dbzfan7 wrote:Ah so Whis has yet another power than breaks all tension, lovely.
He can rewind time, heal and revive you. Just in case you fuck up multiple times
Yep. Can't wait til what other crap they are gonna pull.
Dragono wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Dragono wrote:
Ok. thats just dumb, man.
The dragon balls do the exact same thing and have no limits and there are three of them.
Don't give me that.
Slapping on even more tension devoiding abilities is never a good thing. It just covers every possible fuck up. It's not as bad as time rewind, but it really has no reason to exist other than to tie things up quicker.
The dragon balls already covered every fuck up. The Earth was the destroyed in the Buu saga and only Goku and Vegeta were alive. If they were going to lose it would have been then.
Time rewind, only whis can do that but you can't in good honesty get mad at someone bringing someone back to life in this series when we have two dragons balls and kais that can transfer life energy already to bring someone back.
I draw the line there. If you are going to get mad, you have to get mad at all of dragon ball for that. Thats not super's faullt
I DO. I've hated it since Dragon Ball Z basically screwed things up. Super just adds to what DBZ did wrong.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
JacobYBM wrote:The comic can stay behind the animated series because the animated series keeps dragging the story out, likely because they're both waiting for Toriyama to come up with the plot for another story arc. I imagine the comic will speed up once the animated series ends its adaption of Toriyama's notes and can move on to another Toriyama-outlined arc.
That doesn't make sense since the Toriyama finished writing the Future Trunks Saga back in February. Why would they need to drag when Toriyama had months to write a follow up and the anime was still in the Champa Saga during that time.
And it weird to hear about padding in the anime when Chapter 16 had the padding of Future Majin Buu that could have been skipped.
This is the same guy who would do an entire week's worth of work in a single night just to be able to procrastinate for a week and do nothing but watch movies or build models. Logic does not apply to Toriyama Akira. He has evolved past it.
Kanassa wrote:
UltimateGohan wrote:
Kanassa wrote:
They can call him in when the time comes. I can see it now...
Gohan: You're a super hero too? THIS LOOKS LIKE A JOB FOR THE GREAT SAIYAMAN! *Dresses up*
Beerus: That's just st-
Zeno: Wow, so cool!
Beerus: Genius! Go out and do justice, Great Saiyaman!
*Immediately jobs*
Jobbing, FOR THE SAKE OF JUSTICE! I'd accept a heartfelt moment of the two exchanging stories about being Super Heroes.
dbzfan7 wrote:Ah so Whis has yet another power than breaks all tension, lovely.
He can rewind time, heal and revive you. Just in case you fuck up multiple times
Yep. Can't wait til what other crap they are gonna pull.
Dragono wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Slapping on even more tension devoiding abilities is never a good thing. It just covers every possible fuck up. It's not as bad as time rewind, but it really has no reason to exist other than to tie things up quicker.
The dragon balls already covered every fuck up. The Earth was the destroyed in the Buu saga and only Goku and Vegeta were alive. If they were going to lose it would have been then.
Time rewind, only whis can do that but you can't in good honesty get mad at someone bringing someone back to life in this series when we have two dragons balls and kais that can transfer life energy already to bring someone back.
I draw the line there. If you are going to get mad, you have to get mad at all of dragon ball for that. Thats not super's faullt
I DO. I've hated it since Dragon Ball Z basically screwed things up. Super just adds to what DBZ did wrong.
Then why do you say z had tension if it does the exact same thing?
Well I'm glad that the next villains font have to be stronger than jiren. This episode pretty mich stated that UI isnt a form that goku can attain willingly, he has to get pushed back into a corner. So in guessing ssb level opponents are still relavent.
dbzfan7 wrote:Ah so Whis has yet another power than breaks all tension, lovely.
He can rewind time, heal and revive you. Just in case you fuck up multiple times
Yep. Can't wait til what other crap they are gonna pull.
Dragono wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Slapping on even more tension devoiding abilities is never a good thing. It just covers every possible fuck up. It's not as bad as time rewind, but it really has no reason to exist other than to tie things up quicker.
The dragon balls already covered every fuck up. The Earth was the destroyed in the Buu saga and only Goku and Vegeta were alive. If they were going to lose it would have been then.
Time rewind, only whis can do that but you can't in good honesty get mad at someone bringing someone back to life in this series when we have two dragons balls and kais that can transfer life energy already to bring someone back.
I draw the line there. If you are going to get mad, you have to get mad at all of dragon ball for that. Thats not super's faullt
I DO. I've hated it since Dragon Ball Z basically screwed things up. Super just adds to what DBZ did wrong.
Doctor. wrote:
He can rewind time, heal and revive you. Just in case you fuck up multiple times
Yep. Can't wait til what other crap they are gonna pull.
Dragono wrote:
The dragon balls already covered every fuck up. The Earth was the destroyed in the Buu saga and only Goku and Vegeta were alive. If they were going to lose it would have been then.
Time rewind, only whis can do that but you can't in good honesty get mad at someone bringing someone back to life in this series when we have two dragons balls and kais that can transfer life energy already to bring someone back.
I draw the line there. If you are going to get mad, you have to get mad at all of dragon ball for that. Thats not super's faullt
I DO. I've hated it since Dragon Ball Z basically screwed things up. Super just adds to what DBZ did wrong.
Then why do you say z had tension if it does the exact same thing?
I don't believe I said that upon my first post. Though maybe at some point.
Z did have tension, Once....before they fucked it up in the Boo saga royally. Super basically just adds even less tension to a show a series in desperate need of actual stakes. Like kicking the dog while it was down already. And the final episode even further notes this with the Grand Priests comments.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
As I mentioned in the animation thread, the only thing I found to nitpick at was the fact that the other universes don't know who revived them (except u6). It would of been nice if they returned to the world of Void and saw that it was 17 Of U7 who brought them back.
As for the ending episode itself, it was a very beautiful episode. Fantastic work from Ishitani, Yamamuro and Takahashi. That little scene with Frieza and his force tells me he definitely is going to play a role in the movie.
[spoiler]Is it just me, or did Vegeta conveniently forget SSJ Blue Evolution? Gokū seemingly can't access Ultra Instinct Omen or Ultra Instinct at will just yet, so the maximum he has on-hand in the anime is SSJ Blue Kaiōken x20, yet Vegeta complains that Kakarrot has surpassed him. I understand that he could simply have been referring to Ultra Instinct, but, if I'm not mistaken, in terms of what each of them can assess at will, Vegeta is ahead of Gokū.[/spoiler]
"Reign supreme? In your dreams; you'll never make me bow.
Kick my ass? I'm world-class and Super Saiyan now."
I BURN - Jeff Williams feat. Casey Lee Williams, RWBY Volume 1 Soundtrack
All I Want to Say............All I Need to Say..............& And All That SHOULD be Said from ME About Episode 131 is;
[spoiler]THANK YOU ANDROID #17!!!!
I am Beyond Happy Right NOW!!!!
[/spoiler]
Last edited by CJStriker_CBR on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
--- ADMIN NOTE: THIS SIGNATURE IS FAR TOO LONG. PLEASE REDUCE IN SIZE. --- “Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!” Brianne De Chateau/Ribrianne! My #1 in DB!
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Yep. Can't wait til what other crap they are gonna pull.
I DO. I've hated it since Dragon Ball Z basically screwed things up. Super just adds to what DBZ did wrong.
Then why do you say z had tension if it does the exact same thing?
I don't believe I said that upon my first post. Though maybe at some point.
Z did have tension, Once....before they fucked it up in the Boo saga royally. Super basically just adds even less tension to a show a series in desperate need of actual stakes. Like kicking the dog while it was down already. And the final episode even further notes this with the Grand Priests comments.
Ok, but its not like there isn't a way to work around it, I mean the black arc, whis didn't rewind time and I doubt he will bring anyone back.
GamerSkull wrote:It would be hilarious if Goku's wish to the Super Dragon Balls would be something that is pretty trivial... but then again, 17 wants to take his family on a cruise.
That's trivial too, he can wish that with the Earth's DB lol
Yeah, I know.
Well, even without that... I'm sure Bulma can afford to give him tickets for a cruise so he might not even need Earth's dragon balls.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Dragono wrote:
Then why do you say z had tension if it does the exact same thing?
I don't believe I said that upon my first post. Though maybe at some point.
Z did have tension, Once....before they fucked it up in the Boo saga royally. Super basically just adds even less tension to a show a series in desperate need of actual stakes. Like kicking the dog while it was down already. And the final episode even further notes this with the Grand Priests comments.
Ok, but its not like there isn't a way to work around it, I mean the black arc, whis didn't rewind time and I doubt he will bring anyone back.
Toriyama doesn't really reuse plot devices.
Which was one of the only good things the arc had going towards it after tripping at the finish line....except for ending it in a basically similar way anyways.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
[/spoiler]
