Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So is it safe to say that MUI Goku is above Vegito Blue?

Yeah, I think so.

It's questionable whether or not Vegito Blue is above or below Beerus, who himself is still within the realm of the Hakaishin as a whole. Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and Hidden Power Unleashed Jiren? Yeah, those two are squarely above that level.

[Hugo Boss]

The question is: in the TOP, who is stronger? Piccolo or A18?

It really depends on your preference. I think Piccolo is stronger because he asked No.18 to get down when he tried to use the explosive demon wave to reveal the invisible warrior’s identity. But when they are at their best there is no telling. Piccolo can momentarily surpass the Super Namekians from U6 and No.18 beat Giant Ribrianne when Kuririn encouraged her.

[Koitsukai]

So is it safe to say that MUI Goku is above Vegito Blue?

I would even go as far as saying Full Power Jiren is above Vegito Blue as well (Zamasu's arc Vegito, of course).

Although, I don't think a TOP Vegito Blue would stand a chance against LB Jiren, he did knock down MUI Goku a couple of times.

[Champa The Destroyer]

So is it safe to say that MUI Goku is above Vegito Blue?

I would even go as far as saying Full Power Jiren is above Vegito Blue as well (Zamasu's arc Vegito, of course).

Although, I don't think a TOP Vegito Blue would stand a chance against LB Jiren, he did knock down MUI Goku a couple of times.

That's what I thought. I don't even think Vegito Blue is as strong as Beerus.

[Bullza]

Yeah it's highly probable Jiren was quite a bit above Vegito.

Vegito wasn't that superior to Zamasu and even the heavily suppressed Jiren was said to be like nobody they'd fought before.

Would Jiren from Episode 109/110 handled Zamasu easier than Merged Zamasu did?

[ankokudaishogun]

So is it safe to say that MUI Goku is above Vegito Blue?

Above the Vegetto Blue during the Future Trunks Saga? yeah.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Yeah it's highly probable Jiren was quite a bit above Vegito.

Vegito wasn't that superior to Zamasu and even the heavily suppressed Jiren was said to be like nobody they'd fought before.

Would Jiren from Episode 109/110 handled Zamasu easier than Merged Zamasu did?

Possibly, since Jiren dominated SSBKK times 20 Goku without even trying.

[ZombieVito]

The question is: in the TOP, who is stronger? Piccolo or A18?

It really depends on your preference. I think Piccolo is stronger because he asked No.18 to get down when he tried to use the explosive demon wave to reveal the invisible warrior’s identity. But when they are at their best there is no telling. Piccolo can momentarily surpass the Super Namekians from U6 and No.18 beat Giant Ribrianne when Kuririn encouraged her.

To add to this.

Gamisaras was stronger than/same level as 18, he broke her defense by pure force and overwhelmed her without issues.

Piccolo consider him to be nothing and beat him easily.

[Hugo Boss]

Gamisaras was stronger than/same level as 18, he broke her defense by pure force and overwhelmed her without issues. Piccolo consider him to be nothing and beat him easily.

But Piccolo had an advantage No.18 didn't, which was seeing Gamisaras. I wouldn't call that strong evidence on his favor.

[TheDipDap1234]

Piccolo's in the same place he's been for decades now, above Base but fodder to any SS in the manga.

IIRC, the last significant power up that Piccolo got was when he absorbed Kami which made him stronger than A17 and A18 who were in fact stronger than SSJ1 Goku, Trunks and Vegeta. For about 5 minutes, Piccolo was the strongest Z-Warrior until Vegeta emerged out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with his improved SSJ1.

Of course, the power level of Goku and Vegeta's SSJ1 form in the TOP is WAY above their SSJ1 forms in the Cell Saga. Still, I like to think that TOP Piccolo and TOP A18 are at least TOP SSJ1 level because otherwise they are basically trash and the gap between them and the next two fighters in terms of power levels (Ultimate Gohan and A17) would be insanely big.

The question is: in the TOP, who is stronger? Piccolo or A18?

I am confused at this to be honest. Obviously Piccolo is much stronger than 18 that much has been made abundantly clear. 18 has been fighting with difficulty against opponents that Krillin had been struggling with. Meanwhile Piccolo has been competing with Frost and the bigger hitters of Universe 6 like the Namekians. Goku and Vegeta's SSJ1 forms are astronomically more powerful than in the Cell saga and I don't believe Piccolo has closed the gap. I think at the very best he is on par with their base forms which still might be a stretch. However, Vegeta and Goku's base is stronger than Buuhan at this point so Piccolo being around that level is extremely respectable.

as far as comparing Piccolo to Ultimate Gohan and Android 17 Piccolo is complete trash but that is ok. He still is a contributing member on the team and is fairly powerful as far as the grand scheme of the tournament goes.

You mean a suppressed 18. The 18 who defeated Giant Ribrianne was much stronger than the one who fought with Krillin against those wolves. 18 was seen powering up for the first time ever when she eliminated Ribrianne, so it's obvious that she became stronger in that moment.

[ZombieVito]

But Piccolo had an advantage No.18 didn't, which was seeing Gamisaras. I wouldn't call that strong evidence on his favor.

Gamisaras attacked 18 on a straight line and managed to break her defenses and almost got her eliminated.

He's on her level and Piccolo trashed him easily.

[Amir]

Given how absurdly powerful Kefla was as a SSJ2 - easily rivaling UI Omen in power, Vegito SSJ2 should be even stronger, and SSJB Vegito should be infinitely stronger, easily surpassing UI Omen Goku and Full Power Jiren by a large margin. I don't know how much of an increase MUI Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren got, so I have no idea if Vegito as Blue would be weaker or stronger than them.

[Koitsukai]

Given how absurdly powerful Kefla was as a SSJ2 - easily rivaling UI Omen in power, Vegito SSJ2 should be even stronger, and SSJB Vegito should be infinitely stronger, easily surpassing UI Omen Goku and Full Power Jiren by a large margin. I don't know how much of an increase MUI Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren got, so I have no idea if Vegito as Blue would be weaker or stronger than them.

But Kefla never rivalled UI Omen in anything, she just lasted so long(half a minute? 40 seconds in db time?) because Goku was sort of aware while attacking, but she never ever got close to even landing a punch, she didn't even hurt him when he was dodging and got touched in the arm by one of her beams, he hardly flinched. Goku's kamehameha even destroyed the earrings or something of that sort!

And that is considering that UI Omen's second coming wasn't as spot on as the one in 110 was (when he was slowly growing stronger and overwhelming Jiren) and hurried things up before the power wore off due to having less stamina than the first time UI happened, that time he was fueled by the Genki Dama, against Kefla he had spent almost all of what Freeza gave him.

Against Kefla, Goku's rival was himself and his impossibility to let go while attacking. Against Jiren, every single time his rival was Jiren, only that guy rivalled UI Omen and I wouldn't even say he did that easily.

Also Kefla is part Kale who has that weird green legendary ki that apparently justifies the massive power up, she seemed more like a LSSJ2 Kefla, not a regular SS2. She was said to be strong like the Genki Dama, which is not even close to UI Omen.

[Lord Beerus]

Dragon Ball Super Episode 131 (The Last One Forever and Ever (For Real This Time) (We Fucking Mean It)

- Jiren swats #17 away like a fly
- Jiren and Golden Freeza duke it out and it seems even at first
- Jiren then steps on Golden Freeza's tail and begins to batter Golden Freeza.
- Freeza says Jiren's physical and mental strength is crumbling.
- Jiren is on his knees from his attack being countered by #17 energy shield
- Freeza is about to take him out but some vocal motivation from Toopo on the sides gives him his second wind.
- Goku and Freeza team up and fight Jiren, with #17 providing distant support
- SSJ Goku and Freeza team-up and eliminate Jiren and themselves in the process by charging straight at Jiren.
- Goku, Freeza and Jiren are eliminated.
- ANDROID 17 HAS WON THE TOURNAMENT OF POWER FOR UNIVERSE 7

[majinwarman]

Dragon Ball Super Episode 131 (The Last One Forever and Ever (For Real This Time) (We Fucking Mean It)

- Jiren swats #17 away like a fly
- Jiren and Golden Freeza duke it out and it seems even at first
- Jiren then steps on Golden Freeza's tail and begins to batter Golden Freeza.
- Freeza says Jiren's physical and mental strength is crumbling.
- Jiren is on his knees from his attack being countered by #17 energy shield
- Freeza is about to take him out but some vocal motivation from Toopo on the sides gives him his second wind.
- Goku and Freeza team up and fight Jiren, with #17 providing distant support
- SSJ Goku and Freeza team-up and eliminate Jiren and themselves in the process by charging straight at Jiren.
- Goku, Freeza and Jiren are eliminated.
- ANDROID 17 HAS WON THE TOURNAMENT OF POWER FOR UNIVERSE 7

Don't forget that all the universes get wished back and Freeza gets brought back to life by Whis! When did Whis even had that power to begin with anyway?

[Kenneth La Torre]

And to anyone that wad affraid that the next villians would be even above jiren, teres a chance they might not be. UI was inplied in this episode to be a form goku cant obtain willingly, and he needs to be in basically the same situation as he was with jiren. And it seems jiren will still be relavent, and we can possibly expect a jiren vs goku rematch

[TheDipDap1234]

Those poachers actually gave Goten and Trunks a pretty rough time lol. Both of them were very battle damaged. Marron on the other hand didn't have a single scratch on her face.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Its inevitable that jiren and goku will rematch now that i watched the episode. I just wonder how mich more powerful jiren will get in the future. Lol it would be funny if jiren masters UI in order to fight goku. Now that would be OP.

[MajinVegetaPD]

And to anyone that wad affraid that the next villians would be even above jiren, teres a chance they might not be. UI was inplied in this episode to be a form goku cant obtain willingly, and he needs to be in basically the same situation as he was with jiren. And it seems jiren will still be relavent, and we can possibly expect a jiren vs goku rematch

I actually like that they did that. It still makes the GoD's relevant power wise, and leaves room for strong enemies down the line.

[Bullza]

Golden Frieza was pretty much confirmed to be above Android 17. I think most would say that anyway but it was made even more clear here.

Jiren was severely weakened to the point Golden Frieza could match him. What was then very odd is how Jiren's power increased but then Base Goku and Final Form Frieza beat him.

The episode didn't tell me how Final Form Frieza compares. Is he on the level of Base Goku or Super Saiyan Goku?

Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta are equal still. Worth pointing out because about ten episodes ago there was discussion on whether or not Vegeta had surpassed him especially during the Final Flash scene but no.

Goku's lost Ultra Instinct. Seems like it could be a bit of Coolers Revenge/Bojack Unbound scenario for the movie now and that he will get the form back during the fight and win that at.

****

And that's it. That's the end of the series. There won't be much discussion here I'd imagine going forward. There's the manga monthly and the movie at the end of the year that's it.

I would like to see people do a final ranking or tier lost now the series is over.