How do you define a good dub?

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Cure Dragon 255
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:54 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
Bajosexto wrote: Having faithful translated scripts should be a top priority when dubbing a foreign product. It isn't a dub's job to create a new show. It shouldn't replace music, change characters personalities, change characters names, change/add/remove dialogue, etc. A dub is basically a very expensive translation. And translations have to be faithful to its source. If there not, then it isn't a translation. Your just making stuff up.
You don't watch Looney Tunes, PPG, or X-Men do you? They had name changes in Spanish. Saw so when turning on the Spanish track out of curiosity.

As for things with changes, it can depend depending on how yo look at things. For example Voltron and Saber Rider are different from Go-Lion and Space Musketeer Bismark. Especially the latter which is more adaptation at times with their changes. But they did better in America than the Japanese originals did in Japan.
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Ripper 30 wrote: Compared to most of Dragon Ball Dubs, These Dubs are Masterpieces.
One thing that I like about Naruto's dub is that they manage to get people like Jennifer Hale, Ali Hillis, Wil Wheaton, Nolan North and Keone Young to be in the dubs.
Well Naruto was also a Union production and that's how they got them in there. Heck their lead is more known for being in live action movies and tv shows. Though she has done voice-over, including winning an Emmy for doing so, which shut up many of her critics. Snobby otaku still complained and said they'd rather maim themselves than watching "Baby stuff like that", (Back then snobby American otaku tended to hate kids' cartoons on PBS) but still.
Sorry dude, but the name of the game is "GOOD DUB" while Voltron and Saber RIder might be good shows They CERTAINLY arent good dubs. Also PPG changed names to be more accurate with the intent of the Creator. Bombon, Burbuja and Bellota may not be accurate translations of Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup...but they all start with B. That's the joke. Because Retoño and Copa de Manteca which are the "correct" names of Blossom and Buttercup dont start with B. This ruins the later joke where Prof Utonium is naming the girls and Buttercup was "The last name that began with B that he could think of". So name changes are warranted in such a situation.

X-Men you might have more of a point, especially since almost every name is changed...But the plot is the same. Guepardo does the EXACT same things Wolverine does in English. Ciclope is an accurate translation of Cyclops. No silly dub inventions there.

Looney Tunes I cant defend at all...but then again, I never liked the Looney Tunes anyway.
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90sDBZ wrote:
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by DragonBallKing » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:00 pm

Are name changes for pokemon anymore valid/official than the name alterations in DBZ(Tien, Korin, Shenron) or 4kids Piece(Zolo, Chaser, Trace)? :think:
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Bajosexto » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:54 pm

DragonBallKing wrote:Are name changes for pokemon anymore valid/official than the name alterations in DBZ(Tien, Korin, Shenron) or 4kids Piece(Zolo, Chaser, Trace)? :think:
That's a really good question. First, they certainly are official as they were used in official dubs. I really don't know much about Pokemon, but apparently all the names are different in English from the original Japanese. Except for Pikachu. I guess you could say they're valid names but they're not the names. If that makes any sense. It also depends if the name was translated, adapted or completely changed from the original.

A translated name is 100% valid in my opinion as it is the equivalent name in that particular language. For instance, translating SpongeBob to Bob Esponja, Kame-Sen'nin to Turtle Hermit/Sage or Homer to Homero.

A name adaptation would be valid in my opinion but I can see why someone would not consider a valid name. An example would be how Hatchan was adapted to Octavio and Eighter in the Latin American and FUNi dubs.

A completely changed name from the original is not a valid name in my opinion. I don't care if it is 100% official in English, Spanish, French etc. Sure it may be an official name, but it is not the name. I'm talking about changing Son Goku to Zero, Tenshinhan to Tien, Son Gohan to Songohanda, Muten Roshi to Maestro Roshi. That kind of stuff.

Going back to your question, it depends if the English Pokemon names are direct translations, adaptations or flat out name changes. I'd considered them more valid than the FUNi name alterations if they are just direct translations or adaptations of the Japanese names.

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Super Sonic » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:15 pm

With video games, name changes are usually looked at as exception with folks usually not caring about name changes. Also the thing with a lot of Pokemon is that their Japanese names are just English words. It's punny in Japanese, but in English it sounds lame and unimaginative.

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by ConfusedPhantom » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:20 pm

People already said what I was going to say, so put it short, it needs to feel like the same show and it has to have voice acting that fits the energy of that show. So, if you're not going balls-to-the-wall with your screams, you're doing Dragon Ball wrong. haha

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:02 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:
Bajosexto wrote: Having faithful translated scripts should be a top priority when dubbing a foreign product. It isn't a dub's job to create a new show. It shouldn't replace music, change characters personalities, change characters names, change/add/remove dialogue, etc. A dub is basically a very expensive translation. And translations have to be faithful to its source. If there not, then it isn't a translation. Your just making stuff up.
You don't watch Looney Tunes, PPG, or X-Men do you? They had name changes in Spanish. Saw so when turning on the Spanish track out of curiosity.

As for things with changes, it can depend depending on how yo look at things. For example Voltron and Saber Rider are different from Go-Lion and Space Musketeer Bismark. Especially the latter which is more adaptation at times with their changes. But they did better in America than the Japanese originals did in Japan.
8000 Saiyan wrote: One thing that I like about Naruto's dub is that they manage to get people like Jennifer Hale, Ali Hillis, Wil Wheaton, Nolan North and Keone Young to be in the dubs.
Well Naruto was also a Union production and that's how they got them in there. Heck their lead is more known for being in live action movies and tv shows. Though she has done voice-over, including winning an Emmy for doing so, which shut up many of her critics. Snobby otaku still complained and said they'd rather maim themselves than watching "Baby stuff like that", (Back then snobby American otaku tended to hate kids' cartoons on PBS) but still.
Sorry dude, but the name of the game is "GOOD DUB" while Voltron and Saber RIder might be good shows They CERTAINLY arent good dubs. Also PPG changed names to be more accurate with the intent of the Creator. Bombon, Burbuja and Bellota may not be accurate translations of Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup...but they all start with B. That's the joke. Because Retoño and Copa de Manteca which are the "correct" names of Blossom and Buttercup dont start with B. This ruins the later joke where Prof Utonium is naming the girls and Buttercup was "The last name that began with B that he could think of". So name changes are warranted in such a situation.

X-Men you might have more of a point, especially since almost every name is changed...But the plot is the same. Guepardo does the EXACT same things Wolverine does in English. Ciclope is an accurate translation of Cyclops. No silly dub inventions there.

Looney Tunes I cant defend at all...but then again, I never liked the Looney Tunes anyway.
The Voltron dub might not be spectacular, but I thought that Peter Cullen gave good performances as Coran and King Alfor. Man, I miss when Cullen got to show off his range.
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:12 am

I meant on faithfulness. Voltron is a terrible dub if faithfulness is to go by, and not just if you are a weaboo. The diferencess between Voltron and Golion are so vast that it counts as its own thing.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I will not be satisfied until my pessimism crushes your spirit.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Super Sonic » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:38 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I meant on faithfulness. Voltron is a terrible dub if faithfulness is to go by, and not just if you are a weaboo. The diferencess between Voltron and Golion are so vast that it counts as its own thing.
Some things were like that way back when. The extras on the dvds said back then they tended to just go "whatever" as folks had seen on "Battle of the Planets". "G-Force" was truer to Gatchaman despite the lame names for characters, and didn't have the lame robot. BOTP fans hate it with a passion. Though some folks say that's different as it was before the internet.

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Firebolt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:08 am

- It has to be faithful to the original. Names, dialouge, personality, etc.
- The screams/battle cries have to be decent.
- The acting has to be good.
- The voices have to fit the characters.
- The voice for every character has to be unique in some way as to not be generic.

I'm completely fine with replacement music, so long as it's not generic, forgettable garbage.

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:29 am

Bajosexto wrote:
DragonBallKing wrote:Are name changes for pokemon anymore valid/official than the name alterations in DBZ(Tien, Korin, Shenron) or 4kids Piece(Zolo, Chaser, Trace)? :think:
That's a really good question. First, they certainly are official as they were used in official dubs. I really don't know much about Pokemon, but apparently all the names are different in English from the original Japanese. Except for Pikachu. I guess you could say they're valid names but they're not the names. If that makes any sense. It also depends if the name was translated, adapted or completely changed from the original.

A translated name is 100% valid in my opinion as it is the equivalent name in that particular language. For instance, translating SpongeBob to Bob Esponja, Kame-Sen'nin to Turtle Hermit/Sage or Homer to Homero.

A name adaptation would be valid in my opinion but I can see why someone would not consider a valid name. An example would be how Hatchan was adapted to Octavio and Eighter in the Latin American and FUNi dubs.

A completely changed name from the original is not a valid name in my opinion. I don't care if it is 100% official in English, Spanish, French etc. Sure it may be an official name, but it is not the name. I'm talking about changing Son Goku to Zero, Tenshinhan to Tien, Son Gohan to Songohanda, Muten Roshi to Maestro Roshi. That kind of stuff.

Going back to your question, it depends if the English Pokemon names are direct translations, adaptations or flat out name changes. I'd considered them more valid than the FUNi name alterations if they are just direct translations or adaptations of the Japanese names.
More than just Pikachu kept their Japanese names. Lugia, Raichu, Suicine, Entei, Raikou, Caterpie, Butterfree, Arbok, Paras are just some of the ones off the top of my head that have the same name in both versions.

Also in the case of Pokemon all the names pretty much come directly from Nintendo of America since the dub had to match names with whatever Nintendo of America was localizing the games too.

Also tbh? Some of the Japanese names of the pokemon are effin terrible. Like the legendary birds being called Freezer, Thunder, and Fire. Oh and Jolteons Japanese name is Thunders (with a s in the end) so the first gen literally has a Pokemon called Thunders and another called Thunder with no relation. or Charmeleon's name is literally LIZARD in english or Haunter's name just being GHOST. And a lot of the names would have just been hard for kids to pronounce like Hitokage, Fushigidane, Zenigame. So whether it was making the names easier for english speaking kids to remember/pronounce or more cooler and less lame NoA made the right call regarding Pokemon

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by johnboy1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:52 pm

A "good dub" and an "accurate dub" are not necessarily the same thing. For an admittedly extreme example, Samurai Pizza Cats is an absolutely fantastic dub of Cat Ninden Teyandê... but the script was completely rewritten from scratch, based on nothing but what the writers could see on-screen. It would be difficult to make a less accurate dub if you tried, but that didn't keep it from being good.

The act of dubbing is not simply utilitarian in nature: It's a creative process in and of itself, separate even from the creative process of the original work. Accuracy is but one aspect of it.
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:15 pm

Please, lets not mince words, Samurai Pizza Cats makes so much changes it is very much a thing of it's own. It is NOT A GOOD DUB because it goes way beyond what a dub is supposed to do. Its a great show but ITS NOT A GOOD DUB.
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90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by johnboy1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Please, lets not mince words, Samurai Pizza Cats makes so much changes it is very much a thing of it's own. It is NOT A GOOD DUB because it goes way beyond what a dub is supposed to do. Its a great show but ITS NOT A GOOD DUB.
That's where your entire mindset is misframed: Dubs are already their own things, whether they stick close to the original script or not. They're not inherently "supposed" to do anything. Their goals are determined by the creative minds behind them, not somehow bestowed upon them by their very nature.
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:30 pm

I would prefer a dub to stand on its own merits. This is why for example even though the VIZ dub of Sailor Moon is faithful and technically a better dub than the old DiC dub I don't like it because of the flat voice acting, half the cast sounds exactly the same, and the dialog doesn't really work in English a lot. Like I'll watch the Dic dub if I want to see an enjoyable Sailor Moon show in English, I'll watch the Japanese version if I want to watch how it's meant to be seen.

Kai has a faithful script but it stands on its own nothing sounds terribly awkward and (most) of the performances are great. Even Colleen isn't horrible just a bit too feminine and try hard.

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:25 am

While I do agree with MasenkoHa, (Except that I do like the Viz Dub better) dubs should definitely be enjoyable on their own. I most DEFINITELY dont agree with johnboy. This is the kind of thinking that gets anime massacred by some dumb companies that think they too can get the next Voltron or Samurai Pizza Cats or whatever. Dubs, if they share the same title as the original, MOST DEFINITELY should be faithful to the original! Also, dubs like Glitter Force should DIE. Do you really want to see the next 4kids One Piece. And even if you dont care for One Piece, what happened to it is about the worst thing that can happen to an anime.

Also someone mentioned BattleOfThePlanets. I love that show, even if I like Gatchaman even better!
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I will not be satisfied until my pessimism crushes your spirit.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by GamerSkull » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:21 pm

Accurate subs with the only deviations being where the japanese cannot be properly translated into English or whatever language the dub is.

Stuff like Kakarot instead of Kakaroto is fine though... so them needing to play around with Veggeto/Vegito/Vegerot might be a bit more understandable.
But Kuririn should not be Krillin... and Makankosappo should not be Special Beam Cannon. Stupid name changes like that should be avoided.
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by johnboy1 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:57 pm

GamerSkull wrote:Accurate subs with the only deviations being where the japanese cannot be properly translated into English or whatever language the dub is.

Stuff like Kakarot instead of Kakaroto is fine though... so them needing to play around with Veggeto/Vegito/Vegerot might be a bit more understandable.
But Kuririn should not be Krillin... and Makankosappo should not be Special Beam Cannon. Stupid name changes like that should be avoided.
"Krillin" isn't a change. It's a legitimate stylized romanization of "クリリン". Obscure vowels like the first "u" can be dropped, and "l" and "r" are infamously interchangeable. It's not remotely comparable to "Special Beam Cannon".
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by GamerSkull » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:18 pm

johnboy1 wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:Accurate subs with the only deviations being where the japanese cannot be properly translated into English or whatever language the dub is.

Stuff like Kakarot instead of Kakaroto is fine though... so them needing to play around with Veggeto/Vegito/Vegerot might be a bit more understandable.
But Kuririn should not be Krillin... and Makankosappo should not be Special Beam Cannon. Stupid name changes like that should be avoided.
"Krillin" isn't a change. It's a legitimate stylized romanization of "クリリン". Obscure vowels like the first "u" can be dropped, and "l" and "r" are infamously interchangeable. It's not remotely comparable to "Special Beam Cannon".
Maybe... but it's weird when you see the Kuririn cap... and the fact that you cannot detect the pun in the "kuri" but I guess that can be attributed to the japanese not being able to properly translate... still Krillin seems like a stupid change.
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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:57 pm

Nonononono! Kulilin! The cap says Kulilin!
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I will not be satisfied until my pessimism crushes your spirit.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How do you define a good dub?

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:19 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Nonononono! Kulilin! The cap says Kulilin!
Oh, my bad. But that is the whole thing the japanese language seems to have with "L"s and "R"s. Not an expert on that though.
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