"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
Nakamura: It was decided fairly far in advance that we would do that special, so I invested personnel and money into it, and planned it out with the staff. We set our sights on that episode.

Takami: I was happy to hear from many fans online and elsewhere how much they enjoyed it. And of course story-wise as well it was an incredible fight, with that initial power-up. Toriyama-sensei had given us the word “Ultra Instinct” and its backstory and design, so we made Goku and Jiren’s fight the main event for that episode, with “Ultra Instinct: Omen” appearing too.

Nakamura: As we decided on the scenario’s course of events and reported to Toriyama-sensei, he came back with Ultra Instinct as a power-up for Goku. Toriyama-sensei thought it up as a completely different power-up from Super Saiyan.
I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting this portion of the interview. Takami's statement, to me, sounds something like the following:

Toriyama's draft included only the final Ultra Instinct showdown between Gokū and Jiren, so, to flesh out the outline and foreshadow the final battle, the Toei staff came up with Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū vs. Jiren.

However, Nakamura's latter statement, to me, sounds like the following:

The Toei staff came up with Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū vs. Jiren to flesh out the outline; they presented the idea to Toriyama and he responded by creating Ultra Instinct and adding it to the final battle between Gokū and Jiren that we're witnessing now.

It almost sounds circular. "Toriyama-sensei gave us the backstory and design of Ultra Instinct, so we decided to make Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū vs. Jiren. We presented that to Toriyama-sensei and he responded by coming up with the backstory and design of Ultra Instinct."

I'm missing something here; would someone mind correcting me? It'd be appreciated. :mrgreen:
Nakamura is just talking generally about the whole scenario of the tournament most likely, at which point Toriyama came back with the Ultra Instinct name and design, then it follows into Takami's explanation of why episode 109 & 110 came to be.
Miracles wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:
Miracles wrote:You seen the whole interview?
It's here. In Japanese, though.
My good sir, do you think you could give any extra interesting tidbits? Or did Herms give it to us already?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/03/10/ne ... interview/

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:37 pm

dbgtFO wrote:Nakamura is just talking generally about the whole scenario of the tournament most likely, at which point Toriyama came back with the Ultra Instinct name and design, then it follows into Takami's explanation of why episode 109 & 110 came to be.
Ah, I think I see. So, it's something like the following:

The Toei staff wanted to make a special to flesh out Toriyama's outline, so they came up with Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū vs. Jiren based on Toriyama's outline describing the final battle between Ultra Instinct Gokū for the special they were planning to make as a preview of sorts of what was to come at the end of the arc.

Correct?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:55 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:Nakamura is just talking generally about the whole scenario of the tournament most likely, at which point Toriyama came back with the Ultra Instinct name and design, then it follows into Takami's explanation of why episode 109 & 110 came to be.
Ah, I think I see. So, it's something like the following:

The Toei staff wanted to make a special to flesh out Toriyama's outline, so they came up with Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū vs. Jiren based on Toriyama's outline describing the final battle between Ultra Instinct Gokū for the special they were planning to make as a preview of sorts of what was to come at the end of the arc.

Correct?
Yes, I believe that's the case.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Thank you.

A good interview. So TOEI had a feeling Toriyama threw weaker fighters in the tournament not for raw battle power.
Well, we all knew this, TOEI just didn't execute them properly. Maybe a little for Roshi...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:04 pm

dbgtFO wrote:Yes, I believe that's the case.
Gotcha; thank you!
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Kick my ass? I'm world-class and Super Saiyan now."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:31 pm

I’m actually glad this interview came out. It explains a lot of stuff we’ve been arguing about in the last couple of months (well, at least it tells us why some things were done)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:02 pm

HeroR wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:
majinwarman wrote: I remember reading about his editor didn't want Goku to become an adult at all. But, I could be wrong so please forgive me if I am. But, the information is right though then Goku would be the Ash of anime before Ash even existed.
At least Ash have better Win / Lose ratio than Goku
Ash also have to win 8 badges just to get into the league.
But, there is an argument that some of those badges were given by gym leaders that let Ash win because they like him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:57 pm

HeroR wrote:I understand, but Pilaf finding Piccolo is more believable to me based on what I wrote then him knowing a bunch of information that only about three people should know.

Him spying wouldn’t explain the Black Star Dragon Balls since who would be discussing them? Dende knew nothing about them. They had to asked King Kai who had to look it up. Which now that I wrote that, why didn’t Popo tell them about the Black Star Dragon Balls instead of King Kai.
I'm still wondering why such dangerous things were just left in the middle of some room under a cloth when by GT the Lookout has been pretty easy to get on to.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:05 pm

majinwarman wrote: But, there is an argument that some of those badges were given by gym leaders that let Ash win because they like him.
And that argument is overexaggearted by fans. In the Kanto anime, and ONLY the Kanto anime, it technically only happens twice.
Sabrina was the only gym where he lost and still got the badge. The other time was the 8th gym where he beat Team Rocket but they werent the gym leaders but he got the badge anyway.
Surge, Koga, and Blaine he beat in a fair fight. Erika and Misty he was also winning (and would have won) but the match got interrupted for one reason or another, but got the badge anyway. Brock was questionable cause he won due to plot armor and anime rules defying the game rules, but still counted as a win.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:06 pm

Finished checking the full interview

iMO Kale alone wouldve been a complete bust, curious if the original plan was pair Kale with Cabba(before Toriyama came up with Caulifla).

Yuka Komatsu did an excellent job voicing Caulifla, she made her character exceed expectations considering Kale was supposed to be the breakout character out of the 2 girls.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:55 pm

Boooy. That episode was greeeaaat! By far the best episode of this series, if not, the entire franchise. I loooooove it.
Caulifla best girl! :)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:13 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:It's amazing to think if it weren't for Toei's suggestion for Kale, we would have never gotten a female SSJ, and the wait for that would have continued.
To me, whether we get a Female SSJ means jackshit. Though, this does make me wonder, if Kale wasn't created; would Cabba have been the only Saiyan on the team> WHo would have taken up the last two spots then?
More Toei-made characters? For all we know, the Namekians could've been Toei's idea as well.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:33 pm

darzap wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I don't think there is anything particularly amatuerish about how they're thinking when writing Super.
I think the writing in the last arc was terrible.
They were completely unable to create the illusion of a battle Royal when there was no indication of anything of relevance happening away from the main characters after the first episode.
They were completely unable to be even remotely consistent in power scaling, it was all over the place.
They were completely unable to be consistent with previously established mechanics. We've never seen anyone recover multiple times in a matter of minutes from going all out. They are simply unable to create tension without multiple all-out battles for the main characters and they created that problem on their own by making the tournament a single fight. They can have multiple fights to have multiple highlights and allow them to recover or they can have a single fight and make a point of stamina budgeting (which they did!) but they tried to do both, which is completely impossible when trying to make it believable.
The amount of time spent with various opponents was completely disproportionate to their relevance.
The ridiculous gap in power they created with Jiren, when nobody forced them to create that problem, required multiple a**pulls to bridge it and the "That's not even my final form"-cliche was abused to absurdity with Jiren, not in a matter of an arc but in a matter of a single-digit number of episodes.

They create a unique new scenario - great.
They make sure to establish the special circumstances of that new scenario - great.
They throw it all out of the window after one or two episodes, write it they way they write other arcs and contradict the rules they've just established left and right - why?

Don't get me wrong, I do watch every episode because I do like the characters and want to see what happens to them, but the writing in the last arc is terrible.

Even the previous arc, though...
Goku Black concept? Great. Zamasu concept? Great. Future Trunks? Great. The whole thing about Trunks protecting people, growing beyond his limits and managing to strike at the heart of the full-of-himself guy that underestimated him was a great point to make. But they completely undermine it right away by killing everything that was just protected right away after that and conclude in a way that makes the whole arc pointless (They could have switched to another timeline from the start) and throws everything away that they've just invested in. That's as if Sauron revived right after the destruction of the Ring, killed almost everybody and Gandalf took Frodo and Sam over to the blessed realm Valinor, saying "On second thought, screw Middle-Earth, we can just live in paradise anyway."
I think I've already mentioned that I don't agree with a lot of the creative decisions that staff have made, however, there is very clearly an idea and reason at how they wanted to handle the battle royale(though I don't necessarily agree with it). A thing that I personally felt like hurt this battle royale was a lot of really dull or poorly realized storyboards doing a bad job at connecting the action.

I'm not going to go through most of your points, because I feel like they're irrelevant to what your actually trying to debate. Though I do have a lot problems myself with the structure, layout and execution of the arc, the majority of your points are just very minor nit-picks that I don't think are really that bad or egregious, though some could definitely be attributed to my previous problems.

I think its worth noting that while Toei do have a fair bit of creative control, they still need to follow and check their idea's with Toriyama. How the FT arc ended was completely out of their hands. How this arc ends is completely out of their hands. How specific characters get eliminated, by the sounds of it, are completely out of their hands.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Gohan123 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:04 pm

Episode 130 will be streamed in several squares parks and bars all over south america for free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... hQx8PnzXXY [Embed] [Open]

Politicians got approval from crunchyroll to stream it in mega TVs
https://twitter.com/armando_cabada/stat ... 6736661505

Promoted in the news
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddj9Ru7yrks [Embed] [Open]

130 will be streamed in a STADIUM in mexico
https://www.sdpnoticias.com/deportes/20 ... su-estadio

This is crazy :shock:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Gohan123 wrote:Episode 130 will be streamed in several squares parks and bars all over south america for free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... hQx8PnzXXY [Embed] [Open]

Politicians got approval from crunchyroll to stream it in mega TVs
https://twitter.com/armando_cabada/stat ... 6736661505

Promoted in the news
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddj9Ru7yrks [Embed] [Open]

130 will be streamed in a STADIUM in mexico
https://www.sdpnoticias.com/deportes/20 ... su-estadio

This is crazy :shock:
What’s crazy is the riot that will go down once goku loses to jiren. Oh lord save everyone

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Venus » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Crazy how everyone talks about Super :D
Last edited by Venus on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 pm

Hispanic fans take anime seriously as much as soccer(I'm not kidding here).

So dont be surprised if there are riots after episode 130 airs or do stuff like burning DB merchandise :roll:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:50 pm

Won't Goku lose towards the beginning of 131 though?

People seeing 130 in public places will probably only be disappointed with a cliffhanger ending.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:32 am

I think we can all prepare for episode 130 & 131 to possibly have the lowest ratings of any episode that ever came out of Super. People all over the internet are saying that they are not going to watch the finales anymore. Since they refuse to support Toei any longer after what they did to MUI Goku. And they have a point. I too, will no longer be legally supporting them. They don’t deserve mine either.

Just go to the comment section of Mastar Media’s two latest video releases and you’ll see what i mean. There’s over 5K comments of people who are absolutely freakin pissed at Toriyama for making Goku lose. And they keep coming, in his latest video, Mastar revealed that a lot of fans are totally OUTRAGED. So prepare for perhaps the worst ratings in history for the upcoming episodes.

https://youtu.be/Et4emhsk6y4

https://youtu.be/H32tyU-11IE

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Firebolt » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:51 am

Nakamura: Even after the story is over, please keep watching to the end and don’t change the channel. There’ll be something special!

Any idea what this might be?
GodVeggeto91 wrote: People all over the internet are saying that they are not going to watch the finales anymore. Since they refuse to support Toei any longer after what they did to MUI Goku. And they have a point. I too, will no longer be legally supporting them. They don’t deserve mine either.
Does that mean you're going to pirate the finale? And it isn't Toei's fault that MUI Goku will lose. It's most likely Toriyama's idea. Also, we don't know how Goku loses, it could easily be another Ultimate Gohan case where he loses due to strategy/trickery like some people have said.
Last edited by Firebolt on Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

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