"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[prince212]

Don’t expect other universes to play a bigger role than they did in the anime. It’s only natural that only minor changes are gonna happen , omission of things , straight to the point , sometimes is better less well done than more medium done.
I’ll be happy if the anime issue of one fighter being without energie now and 5 seconds later he’s recovered won’t happen

[LightBing]

After these new revelations of Toriyama's draft's details, I am even more excited for Toyotaro's run. I didn't enjoy a single thing the anime added in those notes. Since Toyotaro seems to be adhering a bit closer to Toriyama's draft (namely, keeping the focus on universes 7 [and 6] and not pretending the other universes mean much), there's a very good chance this arc could be special.

As well U11, they are important.I also think U4 will be Revelant here,he better not pull a 119 on us.

What is wrong with fleshing out other universes?

What was the point of creating unique designs for characters if you're just going to waste them...

It doesn't work in this type of arc. You would drag the arc unnecessary for characters who don't matter for the narrative, dragging both in duration(episodes/chapters) and rhythm something even more essential when we have a timer.
All this while you sideline your protagonists to develop this crowd and then your readers get mad at you when x character you dedicated 20 pages to is finger-flicked by Goku.

I would also love to know all about the other Universes and these fighters, after all these are the best of the best. Something like this would only work on a "Grand Arc" with various sub-arcs. That is however very un-Dragon Ball like.

[Miracles]

Then that also qualifies for
Broly
Cooler
Android 13
The entire GT series

I should of continued by stating "in his story."

What do you mean?
All of Dragonball is his story.

But Toriyama has deemed some of those stories outside of what he says is Dragonball.

[TheMikado]

I should of continued by stating "in his story."

What do you mean?
All of Dragonball is his story.

But Toriyama has deemed some of those stories outside of what he says is Dragonball.

That’s not what Toriyama said:

On GT:
“But thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball, I was able to relax and leave it to them.”

[Cetra]

Besides approving something does not make it your thing. That is not how property works and he does not magically become the one who made that thing.

[majinwarman]

What is wrong with fleshing out other universes?

What was the point of creating unique designs for characters if you're just going to waste them...

I don't see it happening in the manga but I wouldn't mind some decent screentime for U2,U3 and maybe U9 in this version.U10 on the other hand not seeing a good future from this version.

I enjoyed what Toei did some of the universes that they fleshed out this arc. I kinda want to know some of the characters I'm watching U7 beat so I can feel bad about them when they wiped out by Zeno.

[Exline]

As well U11, they are important.I also think U4 will be Revelant here,he better not pull a 119 on us.

What is wrong with fleshing out other universes?

What was the point of creating unique designs for characters if you're just going to waste them...

It doesn't work in this type of arc. You would drag the arc unnecessary for characters who don't matter for the narrative, dragging both in duration(episodes/chapters) and rhythm something even more essential when we have a timer.
All this while you sideline your protagonists to develop this crowd and then your readers get mad at you when x character you dedicated 20 pages to is finger-flicked by Goku.

I would also love to know all about the other Universes and these fighters, after all these are the best of the best. Something like this would only work on a "Grand Arc" with various sub-arcs. That is however very un-Dragon Ball like.

It doesn't work in this type of arc? The whole point of the Tournament of Power was bear witness to the fighters from other universes that were hinted to be much stronger than Goku.
If anything its the perfect arc to be fleshing out the other universes, so we can decide how we feel about them and become interested in them. A large cast of characters that were made only to be meaningless after one hit should have never been made in the first place.

No random character deserves 20+ pages, you're over exaggerating D;
However, each character should get a proper elimination instead of being easily thrown off the stage.
I think Toyotaro was right to set up that some characters are easy to beat, but then he should slowly develop it to the point where most of the cast is at least able to take on Piccolo or the Androids at the very least. If we have every competitor at Earthling's level, this tournament is going to be very uninteresting to be reading.

A proper elimination doesn't have to take away too much focus from the main cast. What would be the point of introducing 5 other universes into the ToP if they are not going to have any impact in the story besides being fodder?

What is wrong with fleshing out other universes?

What was the point of creating unique designs for characters if you're just going to waste them...

I don't see it happening in the manga but I wouldn't mind some decent screentime for U2,U3 and maybe U9 in this version.U10 on the other hand not seeing a good future from this version.

I enjoyed what Toei did some of the universes that they fleshed out this arc. I kinda want to know some of the characters I'm watching U7 beat so I can feel bad about them when they wiped out by Zeno.

Exactly. I'm not saying each character deserves an episode , but they at least deserve a proper fight scene than just being tossed instantly from the arena. Add some interesting gimmicks as well to these characters.

[Kanassa]

Wow. After reading the current interview, it seems toriyama is at fault for things people hate about the tournament of power (mostly the main antagonists personality). I feel like they need better collaboration skills. Think things through more carefully.

The only thing Toriyama and Toei's staff do is pat each other on the back for the bare minimum effort they've put into this revival.

How'd you get that from this interview?

[Miracles]

But Toriyama has deemed some of those stories outside of what he says is Dragonball.

That’s not what Toriyama said:

On GT:
“But thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball, I was able to relax and leave it to them.”

"Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball, "

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

[Kenneth La Torre]

Wow. After reading the current interview, it seems toriyama is at fault for things people hate about the tournament of power (mostly the main antagonists personality). I feel like they need better collaboration skills. Think things through more carefully.

The only thing Toriyama and Toei's staff do is pat each other on the back for the bare minimum effort they've put into this revival.

How'd you get that from this interview?

Read it and find out. If you want a reason, the jiren you see in the anime, is the jiren toriyama wanted, you know, the one that people hate the most. While manga jiren seems to be a bit of what toei wanted (toei wanted jirens personality to be what toppo is now).

[Kenneth La Torre]

Both are at fault. It’s not only toei or only toriyama

[TKA]

I would also love to know all about the other Universes and these fighters, after all these are the best of the best. Something like this would only work on a "Grand Arc" with various sub-arcs. That is however very un-Dragon Ball like.

In addition, it's also obvious most of these characters have such mediocre designs that they're completely obviously not important. Most of the pride troopers have fodder designs. Same for most of the other universes' characters.

I've always said Toei should've case a broad net and have a bunch of artists not associated with dragonball design the members of each universe (obviously you'd have more seasoned Dragonball artists then streamline the designs). That way you get a bunch of unique designs that can trick a person's mind into thinking that particular character is important.

But that requires effort, and effort is anathema to Toei.

[TheMikado]

But Toriyama has deemed some of those stories outside of what he says is Dragonball.

That’s not what Toriyama said:

On GT:
“But thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball, I was able to relax and leave it to them.”

"Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball, "

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

I’ll just repeat myself Incase it wasn’t clear th first time...

“thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball”

Side story doesn’t mean not part of the story and Toriyama clearly considers it a continuation of his Dragon Ball story.

[JazzMazz]

I would also love to know all about the other Universes and these fighters, after all these are the best of the best. Something like this would only work on a "Grand Arc" with various sub-arcs. That is however very un-Dragon Ball like.

In addition, it's also obvious most of these characters have such mediocre designs that they're completely obviously not important. Most of the pride troopers have fodder designs. Same for most of the other universes' characters.

I've always said Toei should've case a broad net and have a bunch of artists not associated with dragonball design the members of each universe (obviously you'd have more seasoned Dragonball artists then streamline the designs). That way you get a bunch of unique designs that can trick a person's mind into thinking that particular character is important.

But that requires effort, and effort is anathema to Toei.

That's an incredibly disingenuous thing to say.

Also, why would you try trick people into thinking that certain characters are going to be important, when they really aren't going to be important. Its sounds like an idea that would waste a lot of cool character designs rather than do anything effective.

[Kanassa]

The only thing Toriyama and Toei's staff do is pat each other on the back for the bare minimum effort they've put into this revival.

How'd you get that from this interview?

Read it and find out. If you want a reason, the jiren you see in the anime, is the jiren toriyama wanted, you know, the one that people hate the most. While manga jiren seems to be a bit of what toei wanted (toei wanted jirens personality to be what toppo is now).

I have read it, I still don't see the lack of effort; in fact it makes me see more effort than I gave them credit for. Yes, a lot of people hate the Anime incarnation of Jiren, that means nothing in regards to my question.

[Kenneth La Torre]

How'd you get that from this interview?

Read it and find out. If you want a reason, the jiren you see in the anime, is the jiren toriyama wanted, you know, the one that people hate the most. While manga jiren seems to be a bit of what toei wanted (toei wanted jirens personality to be what toppo is now).

I have read it, I still don't see the lack of effort; in fact it makes me see more effort than I gave them credit for. Yes, a lot of people hate the Anime incarnation of Jiren, that means nothing in regards to my question.

Then be specific.

[Kanassa]

Read it and find out. If you want a reason, the jiren you see in the anime, is the jiren toriyama wanted, you know, the one that people hate the most. While manga jiren seems to be a bit of what toei wanted (toei wanted jirens personality to be what toppo is now).

I have read it, I still don't see the lack of effort; in fact it makes me see more effort than I gave them credit for. Yes, a lot of people hate the Anime incarnation of Jiren, that means nothing in regards to my question.

Then be specific.

Soecifc about what?

[TKA]

That's an incredibly disingenuous thing to say.

You are correct.

Let me change that statement.

Toei puts effort in all the wrong places.

Also, why would you try trick people into thinking that certain characters are going to be important, when they really aren't going to be important. Its sounds like an idea that would waste a lot of cool character designs rather than do anything effective.

You trick people into thinking characters are important to preserve drama. I shouldn't be able to look at a design and go "Ha, that person is fodder. Just hurry up and get them off my screen!" It's something the anime should've done since it decided to devote time to all the universes, rather than focusing the scope to just 6, 7 and 11.

[LightBing]

It doesn't work in this type of arc? The whole point of the Tournament of Power was bear witness to the fighters from other universes that were hinted to be much stronger than Goku.
If anything its the perfect arc to be fleshing out the other universes, so we can decide how we feel about them and become interested in them. A large cast of characters that were made only to be meaningless after one hit should have never been made in the first place.

No random character deserves 20+ pages, you're over exaggerating D;
However, each character should get a proper elimination instead of being easily thrown off the stage.
I think Toyotaro was right to set up that some characters are easy to beat, but then he should slowly develop it to the point where most of the cast is at least able to take on Piccolo or the Androids at the very least. If we have every competitor at Earthling's level, this tournament is going to be very uninteresting to be reading.

A proper elimination doesn't have to take away too much focus from the main cast. What would be the point of introducing 5 other universes into the ToP if they are not going to have any impact in the story besides being fodder?

I reiterate my point, Mr. Toriyama gave this arc 48 minutes.
It's like with the all Tenkaichi Budokais: more than a hundred of the best fighters on Earth and the story cares about eight, with a couple extras having a few panels to serve as punching bags to Goku and company.

Just threw a random number. I completely agree that's the approach Toyotarõ needs to take but he still needs to cut a lot of people before getting there. 80 people is just too damn much.

The point is exactly that, to be fodder to hype up the main contenders. Like I said above, it's the Tenkaichi Budokai formula. It's a shame to waste all this potential but that's par the course. I just can't see developing more than 8/10 characters(U7 not included) to work in the set up we were given.

[Vegeta_Sama]

That’s not what Toriyama said:

On GT:
“But thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball, I was able to relax and leave it to them.”

"Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball, "

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

I’ll just repeat myself Incase it wasn’t clear th first time...

“thanks to the excellent staff that I was having keep continuing Dragon Ball”

Side story doesn’t mean not part of the story and Toriyama clearly considers it a continuation of his Dragon Ball story.

No matter what you say, GT just CAN'T fit into the main timeline, so it's not a continuation of Toriyama's story. And don't give me that "but if Super ends with a memory wipe etc...". It won't, and even if it did it still can't happen because details like Kibito and Shin defusing are the proof that GT is non canon.