Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by majinwarman » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:57 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Simere wrote:It's been several pages since I've said this, so I want to mention it again: I did like the episode by the end. It was just from the moment Goku struggled to stand, to saying "This is our power!" that had me bothered. Jiren attacking the stands was satisfying in many ways, and Goku's reaction was in keeping with what I expect out of him.
I don't mind that line at all because context of it isn't entirely unfounded. The third wind Goku needed to attain Ultra Instinct was fueled by him thinking of his friends and family. And had he not unlocked Ultra Instinct when he did, Jiren would have beaten him. So as much as Goku initially attained Ultra Instinct through his own sheer willpower, the subconscious reminder of the people who rely on Goku to save their universe was the spark the ignited the flame for Goku regaining Ultra Instinct and it eventually leading to him mastering the form. So contextually speaking, Goku isn't necessarily in the wrong for declaring Ultra Instinct as "our power".
They even said in the episode that Goku knows he wouldn't be able to achieve these heights of power without his family and friends.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by foxfang4 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:08 pm

I think this reaction video is legit gold. This guy is wearing a Red Ribbon army hat, and behind him there's an Android 17 plushy. So he's a fan. You'll rarely see a human reach nirvana at the reveal. Start at 19:42.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ZFcJP_wE0

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:27 pm

Bullza wrote:Look at the swarm of people here watching it in the middle of the city. It says 10,000 people showed up.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/intere ... ca/.129206
I heard Mexico got some problems with Japan because of this, it is true?
foxfang4 wrote:I think this reaction video is legit gold. This guy is wearing a Red Ribbon army hat, and behind him there's an Android 17 plushy. So he's a fan. You'll rarely see a human reach nirvana at the reveal.
Didn't like it much, still prefer the reaction of people on streets or bars watching the episode. Those reaction videos got tiring very fast on YouTube.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:31 am

foxfang4 wrote:It seems a lot of people here think they really know how Goku is. That Goku simply doesn't give up based on his own love for battle. When has this been the case? The biggest moment of Goku "giving up" was when he realized he couldn't beat Cell. But his "giving up" was actually part of his plan to bring in Gohan after he had studied Cell fighting. Goku's 2nd or 3rd winds due to friends/family/Saiyan pride have been a constant in all of Dragon Ball.

Sure. But this is where execution comes into play. Part of the problem with nearly all of Super is that it contains, at best, sloppy storytelling. Look all of those moments in Dragonball, From Goku finding Krillin's body in Dragonball to Goku witnessing Kuririn's murder in Z, these are traumatic experiences that are "earned" because both shows lay thr groundwork for these moments.

Super doesn't really do any of that. So Goku's "epiphany" just becomes a thing that happens because the plot demands, not because this arc was building towards anything. So yeah, DB and DBZ had similar moments--it just did them better.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Simere » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:35 am

foxfang4 wrote:It seems a lot of people here think they really know how Goku is. That Goku simply doesn't give up based on his own love for battle. When has this been the case?
When? If you're going to obliquely respond to me, at least read what I said:
Image

He's not half so damaged in the battle with Jiren as he is here, yet you guys who aren't bothered believe he will succumb to his fatigue without nakama motivation? Again, if it's just motivation that means it's only drawing on what's already there, so you're saying you think Goku would lie down and die otherwise against Jiren. Really?

And it's not merely about a "love for battle", or that he's a "fight junkie". I won't waste my time responding overmuch to you again, foxfang, since you've shown you won't respond to arguments, but I will call attention to that I've particularly said "a fight like this". Goku can and will quit against an opponent in the right context. It's another demonstration of his purity: he doesn't tie up being inferior with feelings of insecurity; he's not a defeatist about defeat. It's not about protecting his pride from the supposed shame of losing. So, when Goku quit against Cell because he couldn't win and someone else could, I loved it. When he quit against Hit because he couldn't fight on his own terms, I really loved it.

Those weren't fights like this.
Lord Beerus wrote:I don't mind that line at all because context of it isn't entirely unfounded. The third wind Goku needed to attain Ultra Instinct was fueled by him thinking of his friends and family. And had he not unlocked Ultra Instinct when he did, Jiren would have beaten him. So as much as Goku initially attained Ultra Instinct through his own sheer willpower, the subconscious reminder of the people who rely on Goku to save their universe was the spark the ignited the flame for Goku regaining Ultra Instinct and it eventually leading to him mastering the form. So contextually speaking, Goku isn't necessarily in the wrong for declaring Ultra Instinct as "our power".
The full context is that it was a counter point to Jiren's world view, and the point was absurd. It was an answer to a question: "How are you beating me?" I just easily won a match in DBFZ. Imagine if the guy messaged me asking how I'm so much better than him and I said, "Because my mother struggled hard to raise me. I wouldn't be sitting here today without her. I'd also like to give thanks to Charles Babbage, Abraham Lincoln and Oda Nobunaga."

No need to point out that I'm being extremely hyperbolic. :P The point is, even if it's true that Goku came that far because of the support of his allies, and it unquestionably is true, that's nowhere near the main point. So why's it framed like it is?
Master Xar wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Asura wrote:There's nothing inconsistent about it.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
The implication is clear. Complete focus on the battle and disregard for outside factors (such as the 'erasure of the universe') is what allowed Goku to master Ultra Instinct to begin with. His friends are outside factors.
That was the original UI, MUI Goku seems far more conscious and aware of his surroundings, Whis and the Angels have UI passively so MUI seems more conscious and aware.

Plus you can interpret that scene as that he physically or mentally is focused only on the fight not emotionally, because even earlier UI Goku seems to have some emotional attachment to things just not hesitation, fear, etc. like Whis said.
Those screenshots are when he started to master UI:

It looks like there's nothing to worry about. I feel it. An accelerating rise of energy, not from confusion, but from pure impulse. Right now, on Jiren, no, on the fight itself, Goku-san is focusing his heart and soul, heating himself up intensely and wildly. The erasure of the universe. The difference in power. Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames...and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight. In time, he becomes so hot and fast that even such perception grows dim and fades. As he dives into a state deeper than instinct, there he finds...

The way he mastered it was not by thinking of every time his nakama helped him in the tournament, or in his life, but by letting go of all traces of things indifferent to fighting.

Just to be clear, I've never subscribed to the idea that this turns him into some sort of empty husk. That he wasn't talking didn't mean he couldn't talk, just that he was focused on fighting. And it's not wrong to be focused on fighting in a fight. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about them.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:57 am

First of all, I need to mention that I'm not replying here to or addressing anyone in particular.


The writers choice of having Goku receive an extra ounce of determination because of his friends does not, in anyway, undermine or negate his well established pure love for battle. Honestly, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill; it's absurd to assume that Goku would not think of his friends and family when things take a turn for the dire, that their lives would not in any way be contributing factor in hardening his resolve to win.

People have gotten so adamant about him being a battle eccentric that they forget that he can, and has, shown different sides of his character. Yes, he lets Piccolo go because he wants someone out there that could challenge him, but we also know that Kami's life was on the line and we later find out Goku never though Piccolo Jr. was as bad as the original; yes, he lets Vegeta go, but then later regrets it and realizes he might have made a mistake when talking to King Kai. He wants Freeza to give up and come find him once he is stronger, but does very much hate him because of the lives he has hurt. We make fun of the "hope of the universe " speech, but even in the original, Goku very passionately tells Freeza that he has no right to beg for mercy when he himself killed so many. When the Cell Jr. were beating the life out of everyone, Goku asks them all for forgiveness, that he hadn't known this would happen.

And then there is BOG. He straight up tells Beerus that he was dissatisfied with attaining a power that he wasn't able to reach on his own, reminding us how much he cares about his self-improvement and testing his own limits despite impending doom, but as the world was about to be destroyed, his thoughts turn to his friends and family.

In short, his relationship with the people in his life is not his raison d’être , but at crunch time he will think of them.

And in the end, I really think it wasn't as emotionally poignant as people make it out to be. Jiren believes wholeheartedly that he doesn't need to rely on anyone but himself, that the power he attained is because of him and him alone, whereas Goku admits that he got as far as he has due to the help he has received along the way. It's more an issue of fairness, that while he is all about achieving power and victory on his own merits, he recognizes and admits he wouldn't have made it without them. And he is not ashamed of that.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:07 am

Michsi wrote:First of all, I need to mention that I'm not replying here to or addressing anyone in particular.


The writers choice of having Goku receive an extra ounce of determination because of his friends does not, in anyway, undermine or negate his well established pure love for battle. Honestly, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill; it's absurd to assume that Goku would not think of his friends and family when things take a turn for the dire, that their lives would not in any way be contributing factor in hardening his resolve to win.

People have gotten so adamant about him being a battle eccentric that they forget that he can, and has, shown different sides of his character. Yes, he lets Piccolo go because he wants someone out there that could challenge him, but we also know that Kami's life was on the line and we later find out Goku never though Piccolo Jr. was as bad as the original; yes, he lets Vegeta go, but then later regrets it and realizes he might have made a mistake when talking to King Kai. He wants Freeza to give up and come find him once he is stronger, but does very much hate him because of the lives he has hurt. We make fun of the "hope of the universe " speech, but even in the original, Goku very passionately tells Freeza that he has no right to beg for mercy when he himself killed so many. When the Cell Jr. were beating the life out of everyone, Goku asks them all for forgiveness, that he hadn't known this would happen.

And then there is BOG. He straight up tells Beerus that he was dissatisfied with attaining a power that he wasn't able to reach on his own, reminding us how much he cares about his self-improvement and testing his own limits despite impending doom, but as the world was about to be destroyed, his thoughts turn to his friends and family.

In short, his relationship with the people in his life is not his raison d’être , but at crunch time he will think of them.

And in the end, I really think it wasn't as emotionally poignant as people make it out to be. Jiren believes wholeheartedly that he doesn't need to rely on anyone but himself, that the power he attained is because of him and him alone, whereas Goku admits that he got as far as he has due to the help he has received along the way. It's more an issue of fairness, that while he is all about achieving power and victory on his own merits, he recognizes and admits he wouldn't have made it without them. And he is not ashamed of that.
You put it better than I really could've. Maybe :P

But seriously, this really sums up how folks like you and I felt. In critical moments, Goku will think of his friends and family. As much as he'd like to do things all on his own, he only got this far BECAUSE of everyone counting on and supporting him. When Jiren can't see the value in this, Goku shows him. Simple as that.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:14 am

Michsi wrote:First of all, I need to mention that I'm not replying here to or addressing anyone in particular.


The writers choice of having Goku receive an extra ounce of determination because of his friends does not, in anyway, undermine or negate his well established pure love for battle. Honestly, I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill; it's absurd to assume that Goku would not think of his friends and family when things take a turn for the dire, that their lives would not in any way be contributing factor in hardening his resolve to win.

People have gotten so adamant about him being a battle eccentric that they forget that he can, and has, shown different sides of his character. Yes, he lets Piccolo go because he wants someone out there that could challenge him, but we also know that Kami's life was on the line and we later find out Goku never though Piccolo Jr. was as bad as the original; yes, he lets Vegeta go, but then later regrets it and realizes he might have made a mistake when talking to King Kai. He wants Freeza to give up and come find him once he is stronger, but does very much hate him because of the lives he has hurt. We make fun of the "hope of the universe " speech, but even in the original, Goku very passionately tells Freeza that he has no right to beg for mercy when he himself killed so many. When the Cell Jr. were beating the life out of everyone, Goku asks them all for forgiveness, that he hadn't known this would happen.

And then there is BOG. He straight up tells Beerus that he was dissatisfied with attaining a power that he wasn't able to reach on his own, reminding us how much he cares about his self-improvement and testing his own limits despite impending doom, but as the world was about to be destroyed, his thoughts turn to his friends and family.

In short, his relationship with the people in his life is not his raison d’être , but at crunch time he will think of them.

And in the end, I really think it wasn't as emotionally poignant as people make it out to be. Jiren believes wholeheartedly that he doesn't need to rely on anyone but himself, that the power he attained is because of him and him alone, whereas Goku admits that he got as far as he has due to the help he has received along the way. It's more an issue of fairness, that while he is all about achieving power and victory on his own merits, he recognizes and admits he wouldn't have made it without them. And he is not ashamed of that.
It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:18 am

Hawk9211 wrote:It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Now, see, that's another major difference between trains of thought.

Folks like myself didn't feel that way about it.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:47 am

Hawk9211 wrote: It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Power-ups, big battles, tournaments, enemies turned rivals turned friends- all of these are 'generic shonen' and DB has them in abundance, too. You could even say it wrote the book on some of them.
DB steers clear of the "we fight as one" trope 95% of the time, so it's something of note when they do use it. They save it for crucial moments. Also, the way Buu was defeated in end, with Goku literally receiving power from everyone he's ever met, going as far as showing characters he hadn't seen since he was twelve, was as hammy as it could get but I don't see people complaining about that.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:04 am

Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Power-ups, big battles, tournaments, enemies turned rivals turned friends- all of these are 'generic shonen' and DB has them in abundance, too. You could even say it wrote the book on some of them.
DB steers clear of the "we fight as one" trope 95% of the time, so it's something of note when they do use it. They save it for crucial moments. Also, the way Buu was defeated in end, with Goku literally receiving power from everyone he's ever met, going as far as showing characters he hadn't seen since he was twelve, was as hammy as it could get but I don't see people complaining about that.
Most of ideas in fiction are generic,how you execute them makes distinct.If you check the thread in my signature,you can clearly see that dragon ball took most of this stuff from existing or I would even say popular stuff.Toriyama even turned db into martial arts and tournaments because it was popular.At this point,let's just agree to disagree.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:05 am

Hawk9211 wrote:It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Which is actually a good thing considering the massive amount of crap episodes this arc has had.

I can't understand how anyone could have disliked this episode, really.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:23 am

Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Power-ups, big battles, tournaments, enemies turned rivals turned friends- all of these are 'generic shonen' and DB has them in abundance, too. You could even say it wrote the book on some of them.
DB steers clear of the "we fight as one" trope 95% of the time, so it's something of note when they do use it. They save it for crucial moments. Also, the way Buu was defeated in end, with Goku literally receiving power from everyone he's ever met, going as far as showing characters he hadn't seen since he was twelve, was as hammy as it could get but I don't see people complaining about that.
The difference between the two is that the Boo arc was a lot more subtle in its execution. It was still the end of the series, a final battle against an unbeatable opponent, yet when Goku turned the tables, Toriyama didn't have a character vocalize that Goku only got this far because of his friends and that he's only beating Boo because he has everyone's help, nor was it all accompanied by a nostalgic flashback of the series' events. You didn't need to because it was clear subtext. The theme was understated for a reason, because the audience can figure it out on their own. The closest thing we got to something being pointed out directly to the audience was Vegeta's respect speech, but even that was something inherently specific to his character arc and original; it was something unmistakably Dragon Ball and you can't confuse it for anything else. I know it sounds ridiculous, but subtlety and nuance is what sets Dragon Ball apart from its lesser successors.

The need for Toei to, like any other Shounen, verbalize something that was always very clear subtext in every fight Goku has ever gone through is asinine and, like Cipher said, shows the level of disconnect between Toriyama's and Toei's way of approaching storytelling and, in my opinion, really shows the demographic they're aiming towards. I don't think anyone here has a problem with Goku's characterization or the themes in this episode specifically, taken in isolation. The problem lies with the execution, that always has been the complaint.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Simere » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:34 am

Doctor. wrote:I don't think anyone here has a problem with Goku's characterization or the themes in this episode specifically, taken in isolation.
I do, though I think I'm the only one.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:47 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Power-ups, big battles, tournaments, enemies turned rivals turned friends- all of these are 'generic shonen' and DB has them in abundance, too. You could even say it wrote the book on some of them.
DB steers clear of the "we fight as one" trope 95% of the time, so it's something of note when they do use it. They save it for crucial moments. Also, the way Buu was defeated in end, with Goku literally receiving power from everyone he's ever met, going as far as showing characters he hadn't seen since he was twelve, was as hammy as it could get but I don't see people complaining about that.
Most of ideas in fiction are generic,how you execute them makes distinct.If you check the thread in my signature,you can clearly see that dragon ball took most of this stuff from existing or I would even say popular stuff.Toriyama even turned db into martial arts and tournaments because it was popular.At this point,let's just agree to disagree.
Writing the book on something doesn't mean inventing it, and regardless, it was executed about as well as I'd expect from DB. Could it have been done better? Sure, a lot things could have. I'm generally sensitive to overdramatic moments and cringe when things go too Hollywood.
As for what's in your signature, I've said all there is to say about this subject, but I just gotta mention that you yourself have said that it's generic shonen, and so I reiterate- that's a very correct description of DB.
Doctor. wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: It is not about thinking about friends that has always been a sub text.The way it was done feels like any generic shonen.
Power-ups, big battles, tournaments, enemies turned rivals turned friends- all of these are 'generic shonen' and DB has them in abundance, too. You could even say it wrote the book on some of them.
DB steers clear of the "we fight as one" trope 95% of the time, so it's something of note when they do use it. They save it for crucial moments. Also, the way Buu was defeated in end, with Goku literally receiving power from everyone he's ever met, going as far as showing characters he hadn't seen since he was twelve, was as hammy as it could get but I don't see people complaining about that.
The difference between the two is that the Boo arc was a lot more subtle in its execution. It was still the end of the series, a final battle against an unbeatable opponent, yet when Goku turned the tables, Toriyama didn't have a character vocalize that Goku only got this far because of his friends and that he's only beating Boo because he has everyone's help, nor was it all accompanied by a nostalgic flashback of the series' events. You didn't need to because it was clear subtext. The theme was understated for a reason, because the audience can figure it out on their own. The closest thing we got to something being pointed out directly to the audience was Vegeta's respect speech, but even that was something inherently specific to his character arc and original. I know it sounds ridiculous, but subtlety and nuance is what sets Dragon Ball apart from its lesser successors.

The need for Toei to verbalize something that was always very clear subtext in every fight Goku has ever gone through, like any other Shounen, is asinine and, like Cipher said, shows the level of disconnect between Toriyama's and Toei's way of approaching storytelling and, in my opinion, really shows the demographic they're aiming towards.
Here is the issue though, it wasn't. Not anymore. DBS went all-out with establishing "Goku's not a hero/fights for himself' to the point it might have painted him in a harsher light than they intended. My guess is that they chose to have Jiren embody this solitarian worldview specifically so they could write in Goku's opposing perspective. The writers said it themselves, the main cast is an assemble of characters that are reserved and close-mouthed when it comes to these things so it takes some serious prompting to have them be upfront with how close they are.
Does anyone remember how the team-work strategy faltered almost from the beginning, how unwilling a lot of them were to even try it, how Beerus couldn't get them to form a unit and stick together? They made it a point to show they aren't well versed when it comes to fighting together aside from pair-ups between characters that know each other very well (Gohan&Piccolo; 17&18) Yet despite their individualistic attitude, they still are a group of people that value, respect and care for one another (mostly, please excuse the inclusion of Freeza in this heartfelt diatribe) There was a recurring theme they were going for here, which may not have come together as well as it could have, but neither was it the worst they could've done with it.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:35 am

Simere wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I don't mind that line at all because context of it isn't entirely unfounded. The third wind Goku needed to attain Ultra Instinct was fueled by him thinking of his friends and family. And had he not unlocked Ultra Instinct when he did, Jiren would have beaten him. So as much as Goku initially attained Ultra Instinct through his own sheer willpower, the subconscious reminder of the people who rely on Goku to save their universe was the spark the ignited the flame for Goku regaining Ultra Instinct and it eventually leading to him mastering the form. So contextually speaking, Goku isn't necessarily in the wrong for declaring Ultra Instinct as "our power".
The full context is that it was a counter point to Jiren's world view, and the point was absurd. It was an answer to a question: "How are you beating me?" I just easily won a match in DBFZ. Imagine if the guy messaged me asking how I'm so much better than him and I said, "Because my mother struggled hard to raise me. I wouldn't be sitting here today without her. I'd also like to give thanks to Charles Babbage, Abraham Lincoln and Oda Nobunaga."

No need to point out that I'm being extremely hyperbolic. :P The point is, even if it's true that Goku came that far because of the support of his allies, and it unquestionably is true, that's nowhere near the main point. So why's it framed like it is?
That wasn't the context of the counter argument to Jiren. Jiren was more perplexed as to how Goku could become so strong, in attaining Mastreed Ultra Instinct in the first, and counterpoint was that Goku only became this strong because of the support of his allies... which is true. Damn near every major power up/transformation Goku has gotten in this series is because of the unconditional assistance he's received from friend and family. So while Jiren thinks that having allies in meaningless in attaining strength, it's not because Goku has only become as power as he has through other giving him a significant helping hand.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Simere » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:That wasn't the context of the counter argument to Jiren. Jiren was more perplexed as to how Goku could become so strong, in attaining Mastreed Ultra Instinct in the first, and counterpoint was that Goku only became this strong because of the support of his allies... which is true. Damn near every major power up/transformation Goku has gotten in this series is because of the unconditional assistance he's received from friend and family. So while Jiren thinks that having allies in meaningless in attaining strength, it's not because Goku has only become as power as he has through other giving him a significant helping hand.
I don't see much difference in the two contexts we posed. Either way, Jiren's perplexity is not answered by "he became this strong because of the support of his allies", nor do I believe it's the central answer for Goku's power at any other point in the series. Where did support get Vegeta in this tournament? Far short of Jiren, far short of UI. Where did it get Gohan? Kuririn? Obuni? Where did it get the centillions of other beings living in the universes that aren't even as strong as Mr. Satan?

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:56 pm

What I'm most upset about is that this episode turned UI into a joke. """""""Mastered""""""" UI Goku wasn't dodging shit for most of the fight. I knew UI would get devalued eventually but I wasn't expecting it to happen so soon.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:13 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:But, people don't seem to understand that just because he lived, it doesn't mean his sacrifice was worthless.
Yes it was. The emotional investment was gone and I can't believe in what I gonna say: I never though I would dislike any other character like I did with Trunks in the previous arc because of his asspulls, but I gave a pass since the arc has his name... But is ToP called Android #17 arc? No. If he stayed death it would be heroic and iconic.
It's still heroic and iconic despite surviving. he still did it and it was still great. what, is he not heroic because he survived lol? is it not an iconic moment cause he survived? ofc it still is.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

Nero<>Akira
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:14 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:What I'm most upset about is that this episode turned UI into a joke. """""""Mastered""""""" UI Goku wasn't dodging shit for most of the fight. I knew UI would get devalued eventually but I wasn't expecting it to happen so soon.
Because Jiren is that powerful LOL Goku was dodging damn near every single shot Jiren tried to give him after Jiren tried to kill everyone in the bench.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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