How strong do you think Freeza could have become?

[Orochi_Rockman]

From what I've seen of Freeza he spent his whole life pretty much avoiding having to deal with his power level. He created various forms that use smaller amounts of ki and even floats around in a chair.

Being the pampered alien that he was he relied only on the fact that he was so insanely freaking powerful to get him through any situation without having to worry about being a skilled fighter.

So what if Freeza was the opposite? What if instead of running away from his potential he embraced it and spent his life training himself and attempting to push his limits, grow stronger, and become a better fighter?

12,000,000 is a hell of a place to be at when you start training.

[I like DB(Z) (...)]

If he did train his entire life, most likely he would not need the Saiyans to wipe out the Planets for him. That and he'd be so powerful we would have an even more insanely powerful Goku that needs to kick his ass Shonen style.

[FindKenshi]

12,000,000 is a hell of a place to be at when you start training.

The Daizenshuu says he was at 120,000,000 at 100% power, doesn't it? Anyway I'm not saying that it should be taken as fact, but I'd say that makes much more sense then 12,000,000. After all, Piccolo was around 1 million or so, and he said that both Goku and Freeza's powers were beyond his ability to comprehend or even measure when Gohan asked if his father would win. Given that this statement is made BEFORE Freeza was at 50% of his power, I'd say if you really think that 100% = 12 million, then Freeza was only around 4 million or so when Piccolo said that?

Quadruple your power is a vast difference in Dragonball, but so much so that he can't even comprehend it and tell who's stronger then who? I don't buy that. I think the Daiz numbers actually work quite well when we see the level of Freeza's superiority.

Well now sorry to have gotten a bit off topic.

I don't think Freeza's body can handle his own freakishly high power that well. Freeza knew he could only stay at full power for a short duration of time, hence him wanting to doom Namek first. Goku even pointed that fact out. "You want to go fight now? [He's just announced Namek only has 5 minutes left] Maybe it's because you know your body can't handle your full power."

I think the best Feeza could do is make it so his full power doesn't really drain him anymore, by trying to stay powered up as long as he could (and hope it doesnt give him heart failure), similar to how Goku and Gohan powered up in the Room of Spirit and Time. As for actually increasing his max power? Meh, sure, why not. It's a possibility, I just don't think it's very likely.

[Orochi_Rockman]

12 million, 120 million whatever. I've never been one to try and keep up with that stuff.

I think he could have done a little better than just being able to stay fully powered up. I mean the reason he couldn't stand his full power was because he's never really tried to.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

So what if Freeza was the opposite? What if instead of running away from his potential he embraced it and spent his life training himself and attempting to push his limits, grow stronger, and become a better fighter?

Given Dragonball logic and one of the main lessons the series tries to teach, through Gokou in particular as well as other characters, the power you're born with or gain frivelously pales in comparison to someone who could otherwise be considered 'lesser' if they have honed themselves and surpassed the limits of their limits. This shows itself constantly throughout the series as a main theme, though it's really beaten over your head with fights like Gokou vs. Vegeta (/the entire rivalry thing goin' on there...), Gokou vs. Body-Changed Ginyu, Gokou vs. Freeza and Gohan vs. Cell.

All of these fights show a fighter who would naturally pale in comparison to the natural gifts of their opponent, yet finds a means to surpass them by surpassing their own limits. So yeah, if Freeza wasn't uber confident in his status of being the strongest of the strong, and trained to become even stronger than THAT, stronger than HIMSELF, then I think regardless of whether he used his powers for evil as opposed to justice, there's just no effing way Gokou, who underwent the same practices but was cast from a lower stalk, could have beaten him.

The way it works in the series is like the tortoise and the hare in a twisted sense...Freeza, the hare, was too confident in his 'head start' (his amazing power, whether he was born with it or aquired it some other way; the series never explains it so let's call it 'natural' for the sake of argument), so he didn't bother getting his hands dirty or improving that already-existant skill to win the race. And it's not like he should have been ignorant to it either, though, considering his fears of the Saiyajin rising up to overthrow him, even if he was confident no one existed AT THE TIME who was stronger than him (what was Koola's line in Movie #5 exactly? Something like how Freeza sewed the seeds himself and would have to deal with them himself or something? Like, 'you asked for it, bro' kinda thing?). But he decided to have henchmen, ruled by the fear of the power he never even needed to do more than PROJECT without lifting a finger, do his work for him. Gokou, the tortoise, took his time to train himself beyond his limits and work hard, proving that he could win the race through that hard work even if he was, from the get-go, a 'slower' specimen than his opponent.

But let's assume the hare doesn't get cocky. He's still at base faster than the tortoise, duh. So he's still got that whole 'natural head start' thing going for him, BUT IN ADDITION, decides to train even above and beyond THAT. No matter how hard the tortoise trains to surpass HIS limits, if the hare is doing the exact same thing, AND already has a natural head start, then of course the tortoise is still going to pale in comparison. I guess another unrelated but DBZ-verse example of this would be how Kuririn and Tenshinhan are both humans who have trained to surpass their limits, and continue to do so through the end of the series. Whether they become bit parts by the end of the series compared to the others is irrelivant because even so, put Kuririn and Tenshinhan as of the end of DBZ side by side and it's clear that Tenshinhan will still be the stronger of the two, because at base he was just stronger than Kuririn; had more advantages in endurance and general toughness in terms of physique, size, etc. But they both worked just as hard to get there and reached beyond their limitations...but going through the same practices, Tenshinhan would still be stronger, because of those natural advantages he has over Kuririn.

Does that make sense? Meaning, had Freeza undergone the same rigorous training Gokou underwent, and went the same distance above his own limits that Gokou went beyond his own, Freeza would still have the distinct far-and-above advantage because he'd have that 'natural' boost in addition to everything he worked to get. Since Gokou's 'natural' power would be lower than Freeza's, if they both took the same methods and went the same distance above and beyond their limits...Freeza would PWN Gokou no matter how hard Gokou trained.

So yeah...were Freeza a bit more motivated, he'd have been one badass mofo. Srsly.

[Rocketman]

Freeza would PWN Gokou no matter how hard Gokou trained.

Until the power of the Super Saiyan awoke and Goku tore Freeza in half.

[NeptuneKai]

Freeza would PWN Gokou no matter how hard Gokou trained.

Until the power of the Super Saiyan awoke and Goku tore Freeza in half.

Well actually Frieza defeated Frieza.

or at least cut himself in half

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Freeza would PWN Gokou no matter how hard Gokou trained.

Until the power of the Super Saiyan awoke and Goku tore Freeza in half.

Not really. I'm considering the potential for Super Saiyajin in the 'natural' potential for Gokou. And the Freeza who would care enough to train would, in my mind, lose a great deal of that cockiness because if he was still that cocky, he'd still have henchmen do his dirty work, and paradoxial loop WTFz. But without that cocky attitude Freeza may use his transformations more wisely, and at his 100%, if we assume he and SSJ Gokou were on equal footing, and that Freeza is the one who got himself killed by having that stupid cocky attitude, then I still don't think Gokou could beat the new-and-improved Freeza.

[Orochi_Rockman]

Freeza would PWN Gokou no matter how hard Gokou trained.

Until the power of the Super Saiyan awoke and Goku tore Freeza in half.

Not likely.

The Freeza that Supaa Gohan and I can see in our grand visions is a Freeza that is not pampered but trains to push himself to the very limits of his ability. And thusly, this Freeza would not fuck around with Goku just for shits and giggles like the pampered Freeza.

As soon as this Freeza realized he wasn't getting his wish from the Dragon Balls he would have flown up into space and wiped out Namek in an instant with a mere thought.

[caejones]

Random off topic comment: Goku being the tortus and from the turtle school of martial arts is perfect.

Ah yes, the wonderful opportunities for non-stupidity in the Freeza Saga...

[Toriyama Boss]

Was Freeza stronger with the robotic parts pr weaker?
Was it ever hinted at in the manga?

[Rocketman]

Was Freeza stronger with the robotic parts pr weaker?
Was it ever hinted at in the manga?

Given that he looked like he was held together with duct tape and spit... I dunno.

[Mike D]

I like SG2's breakdown of what Freeza would have become had he trained to become stronger. When you think about the Goku and Freeza comparison it reminds me of an athletic quote: "Hardwork(Goku) beats talent when talent(Freeza) doesn't work hard.'

The two comments afterwards, explaining how Freeza would have handled business differently, are very true as well.

[Godo]

Was Freeza stronger with the robotic parts pr weaker?
Was it ever hinted at in the manga?

I think he said that he had raised a bit in powerlevel, and that with the help of his father he could defeat Goku.

[Tyro]

Freeza stated that he was "new and improved" in the beginning. Later, he states he's more powerful than before.

[Toriyama Boss]

Freeza stated that he was "new and improved" in the beginning. Later, he states he's more powerful than before.

Thank you so much.

I wanted to know another fact from the comic.

In Freeza's battle against Super Saiya-jin Goku Freeza was going to destroy the planet in one shot but the blast only reaches the core?
What did Freeza say his reason was for not one-shotting Planet Namek?
Was it because he lost a lot of power fighting Goku?

[Kaboom]

Goku was the one who figured out why. Freeza held back so that the explosion wouldn't be TOO large, and thus hurt him as well. But he accidentally held back TOO much, and didn't end up blowing up the planet in one shot like he'd wanted to.

[SSJmole]

Well actually Freeza defeated Freeza.

or at least cut himself in half

He's right

[Toriyama Boss]

Goku was the one who figured out why. Freeza held back so that the explosion wouldn't be TOO large, and thus hurt him as well. But he accidentally held back TOO much, and didn't end up blowing up the planet in one shot like he'd wanted to.

Do you have the actual dialogue of what Freeza said? Cause I am not at home but I believe it was Volume 27 chapter 320 or 321 IIRC.

Thanks.

[MisterFlashdude]

Goku was the one who figured out why. Freeza held back so that the explosion wouldn't be TOO large, and thus hurt him as well. But he accidentally held back TOO much, and didn't end up blowing up the planet in one shot like he'd wanted to.

Do you have the actual dialogue of what Freeza said? Cause I am not at home but I believe it was Volume 27 chapter 320 or 321 IIRC.

Thanks.

Freeza: Damn...!! I held back too much...!!
Goku: You were afraid of getting caught in the planet's explosion. You blew it. Of course, that saved me...
Freeza: Saved? Heh Heh Heh... That's what you think...
Freeza: You escaped an instantaneous explosion of the planet.. But I detonated the core.. Do you know what that means? Within five minutes, the core will explode on its own... And Namek will be dust...