The Shadow Dragons Saga Review

[successoroffate]

After Super ended I decided to revisit DBGT, specifically the Shadow Dragons Saga. I watched it in Japanese (Mono). Here are some details that I discovered through this run:

- Lot's of puns and comedy bits. "PAN DANGER, IF PAN'S NOT AROUND SAFETY GOES UP 70%" which had me laughing like an idiot.
-When fighting Liang Xing Long, Pan and Goku were thrown into the polluted water. Once under water, Pan and Goku were able to communicate using Telepathy. Goku apparently understood Pan saying " Throw a blast in the hole" without actually talking. However, Goku then says something like: "I don't know what you were saying but I just kinda guessed it."
- I believe Si Xing Long wasn't a full bad guy because of what the 4 star DB represented to Goku: The attachment between Grandpa Gohan and him./b]
-The morbid scene: When Goku is fighting Omega, there is a scene that I forgot and it felt really dark, which is this one: Pan's scream felt like it came straight from a horror movie and I was watching it late at night and it scared the crap out of me. https://twitter.com/SuccessorOfFate/sta ... 0067120128
-Omega before dropping Goku to get impaled by a sword from a high distance says " Good Bye" in plain English which I thought was a cool touch.
-Bulma explains why Bebi didn't turn into SS4: Bebi's own cells prevented the Golden Oozaru from turning SS4. Those were news to me and I always wondered that.
-Super Saiyan 5 it's mentioned twice.
-Omega Called himself a "God of Destruction." Again, even if I have seen GT a bunch of times, I never really got it the first time. Which I think it's kinda cool because this is the second time in GT that the name "God of Destruction" has come into play. The other time was with Lood.

-Subtle hint at Goku dying: Goku riding Shen long's back and saying: Shen Long's back sure is warm implying that Goku's temperature was really low (cold because he was dead).
-Vegeta, Piccolo and Roshi are the only three to realize that Goku was dead and was saying Good bye.

Side notes:
I really regret not getting the full GT experience as we were supposed to had GT run longer as planned (taking as a fact that the show was supposed to be allegedly long).
I tried several times to give the English Dub a try mostly because it had the original Japanese BGM in 5.1 sound. I couldn't take more than 30 seconds. Not because of the cheesiness but rather how they butchered the original dialogue. Goku coming back with the Genkidama and saying something in the English Dub like " I tried to be reasonable" or "I Tried to reason with you" which is just not true. And the big one of course, The Goku dying part of the plot does not exist in the English Dub. Muten Roshi doesn't even wonders if Goku's alive or not, he just says "These boys never change" when Goku and Kuririn are fighting.

I think I covered all that I wanted to share. If more comes up I'll update this one.
Thoughts.?

[sunsetshimmer]

Thoughts.?

My thoughts:

Nuova Shenron was still evil (at least at the beginning) but he was the least evil and the only dragon with honour.
Him being related to 4-star balls is a clear reference that worked well later when Goku said that he won't let this ball be eaten by Omega which caused Nuova to return.

I don't remember SSJ5 being mentioned at all. Only in english dub. In original version Bulma only said that Vegeta might even surpass SSJ4, but it doesn't have to be SSJ5. It can be Ascended SSJ4 or just beyond-limit SSJ4 what Goku did when he got energy from his friends.

Omega called himself a god of destruction, but even later Pan said that Goku is "like a god" (actually used "kami" word) when he was holding the spirit bomb. That's also cool.

"I tried to be reasonable" makes sense in english dub. Goku before said that if Omega want good things happen to him he has to be good. Also, Gogeta said that if Omega stop killing he will let him live. Also, Goku when defending Earth from negative karma ball said "Last chance to give up before i attack".
So yeah, it makes sense, but as i said, only in english aka fake version.
English dub in GT was overall awful when it comes to dialogues. Many important things were missed and many plot holes were added. It's basically different show.

[sangofe]

Thoughts.?

My thoughts:

I don't remember SSJ5 being mentioned at all. Only in english dub. In original version Bulma only said that Vegeta might even surpass SSJ4, but it doesn't have to be SSJ5.

I think it's actually mentioned.

[successoroffate]

Thoughts.?

I don't remember SSJ5 being mentioned at all. Only in english dub. In original version Bulma only said that Vegeta might even surpass SSJ4, but it doesn't have to be SSJ5. It can be Ascended SSJ4 or just beyond-limit SSJ4 what Goku did when he got energy from his friends.

You're right about that part about surpassing SS4, I would count that one as one mention, and right after that scene, Vegeta goes: "Kakaroto, bring on your Super Saiyan 4 or 5, or whatever you want!" (this is from the Original Japanese)

[sunsetshimmer]

Yeah you're both right. I totally forgot about that.

[successoroffate]

Yeah you're both right. I totally forgot about that.

There is one more instance, I can't remember if it's Vegeta who says it while mocking Goku or something. I may try to find it later.

[successoroffate]

Also, there's one more cool stuff that I discovered which is like breaking the 4th wall. The Supreme Old Kai is shown listening to music. He is listening to Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku's Instrumental version!

[Robo4900]

I've said it once, I'll say it again; the Funimation English dub of GT is absolutely awful, if you absolutely must watch a dub, go with Blue Water. Voices take some getting used to if you're more used to Funimation or Ocean, but it's a perfectly decent dub, and it was originally produced and aired with the Japanese soundtrack, in its proper stereo form.
(Yes, I'm aware Funi's later DVDs added the Japanese soundtrack. But, they did a slightly iffy 5.1 mix with it, and starting from about episode 40, the sound quality of the music takes a nosedive. Plus, just like with Z, the dub can often jar with the Japanese score)

The show, as it is in Japanese and in Blue Water's dub, still isn't as good as DB or Z, but that's a pretty high bar. Judged on its own merits, it has a pretty good run, particularly in the Shadow Dragons arc, which -- despite getting off to a somewhat slow start, as the first two dragons are a little dull -- I consider to be the highlight of GT, and an arc absolutely worthy of standing next to all the main DB and Z arcs.

I do hope Funimation put out a release of GT using the proper, stereo audio sometime; the stereo isn't a big deal, but the vastly higher quality of the original GT audio master is a massive boon, as it really gives the soundtrack the oomph it deserves.

And now, I'm going to present some of my ramblings about this arc.

First off, some great villains in the arc. Some of them better than others, though I think only the first two who appear in the show are less than good. A good few of the ones often criticised online, I think are rather unjustly given that reputation.
Yi Xing Long(AKA: Ī Shinron, AKA: Ii Shenron, AKA: Syn Shenron, AKA: Omega Shenron) is a villain many people consider to be somewhat bland. Admittedly, no real character is developed in him, but like Super Boo before him, he's a force of nature who appears at a time when the main characters are already in a tight spot, and basically functions as a big bad who's big and bad enough to be one last villain to reunite the cast to fight off. So, I think he works, since he serves his purpose very well, his design is cool, and he's rather delightfully evil. And in Dragon Ball, delightfully evil is
Si Xing Long(AKA: Sū Shinron, AKA: Su Shenron, AKA: Nuova Shenron) and his brother San Xing Long(AKA: San Shinron, AKA: San Shenron, AKA: Eis Shenron) were basically excellent, Liu Xing Long(AKA: Ryū Shinron, Ryu Shenron, or Oceanus Shenron) was interesting and rather fun, Qi Xing Long(AKA: Chī Shinron, Chi Shenron, or Naturon Shenron) is one I feel was rushed; if given more time, I feel he could have been an all-time classic villain, though I think as-is he worked fine, it's just a lot of people's distaste for Pan renders him rather overlooked, but I think he was good.
That just leaves Liang Xing Long(Ryan Shinron, Ryan Shenron, Haze Shenron), who is pretty uninteresting, though I think his episode was okay, and Wu Xing Long(Ū Shinron, Oo Shenron, Rage Shenron), who I think was just a little dull overall, though not especially bad.

This arc suffers from a few problems, but I think most of that stems from time constraints. The Super #17 arc was the biggest problem stemming from the reduced length of the show; when the show was renewed after the initial 40, they were given only 24 episodes, and given the finality in which the Evil Dragons arc is presented, I think they knew it was the end. The setup of the Super #17 arc seems like it could work at first, but it basically ends up being a mess that just exists to get everything into a position where the Evil Dragons arc could take place. I must admit, I do enjoy that 7-episode mess, as it was a brand of up-its-own-arse fanservice that I quite enjoy, but it wasn't very good, really.
The Evil Dragons arc itself could have done with some more time to stew; the first two dragons are the weakest of the lot, third dragon is pretty good, fourth is really good, fifth and sixth are the best, then the seventh is great.
Given some more time, I think the first two dragons could have been workshopped more heavily, and some important character development could have been exercised better; Vegeta attaining Super Saiyan 4 wouldn't have needed an entire episode-long diversion from the main plot to set it up, Goku and Vegeta's mutual respect in their older age that showed a few times in the Baby arc could have been built on to make Vegeta's suggestion of the fusion feel more built up to(I think it was somewhat set up by some stuff in the Baby arc, but there could/should have been more, they just didn't really have the time for it).
But, we got what we got. And I think what we got was pretty good. It got better as it went on, with the final two episodes being the best, and the ultimate finalé being one of the best episodes in the entire 508-episode original run, in my opinion. So, I think the Evil Dragons arc was pretty great.