Things that grind your gears

[Bruma rabu]

Man, you remind me of my teachers, never satisfied even when there's clear improvement. Besides, nobody said that this was Gohan's definitive power and that he wasn't gonna grow any stronger. Hell, what did you expect? He just regained his powers a couple a couple of days/hours ago. He wasn't gonna become Blue level in that short amount of time.

Why not? Kale did it in like what 2 days maybe less. Then we have their fusion that's well above blue.

One thing that has bothered the crap out of me is the way saiyan/human hybrids act. They act way too "human" and almost nothing like saiyans. You'd think the saiyan part would over power their human instincts but it doesn't. They're like the most passive characters in the series. Characters like Tien and Piccolo act more like saiyans than actual saiyan hybrids. I'm not saying the should act like Goku and Vegeta but come on they completely lose interest in fighting when it's in their blood to fight. Gohan in particular is the biggest offender of being like this.

[Zephyr]

People replying to discussions of quality with "well a lot of people love it!"

Not only is that anecdotal evidence that can be used in the opposite direction as well, it has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Popularity is irrelevant, even if it could be concretely confirmed. Low quality things can be beloved, and high quality things can be panned. And, yet, it's unfortunately a very common style of response, as if it's supposed to actually contribute to the conversation or act as a counterargument to criticism.

[Doctor.]

People replying to discussions of quality with "well a lot of people love it!"

Not only is that anecdotal evidence that can be used in the opposite direction as well, it has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Popularity is irrelevant, even if it could be concretely confirmed. Low quality things can be beloved, and high quality things can be panned. And, yet, it's unfortunately a very common style of response, as if it's supposed to actually contribute to the conversation or act as a counterargument to criticism.

A lot of people disagree with you.

[Kamiccolo9]

People replying to discussions of quality with "well a lot of people love it!"

Not only is that anecdotal evidence that can be used in the opposite direction as well, it has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Popularity is irrelevant, even if it could be concretely confirmed. Low quality things can be beloved, and high quality things can be panned. And, yet, it's unfortunately a very common style of response, as if it's supposed to actually contribute to the conversation or act as a counterargument to criticism.

I think it's a valid response if it is in response to a "they should change it" type of criticism. The popular reception to a work is most definitely a reason to continue to keep on going on as normal, if the reception (or at least the reception that matters) is positive.

[ulisa]

One thing that has bothered the crap out of me is the way saiyan/human hybrids act. They act way too "human" and almost nothing like saiyans. You'd think the saiyan part would over power their human instincts but it doesn't. They're like the most passive characters in the series. Characters like Tien and Piccolo act more like saiyans than actual saiyan hybrids. I'm not saying the should act like Goku and Vegeta but come on they completely lose interest in fighting when it's in their blood to fight. Gohan in particular is the biggest offender of being like this.

I do tend to agree with this. The hybrid characters should have a mix of traits from both races. I thought young Gohan actually had this pretty well being that he trained to get strong and protect but there was still a certain fondness for the act, just not for the same reasons as his father. When you saw him training with his father or Piccolo, he didn’t hate it. When he was on his own in the wilderness, we saw some hints of that too—this amazed response at what he was suddenly capable of. I always loved the ideas introduced in DBO because I think they were good balance points—Gohan uses his research, intelligence and people skills(human side) to promote exploration into ki to reintroduce martial arts fighting to the masses(Saiyan Side)

[ABED]

Reductively boiling down Goku and Vegeta's love of battle due to them being Saiyans. This isn't a slam against anyone in particular, but it is something that bugs me. Plenty of human characters love battle like they do, they just don't have the power Goku and Vegeta do.

[Doctor.]

Reductively boiling down Goku and Vegeta's love of battle due to them being Saiyans. This isn't a slam against anyone in particular, but it is something that bugs me. Plenty of human characters love battle like they do, they just don't have the power Goku and Vegeta do.

Only one that comes to mind is Tenshinhan, but he doesn't go to the same reckless lengths that Goku and Vegeta do in order to fight a strong opponent.

[ABED]

Reductively boiling down Goku and Vegeta's love of battle due to them being Saiyans. This isn't a slam against anyone in particular, but it is something that bugs me. Plenty of human characters love battle like they do, they just don't have the power Goku and Vegeta do.

Only one that comes to mind is Tenshinhan, but he doesn't go to the same reckless lengths that Goku and Vegeta do in order to fight a strong opponent.

Because he's completely out of his depths by the time the Saiyans arrive. Piccolo also loves a good fight. I don't recall him ever arguing against Goku's idea to fight the cyborgs instead of stopping them from being created.

[ulisa]

Reductively boiling down Goku and Vegeta's love of battle due to them being Saiyans. This isn't a slam against anyone in particular, but it is something that bugs me. Plenty of human characters love battle like they do, they just don't have the power Goku and Vegeta do.

This is true to some degree. I suppose I’ve always seen it as for the human fighters, battles and a good fight is a desire whereas I always assumed with Saiyans, it’s a literal need.

Humans can enjoy the thrill and the joy of growing stronger but I always thought for Saiyans, it’s as much a need as food or water. For Half Saiyans, it wouldn’t be as strong but I’d imagine given enough time, it could start to resemble an addict needing a fix. Hence, lack of fighting could have a serious detrimental effect.

Granted, this is mainly head-canon but that’s the impression I always got.

[ABED]

It seemed Saiyans were more preoccupied with the savagery than the thrill of the battle. Goku and even Vegeta are shown to be quite different than most Saiyans. Clearly Saiyans are different than humans, but the love of the fight isn't a purely Saiyan trait.

[Bruma rabu]

It seemed Saiyans were more preoccupied with the savagery than the thrill of the battle. Goku and even Vegeta are shown to be quite different than most Saiyans. Clearly Saiyans are different than humans, but the love of the fight isn't a purely Saiyan trait.

I think its obvious that for goku its always be about the thrill of the fight but that wasn't always the case for Vegeta. Vegeta was very much a savage when we first meet him. Goku changed him and you could say his speech in the buu arc was Vegeta acknowledgment of this.

It seemed Saiyans were more preoccupied with the savagery than the thrill of the battle. Goku and even Vegeta are shown to be quite different than most Saiyans. Clearly Saiyans are different than humans, but the love of the fight isn't a purely Saiyan trait.

I think that has to do more with Saiyan culture that developed in U7. I dont think that Saiyans are savages in nature, U6 Saiyans and Goku are good examples of this. Goku and Vegeta come from the same planet and the same culture but Goku was raised out side of that. While to love of battle isn't a strictly only Saiyan trait it is one that is baked into their race.

[Pirina_Fusee]

I wouldn't say this makes me crazy with anger or anything but I always thought Dabura was wasted. He easily had the hype necessary to be the main villain of an arc, but instead he's a forgettable henchman for some reason.

[Logania]

Gohan's change in behavior at the Cell Games, regarding his pacifism going to exaggerated proportions.

It was never an issue with him fighting when it meant protecting the Earth and his friends/family, but suddenly it just gets so extreme he doesn't even want to throw a punch at Cell when just 11 days ago he wanted to go down that lookout and throw down with him when he almost killed Piccolo.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I wouldn't say this makes me crazy with anger or anything but I always thought Dabura was wasted. He easily had the hype necessary to be the main villain of an arc, but instead he's a forgettable henchman for some reason.

It certainly makes me crazy with anger, my boy Dabura is being screwed.

[goku the krump dancer]

Gohan's change in behavior at the Cell Games, regarding his pacifism going to exaggerated proportions.

It was never an issue with him fighting when it meant protecting the Earth and his friends/family, but suddenly it just gets so extreme he doesn't even want to throw a punch at Cell when just 11 days ago he wanted to go down that lookout and throw down with him when he almost killed Piccolo.

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span and I think that was just a filler moment when he wanted to run down there and Goku actually had to hit him to calm him down. Either way, just because Gohan volunteers to fight doesn't mean he has even half the enthusiasm about it like his dad and mentors. He was forced physically and emotionally into combat ever since he was four years old. He Wanted to go to namek to find the dragon balls and bring Piccolo back, he wasnt hoping to run into Vegeta and Freeza in hopes of picking fights to test his strength.

He revealed to the world a side that we've never got a a chance to see up till that point and it has been consistent with his character since then.. which is why the Boo arcs and beyond have played out like they have for Gohan.

[Logania]

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span and I think that was just a filler moment when he wanted to run down there and Goku actually had to hit him to calm him down. Either way, just because Gohan volunteers to fight doesn't mean he has even half the enthusiasm about it like his dad and mentors. He was forced physically and emotionally into combat ever since he was four years old. He Wanted to go to namek to find the dragon balls and bring Piccolo back, he wasnt hoping to run into Vegeta and Freeza in hopes of picking fights to test his strength.

He revealed to the world a side that we've never got a a chance to see up till that point and it has been consistent with his character since then.. which is why the Boo arcs and beyond have played out like they have for Gohan.

He was kidnapped and for the first Saiyan fight with the Saibaman/Nappa he is scared and timid, not wanting to fight but that's because it's his first battle, yet every moment afterwards he wants to fight, yes not for the thrill of battle but to protect people. He's never had the dilemma of fearing his own power and not wanting to fight at all with Vegeta, Dodoria, Guldo, Recoome, Ginyu, Freeza, none of them.

At the start of the Androids Saga he's ready to go fight Freeza and wants to train with Goku and Piccolo to prepare for the Androids when he doesn't have to. An issue fighting with Cell that is never brought up or mentioned ever again, even purposely going out and stopping criminals as the Great Saiyaman, wanting to stop Majin Buu, fight Beerus, Freeza and his forces etc when he doesn't have to.

If he had some change of mindset in the RoSaT where his pacifism is cranked to 11, I would've liked to see it, considering it's such a major factor in the Cell Games.

[goku the krump dancer]

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span and I think that was just a filler moment when he wanted to run down there and Goku actually had to hit him to calm him down. Either way, just because Gohan volunteers to fight doesn't mean he has even half the enthusiasm about it like his dad and mentors. He was forced physically and emotionally into combat ever since he was four years old. He Wanted to go to namek to find the dragon balls and bring Piccolo back, he wasnt hoping to run into Vegeta and Freeza in hopes of picking fights to test his strength.

He revealed to the world a side that we've never got a a chance to see up till that point and it has been consistent with his character since then.. which is why the Boo arcs and beyond have played out like they have for Gohan.

He was kidnapped and for the first Saiyan fight with the Saibaman/Nappa he is scared and timid, not wanting to fight but that's because it's his first battle, yet every moment afterwards he wants to fight, yes not for the thrill of battle but to protect people. He's never had the dilemma of fearing his own power and not wanting to fight at all with Vegeta, Dodoria, Guldo, Recoome, Ginyu, Freeza, none of them.

At the start of the Androids Saga he's ready to go fight Freeza and wants to train with Goku and Piccolo to prepare for the Androids when he doesn't have to. An issue fighting with Cell that is never brought up or mentioned ever again, even purposely going out and stopping criminals as the Great Saiyaman, wanting to stop Majin Buu, fight Beerus, Freeza and his forces etc when he doesn't have to.

If he had some change of mindset in the RoSaT where his pacifism is cranked to 11, I would've liked to see it, considering it's such a major factor in the Cell Games.

In all those situations he was still forced to fight. Even though Goku didnt twist his (Gohan's) arm to help fight the Robots, Gohan only wanted to help since he learned that he was gonna die anyway. I would try to get a leg up on someone who I knew had it out for me too. In the Namek arc he wasnt consciously aware of his "Rage Boosts".

When Freeza came to earth with his Dad. Gohan went to the scene to investigate. No one was 100% sure who's power it was until they saw him. It was far too large to ignore and whether he went to the scene or not he was gonna be forced to fight anyway should things had gotten outta control.

He wanted to stop Boo because it was HIS energy that was used to revive him and at the behest of the Supreme Kai. Beerus came to them looking for a fight and so did Freeza in his second come back.

All that being said though, we didnt need to see Gohan's epiphany. He told Cell he didnt like fighting yet proceeded to fight anyway. Gohan not liking to fight has stuck with him since then. Its not out of character or anything like that. its part of who he is.

[ABED]

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span

That wasn't dramatized!

[goku the krump dancer]

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span

That wasn't dramatized!

Did it have to be?

[ABED]

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span

That wasn't dramatized!

Did it have to be?

What reason is there to not dramatize a change in character or at the very least give a reason for it? As it stands, he changed off screen and for no discernible reason.