"Silent, No Character" Jiren is 100% Toriyama

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Except Hit had a lot of character and was very interesting.

Hit only got interesting when Toei decided to do something with him post tournament. The U6 tournament wasn't long so Hit could get away with the whole mysterious angle.

People saying Toriyama gave Toei enough to work with on Jiren is stretching it so people can continue to hate on Toei. Indicating no personality and then saying he doesn't speak is not much to work with at all. Honestly they should have just ignored him, that's the only thing I fault Toei with.

I don't think Toei should ever ignore Toriyama at all. I understand that you want Jiren to be talkative but once you give Toei that power they're going to mess it up. I don't trust Toei with full creative control on Dragon Ball if Toriyama is not involved.

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

[Helios518]

Hit only got interesting when Toei decided to do something with him post tournament. The U6 tournament wasn't long so Hit could get away with the whole mysterious angle.

People saying Toriyama gave Toei enough to work with on Jiren is stretching it so people can continue to hate on Toei. Indicating no personality and then saying he doesn't speak is not much to work with at all. Honestly they should have just ignored him, that's the only thing I fault Toei with.

I don't think Toei should ever ignore Toriyama at all. I understand that you want Jiren to be talkative but once you give Toei that power they're going to mess it up. I don't trust Toei with full creative control on Dragon Ball if Toriyama is not involved.

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

I don't believe Toei made UI. They just made UI"O" for 109/110 in response to Toriyama making UI.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't think Toei should ever ignore Toriyama at all. I understand that you want Jiren to be talkative but once you give Toei that power they're going to mess it up. I don't trust Toei with full creative control on Dragon Ball if Toriyama is not involved.

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

I don't believe Toei made UI. They just made UI"O" for 109/110 in response to Toriyama making UI.

I meant changing Toriyama's design.

[KingKaash]

So Jiren is fully made by Toriyama. From his "no talking" to his story.

And after all this while people bitched about how Toei Jiren is bad and Manga Jiren is good. Looks like Toei Jiren is the Jiren of TORIYAMA's Vision.

This is pretty interesting. Because I thought Toppo didn't exist at all. It was Jiren under the hood next to Belmod during the Exhibition until they changed it to Toppo. So I didn't know Toppo was done simultaneously with Jiren and Dyspo. I thought Toppo was a later add-on to make Vegeta have someone to fight

[majinwarman]

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

I don't believe Toei made UI. They just made UI"O" for 109/110 in response to Toriyama making UI.

I meant changing Toriyama's design.

I don't think that they changed his design at all but I could be wrong.

[Helios518]

I don't believe Toei made UI. They just made UI"O" for 109/110 in response to Toriyama making UI.

I meant changing Toriyama's design.

I don't think that they changed his design at all but I could be wrong.

He’s referring to how Toriyama’s UI was basically SSJG but silver while Toei changed it up a bit such as the hair.

[OLKv3]

Hit only got interesting when Toei decided to do something with him post tournament. The U6 tournament wasn't long so Hit could get away with the whole mysterious angle.

People saying Toriyama gave Toei enough to work with on Jiren is stretching it so people can continue to hate on Toei. Indicating no personality and then saying he doesn't speak is not much to work with at all. Honestly they should have just ignored him, that's the only thing I fault Toei with.

I don't think Toei should ever ignore Toriyama at all. I understand that you want Jiren to be talkative but once you give Toei that power they're going to mess it up. I don't trust Toei with full creative control on Dragon Ball if Toriyama is not involved.

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

They don't have full creative control. The deal is that Toriyama still has to OK their ideas. They've said this before in interviews and Toshio himself. Like Jiren himself being radically changed from what Toei in-visioned him to be. Or how they wanted Gohan to have a bigger role and got shot down by Toriyama.

[Vegeta_Sama]

They don't have full creative control. The deal is that Toriyama still has to OK their ideas. They've said this before in interviews and Toshio himself. Like Jiren himself being radically changed from what Toei in-visioned him to be. Or how they wanted Gohan to have a bigger role and got shot down by Toriyama.

When did they talk about Gohan? Not questioning you, just curious because I might have missed it

[batistabus]

Toriyama came up with Jiren's backstory and says "Jiren is a character who doesn't speak!" To assume that somehow equals "silent, no character" is extremely unfair and disingenuous.

When Toriyama says that Jiren doesn't speak, he's saying that he isn't verbose. When Toriyama gives Jiren a tragic backstory, he's saying that Jiren isn't a flamboyant, cartoonish justice fighter. That character ended up being Toppo, and that's who Toriyama was trying to say Jiren is not.

Just because he isn't verbose, that doesn't mean he has to be boring (in the way that Toei portrayed him). Some of the greatest characters are very terse in their speech, including John Wayne, Batman, and the Spartans. Toei utilized some appropriate one-liners towards the end of the arc, but by then, many who weren't already interested in Jiren had long since checked out.

If you were disappointed by Jiren's backstory...I don't really know what you expect from Dragon Ball. Akira Toriyama's characters aren't appealing because they have deep and complex backstories. Aside from the fact that they were visually designed by one of the best character-designers of all time, these characters truly shine through their flaws, ambition, and interactions with Son Goku (who always leaves a significant impact on their outlook, for better or worse).

[majinwarman]

I don't think Toei should ever ignore Toriyama at all. I understand that you want Jiren to be talkative but once you give Toei that power they're going to mess it up. I don't trust Toei with full creative control on Dragon Ball if Toriyama is not involved.

Toei already have full creative control. It's their product as seen with UI and Kale.

They don't have full creative control. The deal is that Toriyama still has to OK their ideas. They've said this before in interviews and Toshio himself. Like Jiren himself being radically changed from what Toei in-visioned him to be. Or how they wanted Gohan to have a bigger role and got shot down by Toriyama.

In a way, Toriyama has more power than most Toei directors on Super.

[majinwarman]

I meant changing Toriyama's design.

I don't think that they changed his design at all but I could be wrong.

He’s referring to how Toriyama’s UI was basically SSJG but silver while Toei changed it up a bit such as the hair.

That is just them making UI animation-friendly.

[Helios518]

I don't think that they changed his design at all but I could be wrong.

He’s referring to how Toriyama’s UI was basically SSJG but silver while Toei changed it up a bit such as the hair.

That is just them making UI animation-friendly.

The original design was like I said, just a silver SSJG. If Toei didn't change SSJG to make it "animation-friendly" then they didn't have to change UI to do the same because doing a silver SSJG is the same as a normal SSJG.

[majinwarman]

He’s referring to how Toriyama’s UI was basically SSJG but silver while Toei changed it up a bit such as the hair.

That is just them making UI animation-friendly.

The original design was like I said, just a silver SSJG. If Toei didn't change SSJG to make it "animation-friendly" then they didn't have to change UI to do the same because doing a silver SSJG is the same as a normal SSJG.

I wonder what UI Goku would look with clothes on.