good. Looks like Toei Jiren is the Jiren of TORIYAMA's Vision.

I understand why Jiren is the way he is now. I think Jiren could have been better but he is okay.

[PsionicWarrior]

Toriyama made the wrong call here, and we have ended with the dullest antagonist ever in the story of the franchise.
A justice-obsessed Jiren would have cemented the parallelisms with Superman, and give him a much needed consistent personality.
We like to blame Toei for the things we dislike, but Jiren is for me the weakest aspect of the arc, and Toriyama is the one to be blamed. That sucks.

I don't like to blame Toei, when they make an episode right I'm praising it in the corresponding episode thread, but as it has been pointed out by me and others can you please not blame Toriyama for Toei's awful, awful execution please, would appreciate it thanks lol

[Marlowe89]

Looks like Toei Jiren is the Jiren of TORIYAMA's Vision.

Both of them are. Neither version of Jiren is particularly talkative so we can't say that one medium's portrayal of him is closer to Toriyama's vision than the other's.

It's the execution that counts.

[Lord Beerus]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

[Draconic]

Well... Duh? Who thought otherwise? The only thing I'm surprised is coming from Toriyama is the shitty backstory. He shouldn't have given him one at all, or if it was given, it shouldn't ever have been brought up as anything more than a tidbit in one of this kind of interviews. Being used by the writes to get a grasp on why Jiren is the way it is and give them something to go off of in characterizing him, without anything "expository" making it onto the screen.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Jiren isn't really a villain, and had he been talkative that would have been apparent from the start making the story arc less interesting IMO.

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

It wouldn't have been unique, he would have just been spouting off lines about justice like Toppo, and then Jiren wouldn't have seemed as mysterious and threatening.

[HeroR]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

How is Jiren playing it safe? He acts nothing like Toriyama's other 'villains' who tend to talk a lot and be hammy.

[Nero<>Akira]

Jiren is a badass and stoic character. These characters are universally loved. Never saw the reason why some people didn't like it. He was never a villain and he still isn't. He's cool and the anime version at least doesn't make him superman. I never had an issue with his backstory. It's as if people only saw that his parents were killed and that was it. I won't be surprised if the backstory is done better in the manga but the story remains the same. Honestly would have preferred if he had a daughter or son and he was killed. But, having his parents, master, comrades die as well as having his comrades abandon him is pretty good. I can feel that the next two episodes are really gonna give Jiren more push in terms of emotion, characterization, and investment judging by the previews. It would certainly be welcome. Won't even be surprised if I want Jiren to win more than I already do.

[Doctor.]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

How is Jiren playing it safe? He acts nothing like Toriyama's other 'villains' who tend to talk a lot and be hammy.

Because he already did this with Hit.

[Majin Jator]

You guys are not wrong about Toei's awful execution of the "stoic guy" trope, but even if done right, is trite. Having Goku fight a legitimately good guy would have been more original and interesting, at least for me (I'm aware that the actual Jiren is supposed to be a "good guy" too, but he comes as a jerk most of the time).
Of course, I liked the idea of Goku being seen as the "villain" of the arc, so your mileage may vary.

[Grimlock]

These characters are universally loved. Never saw the reason why some people didn't like it.

Because Jiren comes from the same place Broly comes too. A pretty generic character with little to no personality and all they have is strength and being unbeatable. People love this concept for whatever weird reason. Power is above everything else to these characters and to people who like it. If you have power, you don't need anything else. That's the only reason why they are universally loved.

Fortunately, there are some people, as you mentioned, that don't like that. And obviously they wouldn't like Jiren because they know power is not enough to build a character, a character can't, or better yet, shouldn't be one-dimensional.

[sintzu]

It's still a bad idea. Toriyama's characters are full of personality yet this guy is the complete opposite.

[HeroR]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

How is Jiren playing it safe? He acts nothing like Toriyama's other 'villains' who tend to talk a lot and be hammy.

Because he already did this with Hit.

Hit and Jiren are really not that similar. Even then, that is only one other character compared to the the dozens upon dozens of hammy personalities Toriyama made over the decades.

[Lord Beerus]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

How is Jiren playing it safe? He acts nothing like Toriyama's other 'villains' who tend to talk a lot and be hammy.

I'm speaking in general terms for anime and manga. In Dragon Ball specifically, yeah, you could classify Jiren as a unique character given how he acts (I guess?). But even then, it was so done much better with Hit.

[Nero<>Akira]

These characters are universally loved. Never saw the reason why some people didn't like it.

Because Jiren comes from the same place Broly comes too. A pretty generic character with little to no personality and all they have is strength and being unbeatable. People love this concept for whatever weird reason. Power is above everything else to these characters and to people who like it. If you have power, you don't need anything else. That's the only reason why they are universally loved.

Fortunately, there are some people, as you mentioned, that don't like that. And obviously they wouldn't like Jiren because they know power is not enough to build a character, a character can't, or better yet, shouldn't be one-dimensional.

The difference is Broly has stupid and lame reasons to be mad at Goku. His whole character is based on the fact that Goku made him cry when they were just born and for some reason can still remember. It's lame.

Jiren may have "generic" reasons, but I don't find it lame. I know some may precisely because its a standard backstory. Jiren is a superhero parody though many just don't see it. Muscular build for the standard alien look who is a super hero (take a step back and you'll see it's actually funny), can't be beaten by anyone, had his parents killed that spurred the journey to eventually become a super hero, cool and silent, and the reason he wins and is strong is because he is strong and that makes him right and that justice is always supposed to win. Let's not pretend he isn't arrogant, is honorable, has strong conviction, and takes his creed seriously. He even takes OTHER's creed seriously as long as he doesn't feel it's bullshit like he does with Hit's. He doesn't trust his teammates at all (sounds like another superhero lol). And he's strong as fuck. All of that, even if some other characters may be like that but not with all of these attributes, is enough for me to say Jiren is good. Not everybody has "personality" either. Besides, it goes along with what his character is about. And it's fine. He's more of a man of action.

[HeroR]

Very surprised to learn about this. I think Toei could have pulled off something more unique with Jiren, but Toriyama seemed more interested in playing it safe. I just wonder how Toyotaro will work in Jiren's backstory so that it doesn't clash with his interpretation of the character.

How is Jiren playing it safe? He acts nothing like Toriyama's other 'villains' who tend to talk a lot and be hammy.

I'm speaking in general terms for anime and manga. In Dragon Ball specifically, yeah, you could classify Jiren as a unique character given how he acts (I guess?). But even then, it was so done much better with Hit.

Do Toriyama watch other anime other than maybe One Piece?

Hit and Jiren are not really similar. They have similar archetype, but it played quite differently. Like Hit while proud doesn't have an ego unlike Jiren.

[Zephyr]

I think it's definitely an execution problem.

Toriyama gave Toei enough to work with, they just didn't take advantage of it, at least not when it was optimal. There's nothing wrong with him being a strong silent type throughout the tournament. The problem is when we know absolutely nothing about him or his motivations at the same time, then there's nothing to care about in the foreground or the background. The manga was smart enough to seed some of his motivations early on, so even if he's generically stoic throughout, we know for certain the whole time that there's a person behind it, a clash of interests and goals (besides the obvious goals of victory and survival).

Hit feels different to me. Not only was he not actively fighting for the entirety of his debut tournament, we saw subtle interactions between him and Goku throughout, with Hit not paying any mind to earlier fights, looking up when Vegeta went Super Saiyan Blue, and making eye contact with Goku's shit eating grin afterwards.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Toriyama probably made Jiren like that so that way he wouldn't have to actually write a personality for him!

But seriously by the looks of it he didn't bother writing personalities for the others characters, either. So on top of making up designs for the majority of the other fighters, Toei/Toyo then have to do the fights and then come up with personalities for these characters. Toei continue to pay animators, cast a plethora of voice actors with Sumitomo continuing to score music, Poor Toyo is constantly tweeting how tough keeping to schedule is. Yet these guys get criticised left and right sometimes with no remorse.

Meanwhile Toriyama is just re-tracing his design for SSG.

It literally doesn't get much easier for him, he is already not scripting fight scenes, just doing designs and plotting bullet points, yet apparently he still feels the need to cut corners. At least he is pulling his weight for the movie so we'll see how that ends up.

[prince212]

I remember the first time Jiren appeared..... kiero, that was badass. I’m ok with the non talk , in fact I like it , but the execution wasn’t so good some times , 8 times or more Jiren said to vegeta: “ you can’t beat me “ , that’s it too much imo for a non talkative guy , Toei could make it better just like vegeta pissed off becasue Jiren doesn’t talk back or something like that.
And about his background... it’s ok I guess he doesn’t trust and for that reason ..why talk ?
So, no talk no character is not related , could be a boring character ... or interesting if he only talk retain occasions with an awesome short phrase ... kiero was cool ...sleep was cool ... and imagine that when Toppo got eliminated he just say some short but hard instead of those 3 too much talk phrases .
But overall I’m ok with Jiren , only bothers me the fact that he only fought 3-4 rivals ?

[TKA]

"Silent, No Character" Jiren is 100% Toriyama

Lol, what's your point?

Toriyama told them their idea was bad and that Jiren isn't talkative. Then they interpreted that as "Make him boring as shit". Toyotaro's Jiren doesn't talk much, but has already stated his goals and has more character by way of facial expressions and actual clearly-defined morality. There's also no telling what Jiren would be like if Toriyama himself was writing him.

So, again, what's your point? Are you trying to put the blame for Jiren not being a character on Toriyama? If so, the manga is following the same notes and doing much better, friendo.