Why aren't the Hunt for Dragonballs and Red Ribbon Army Arc not as well received?

[FoolsGil]

Just curious to what people think. Out of the three arcs in the entire series that focused on Dragonballs first and fighting second, the Namek Arc is obviously the favorite, and for some people, rank up higher than most other arcs that are mainly fighting. So, why aren't the Hunt for Dragonballs and Red Ribbon Army Arc not as well received?

[One_Instance]

Not completely sure, given that RRA is my favorite arc, but I've heard people complain about it dragging particularly around the Muscle Tower stuff and General Blue (recently rewatched Muscle Tower and I can kinda see what they mean during the Murasaki stuff).

[Pirina_Fusee]

I didn't dislike them but I feel like a lot of their humor has aged terribly. Particularly the Oolong-drugs-Bulma scene and General Blue the Creepy Evil Gay Guy.

[Banana]

I think the most frustrating part in the hunt for the dragon balls is that it was a waste of resources. Granted I know the whole point was Oolong was trying to be quick and pilaf did not deserve world domination, but giving that up for a pair of panties? So much cooler stuff could have been wished for even in haste. Even though the purpose was saving the world, it was such a wasted wish on such a useless item. That's frustrating.

Red ribbon just dragged on, 'nuff said.

[MasenkoHA]

Huh of those the Namek arc is by far my least favorite although the Red Ribbon army does suffer from some arc fatigue.

[Vijay]

RRA was peak of DB. Might as well check its ratings. Quite high for its time, at least on par to Frieza/Android Arc ratings

I get ur view of Hunt for DB Arc. Its basically "exposition" that might tire some fans. Also addin less interesting character like Pilaf, Gyuumao, Bulma felt contrived & draggy.

All said & done, I felt 1st Arc (Hunt for DB) to be a prelude into the fabulous 21st TB Arc, which earns itself few credit

Followin it up with splendid RRA Arc (barring Muscle Tower sequence) was genius on Toriyama's part

[sintzu]

I think the RRA arc's pacing in the anime may have something to do with it as it takes a bit long to get moving.

[MasenkoHA]

Red ribbon just dragged on, 'nuff said.

Are they still on Namek?!?

I. Also addin less interesting character like Pilaf, Gyuumao, Bulma felt contrived & draggy.

How?

[Pirina_Fusee]

I think the most frustrating part in the hunt for the dragon balls is that it was a waste of resources. Granted I know the whole point was Oolong was trying to be quick and pilaf did not deserve world domination, but giving that up for a pair of panties? So much cooler stuff could have been wished for even in haste. Even though the purpose was saving the world, it was such a wasted wish on such a useless item. That's frustrating.

Keep in mind that at the time Toriyama had no idea the series would even continue past that arc, let alone become a mass-media juggernaut.

[Banana]

I think the most frustrating part in the hunt for the dragon balls is that it was a waste of resources. Granted I know the whole point was Oolong was trying to be quick and pilaf did not deserve world domination, but giving that up for a pair of panties? So much cooler stuff could have been wished for even in haste. Even though the purpose was saving the world, it was such a wasted wish on such a useless item. That's frustrating.

Keep in mind that at the time Toriyama had no idea the series would even continue past that arc, let alone become a mass-media juggernaut.

True, but doesn't change the fact that the first set of dragon balls deserved better, but then so did all the dragon balls. Who are we gonna bring back to life this time? Lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

DER AINT NO SAYUNS! DUH!

...Cipher makes posting funny stuff look easy.

[Vijay]

Red ribbon just dragged on, 'nuff said.

Are they still on Namek?!?

I. Also addin less interesting character like Pilaf, Gyuumao, Bulma felt contrived & draggy.

How?

Fire Mountain uninteresting scene, Gyuumaou's flat characterization plus Bulma's obnoxious/pervert scene with Roshi & Oolong's deal makes those portions bit dull

[KBABZ]

The opening arc I agree has a lot of "we're figuring this out" (not to mention is a dense minefield of sexual humour that just doesn't fly in 2018), but at the same time it does has one aspect that makes it unique among all other arcs, which is that every episode focuses on something new and self-contained. Good examples of this include the very first episode, meeting Master Roshi, the Oolong village and the Rabbit Gang village. No other arc in the series has this and it can be refreshing to have it over long stories that blend through all of the various episodes.

The Red Ribbon Arc for me is my all-time favourite of the entire franchise because it's where it exemplifies what I like about it most: Goku travelling the world and meeting new people as he learns the world around him, and with the death of Bora he even gets some major character development. Every ten or so episodes features a new location and it's just classic Kid Goku action. That being said, in the anime the pace can be unbearable, with Muscle Tower and the Pirate Cave doing everything they can to make one Chapter stretch out to one Episode, to say nothing of the Colonel Silver and Dreamland filler arcs. That being said, those only apply to the anime; in the manga it's got fantastic pacing.

I consider the Fortuneteller Baba arc to be part of the Red Ribbon Arc because it completes the storyline (similar to how the Frieza Arc completes the story begun in the Namek Arc). I loathe this arc because even though it's part of the manga, it feels like stalling the final Dragon Ball by shoving a Tournament at the very end to pad it out, which again gets particularly bad in the anime thanks to stretching the story out. However meeting Grandpa Gohan and especially the Blue Travelers ending give this Arc something to look forward to and remember.

[KBABZ]

(apologies for the double post, I can't edit my previous one anymore)

I also don't think it's a co-incidence that the RRA Arc is the source of no less than nine songs that are associated with it and the story: Hunt for Mr. Dream, Mystery Wonderland, The Teachings of Master Roshi, Tell Me Your Dreams, Red Ribbon Army, Riding on a Cloud is My First Love, The Dragon Ball Legend, The Son Goku Song, and The Blue Travelers. Heck half of them were included as insert songs too!

[OhHiRenan]

For the first arc, I figure it’s because Toriyama is still finding his footing with the series. The jokes don’t always land, the fights aren’t anything writing home about, and the character work pales in comparison to the rest of the series.

The Red Ribbon Army feels like a massive step back for the series. Toriyama struck a great balance of action, comedy, and martial arts philosophy with the 21st Budokai only to fall back into old habits with the next arc. The RRA feels like a regression in every regard, and it drags like crazy in the first half. Someone made a comment up above in reference to Namek, but at least characters developed on Namek and there were constant stakes. The Red Ribbon Army arc is only tense when’s TaoPaiPai is around and nobody gets a chance to grow because Goku’s effectively the only active character. It’s definitely an original series lowpoint.

[ABED]

the character work pales in comparison to the rest of the series.

Meaning what exactly? The characters are all well defined without being caricatures.

It seems most of people's problems with the first arc is that it's different from what they think of as DB. The Red Ribbon Army arc is often boring with a bland main antagonist. It has some high points but is among my least favorites.

So much cooler stuff could have been wished for even in haste. Even though the purpose was saving the world, it was such a wasted wish on such a useless item. That's frustrating.

That's the point. It's tonally consistent with the first arc, it makes sense coming from Oolong, and it subverts expectations. Why is that frustrating?

[Robo4900]

I don't think the Pilaf and Red Ribbon arcs are necessarily poorly-received, so much as most English-speaking fans were introduced via Funimation's hardcore, edgy, action-packed DRAGON. BALL. ZEEEEEEEE!! So, the show being more goofy and light just comes off as wrong, so they're dismissed, and the "dragon ball was just the comedy bit before they figured out what they were doing" reputation cements it as simply an inferior product.

However, both are definitely very flawed products; while both are a delight to watch through, the Pilaf arc has some highly uncomfortable moments(I still maintain that the scene with Goku walking in on Bulma in the bath is funny, and actually has some cool character-establishing stuff, but Oolong drugging Bulma and Goku, and obviously having some bad intent there goes too far, and Chichi's outfit is pretty uncomfortable to see too), and the Red Ribbon arc is a bit too long and ends up slowing down too far in a few places.

The Pilaf arc is a solid first 13-episode run, and the Red Ribbon arc is pretty much the zenith of the "Adventure era" of Dragon Ball. They're good arcs, even great arcs. It's just that many, myself included, consider the series to have reached higher highs in other places, and due to the prevelant overlooking of OG Dragon Ball in the English-speaking fandom, these two arcs just end up being highly underappreciated. Especially with how those couple of pieces of the Pilaf arc have ended up being highly uncomfortable in modern culture. If it wasn't for that, I think the Pilaf arc would be a lot more appreciated, because especially as a first arc, it's a pretty damn amazing run of 13 episodes; the story is really well-told, the characters are generally strong, it's funny, it looks beautiful, it's scored masterfully, the villains are an absolute riot, etc.

Though, IMO, the real travesty is how underappreciated the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs are. That's my top two favourite arcs in the franchise right there, but good luck finding more than a handful of people who'd even put one them in their top 5, if they even bother to rank the pre-Z arcs.

Oh well. Their loss, I guess.

[CWCprime]

Though, IMO, the real travesty is how underappreciated the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs are. That's my top two favourite arcs in the franchise right there, but good luck finding more than a handful of people who'd even put one them in their top 5, if they even bother to rank the pre-Z arcs.

The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc is probably my favorite arc in all of Dragon Ball, if not then definitely in my top 3. Red Ribbon Army ranks up there for me too. The only part I felt it started to drag just a little was the pirate cave sequence and the Dr. Slump crossover, but even those parts don't hold a candle to the amount of dragging that occurs in the Dragon Ball Z anime. The Hunt for the Dragon Balls I have almost no problems with as an arc. It's just perhaps not as memorable as the others, is all.

I think a possible reason the arcs may not get much appreciation is because they (Hunt for Dragon Balls and the Tenkaichi Budokai arcs especially) are low stakes compared to other arcs, especially Z-era arcs. That's probably also the reason some people disliked the Universe 6 arc. Honestly, I wish Dragon Ball would do more low stakes stuff, because that's where I feel the characters and the fun can shine most.

[Jackalope89]

I didn't dislike them but I feel like a lot of their humor has aged terribly. Particularly the Oolong-drugs-Bulma scene and General Blue the Creepy Evil Gay Nazi.

Fixed.
Come on, we were all thinking it.

[KBABZ]

However, both are definitely very flawed products; while both are a delight to watch through, the Pilaf arc has some highly uncomfortable moments(I still maintain that the scene with Goku walking in on Bulma in the bath is funny, and actually has some cool character-establishing stuff, but Oolong drugging Bulma and Goku, and obviously having some bad intent there goes too far, and Chichi's outfit is pretty uncomfortable to see too), and the Red Ribbon arc is a bit too long and ends up slowing down too far in a few places.

All agreed. Why has nobody ever talked about how Chi-Chi being in a metal thong for a 10 year old not the most sickening, pedophilic design design ever??? (the cape's pretty cool though)

On the 21st Tournament, I like it a fair bit, because similar to the Pilaf Arc, it stands out even among the other Dragon Ball arcs. How it differs from 22 and 23 is that the emphasis is much more on "what move are they gonna use next??", and each fighter has a clearer gimmick about them, be it Bacterian's vulgarness, Ranfan's exploitation of her own sexuality, and the monstrousness of Giran. The 22nd still has that a bit with Man-Wolf, but it otherwise takes things more seriously, particularly now that Goku is taking this whole fighting thing super-seriously (compare Goku's "What move are we gonna try next? ^_^" approach to his level-headed assertion of the Jackie/Tien fight).

Of course, it's a saga of two halves as well. What the 21st has that the 22nd and 23rd do not is the training with Roshi, and this is some top-tier stuff from Dragon Ball. I ADORE the low-key, down to earth approach for these episodes and they do a surprising amount of world-building as the characters spend time in the traditional China aspect of the world. To say nothing about the training itself. It's also where we see Goku adopt his famous outfit for the first time, and it's here we learn why it's so important, and why it's significant that he sticks with it even through the latest Super episodes.

And, the lessons learned in this arc reverberate and apply to the entire rest of the series. Goku's love of fighting, focus on training and never stopping were taught to him here by Roshi and Jackie. And as much as Toriyama never plans ahead, Frieza's ultimate defeat (and the exploration of that in RoF) can be traced back to here. When Frieza is defeated, Goku specifically calls out that Frieza never imagined that there'd be someone more powerful than him (and RoF reveals he never trained a day in his life), and that gets his ass handed to him. Guess where Goku learned that? In the very second arc of the series.