Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Much like how Goku's power was a product of repeated battles/training, yet he can further increase his power through a technique (Kaio-ken)? Same thing with Dyspo. He developed the Light-Bullet technique to increase his speed.

1) Dyspo's speed doesn't increase due to a technique. 2) Toppo stated it's HIS speed! A technique has nothing to do with Hit scheming to lure Dyspo off the edge cause he could not handle his raw speed. They aren't the same, you are reaching.

1) Dyspo literally said he can increase his speed thousands of times in an instant, exactly like how Kaio-ken raise the user's power in a brief moment.

2) It is his speed, it's just heightened via the use of his own technique.

No where was it stated that it was a technique. Everyone says Dyspo IS fast, it is his natural power. Regardless if the speed boost is a technique or not, it has nothing to do with the subject about Hit not being powerful enough to handle Dyspo HEAD UP, which he couldn't, hence why he had to lead him off the ledge. You're trying to mix the two, it isn't working.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The way I see it, Dyspo's speed is a specifically honed element of his power that has been trained and perfected much more greatly than his other attributes.

It's like how ascending to SS Grade 3 increases one's strength but actually decreases speed. In a similar vein are Botamo and Magetta, whom have MUCH higher durability than their actual strength would suggest; they can't really be hurt by regular levels of power despite not having actual strength surpassing those levels.

So, rather than train to up his abilities all around like fighters such as Goku, Dyspo has trained and focused his speed to be his greatest strength. We even see that his physical strength isn't up to snuff; SS Goku can actually struggle with Maji Kayo's hold whilst Dyspo is completely helpless.

[Helios518]

1) Dyspo's speed doesn't increase due to a technique. 2) Toppo stated it's HIS speed! A technique has nothing to do with Hit scheming to lure Dyspo off the edge cause he could not handle his raw speed. They aren't the same, you are reaching.

1) Dyspo literally said he can increase his speed thousands of times in an instant, exactly like how Kaio-ken raise the user's power in a brief moment.

2) It is his speed, it's just heightened via the use of his own technique.

No where was it stated that it was a technique. Everyone says Dyspo IS fast, it is his natural power. Regardless if the speed boost is a technique or not, it has nothing to do with the subject about Hit not being powerful enough to handle Dyspo HEAD UP, which he couldn't, hence why he had to lead him off the ledge. You're trying to mix the two, it isn't working.

It doesn’t need to be called a technique to know it’s a technique because we know it is one just from the description of it. If that was the case, then a lot of techniques such Ultra Instinct or Mafuuba, wouldn’t be techniques.

The only reason Dyspo did anything to Hit was because Dyspo’s usage of Light Bullet trick/technique/whatever to exploit the Time-Skip’s weakness. In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran. Actually, Dyspo’s counter is way more akin to Goku’s timing counter because Dyspo needs to time his Light Bullet properly to counter Hit.

[Hugo Boss]

In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran.

Actually, the trick is still make the noise to lure Dyspo in, but instead Hit doesn’t go to the pocket dimension. I agree on everything else.

[Bullza]

In the manga, Grand Priest stopped Beerus and Quitela's punch with a single finger.

Could he stop Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren's punch with a single finger in the same way do you think?

[Miracles]

It doesn’t need to be called a technique to know it’s a technique because we know it is one just from the description of it. If that was the case, then a lot of techniques such Ultra Instinct or Mafuuba, wouldn’t be techniques.

The only reason Dyspo did anything to Hit was because Dyspo’s usage of Light Bullet trick/technique/whatever to exploit the Time-Skip’s weakness. In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran. Actually, Dyspo’s counter is way more akin to Goku’s timing counter because Dyspo needs to time his Light Bullet properly to counter Hit.

None of this changes the fact that BASE Dyspo overpowered Hit with raw power. Hit couldn't keep up and therefore was forced to fight another way.
Dyspo > Hit.

[Helios518]

It doesn’t need to be called a technique to know it’s a technique because we know it is one just from the description of it. If that was the case, then a lot of techniques such Ultra Instinct or Mafuuba, wouldn’t be techniques.

The only reason Dyspo did anything to Hit was because Dyspo’s usage of Light Bullet trick/technique/whatever to exploit the Time-Skip’s weakness. In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran. Actually, Dyspo’s counter is way more akin to Goku’s timing counter because Dyspo needs to time his Light Bullet properly to counter Hit.

None of this changes the fact that BASE Dyspo overpowered Hit with raw power. Hit couldn't keep up and therefore was forced to fight another way.
Dyspo > Hit.

Very similar to how base Dyspo couldn't keep up Hit without relying on his insane hearing, and not with raw power like Geran managed to do.

[Miracles]

It doesn’t need to be called a technique to know it’s a technique because we know it is one just from the description of it. If that was the case, then a lot of techniques such Ultra Instinct or Mafuuba, wouldn’t be techniques.

The only reason Dyspo did anything to Hit was because Dyspo’s usage of Light Bullet trick/technique/whatever to exploit the Time-Skip’s weakness. In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran. Actually, Dyspo’s counter is way more akin to Goku’s timing counter because Dyspo needs to time his Light Bullet properly to counter Hit.

None of this changes the fact that BASE Dyspo overpowered Hit with raw power. Hit couldn't keep up and therefore was forced to fight another way.
Dyspo > Hit.

Very similar to how base Dyspo couldn't keep up Hit without relying on his insane hearing, and not with raw power like Geran managed to do.

Dyspo's hearing IS part of his power arsenal. Hit giving away his movements is HIS weakness. Dyspo was pummeling Hit all over the place with blows. Dyspo also blitzed SSJG Goku the same way, would punch him before he used Instantaneous movement.
Jiren > Toppo> Dyspo > Freeza > Hit.

[ZombieVito]

The way I see it, Dyspo's speed is a specifically honed element of his power that has been trained and perfected much more greatly than his other attributes.

It's like how ascending to SS Grade 3 increases one's strength but actually decreases speed. In a similar vein are Botamo and Magetta, whom have MUCH higher durability than their actual strength would suggest; they can't really be hurt by regular levels of power despite not having actual strength surpassing those levels.

So, rather than train to up his abilities all around like fighters such as Goku, Dyspo has trained and focused his speed to be his greatest strength. We even see that his physical strength isn't up to snuff; SS Goku can actually struggle with Maji Kayo's hold whilst Dyspo is completely helpless.

Fantastic!

I didn't noticed this before. Another point for Dyspo being base tier.

[Lord Beerus]

The way I see it, Dyspo's speed is a specifically honed element of his power that has been trained and perfected much more greatly than his other attributes.

It's like how ascending to SS Grade 3 increases one's strength but actually decreases speed. In a similar vein are Botamo and Magetta, whom have MUCH higher durability than their actual strength would suggest; they can't really be hurt by regular levels of power despite not having actual strength surpassing those levels.

So, rather than train to up his abilities all around like fighters such as Goku, Dyspo has trained and focused his speed to be his greatest strength. We even see that his physical strength isn't up to snuff; SS Goku can actually struggle with Maji Kayo's hold whilst Dyspo is completely helpless.

Fantastic!

I didn't noticed this before. Another point for Dyspo being base tier.

So, like I've said in the past, Dyspo is basically The Flash, right? In that his speed is also his strength.

[Helios518]

None of this changes the fact that BASE Dyspo overpowered Hit with raw power. Hit couldn't keep up and therefore was forced to fight another way.
Dyspo > Hit.

Very similar to how base Dyspo couldn't keep up Hit without relying on his insane hearing, and not with raw power like Geran managed to do.

Dyspo's hearing IS part of his power arsenal. Hit giving away his movements is HIS weakness. Dyspo was pummeling Hit all over the place with blows. Dyspo also blitzed SSJG Goku the same way, would punch him before he used Instantaneous movement.
Jiren > Toppo> Dyspo > Freeza > Hit.

You're mixing raw power and power arsenal. Dyspo didn't counter Hit with his raw power, he did it with used a his hearing. Also, Dyspo got manhandled when he couldn't counter Time-Skip which was how the fight should've been from the start if Dyspo didn't have intel and/or the hearing. If Dyspo could defeat Hit with raw power, then he wouldn't need to use his hearing and/or the intel.

In the episode, Hit counters Dyspo by not making any sound when doing Time-Skip, but that counter wouldn’t work if Dyspo was too powerful as seen with Geran.

Actually, the trick is still make the noise to lure Dyspo in, but instead Hit doesn’t go to the pocket dimension. I agree on everything else.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[HeroR]

The way I see it, Dyspo's speed is a specifically honed element of his power that has been trained and perfected much more greatly than his other attributes.

It's like how ascending to SS Grade 3 increases one's strength but actually decreases speed. In a similar vein are Botamo and Magetta, whom have MUCH higher durability than their actual strength would suggest; they can't really be hurt by regular levels of power despite not having actual strength surpassing those levels.

So, rather than train to up his abilities all around like fighters such as Goku, Dyspo has trained and focused his speed to be his greatest strength. We even see that his physical strength isn't up to snuff; SS Goku can actually struggle with Maji Kayo's hold whilst Dyspo is completely helpless.

Fantastic!

I didn't noticed this before. Another point for Dyspo being base tier.

So, like I've said in the past, Dyspo is basically The Flash, right? In that his speed is also his strength.

Except Dyspo easily freed himself when given the chance. Calling Dyspo base tier is a severe low-ball since it was stated over again in Z that speed means nothing without power. Dyspo is at least within the range of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, but what puts him over is his speed.

Using the Flash is flawed because the Flash is more than just speed if you know anything about the Speed Force.

[Nevaeh]

Just noticed that Bandai/Toei labeled Kale's "controlled/mastered" form SSJ2. Interesting

Feats wise it makes sense. Her SSJ2 form could barely handle God Goku while her Broly/Berserk form tanked Goku's kamehameha and made Jiren twitch

[TheUltimateNinja]

Just noticed that Bandai/Toei labeled Kale's "controlled/mastered" form SSJ2. Interesting

Feats wise it makes sense. Her SSJ2 form could barely handle God Goku while her Broly/Berserk form tanked Goku's kamehameha and made Jiren twitch

Except it was outright stated to be superior to her Berserk form.

[Nevaeh]

Just noticed that Bandai/Toei labeled Kale's "controlled/mastered" form SSJ2. Interesting

Feats wise it makes sense. Her SSJ2 form could barely handle God Goku while her Broly/Berserk form tanked Goku's kamehameha and made Jiren twitch

Except it was outright stated to be superior to her Berserk form.

And yet her Berserk form was shown to be superior

Scaling wise it makes sense: Berserk > SSJ2 >>> SSJ

[Kenneth La Torre]

Her supposedly ssj2 is beyond her berserk form, that is very much a fact as it was stated in the show. I'm sure that everyone (its been many months now) is aware that goku was stupidly suppressed agains berserk form kale.

[ZombieVito]

Except Dyspo easily freed himself when given the chance. Calling Dyspo base tier is a severe low-ball since it was stated over again in Z that speed means nothing without power. Dyspo is at least within the range of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, but what puts him over is his speed.

Using the Flash is flawed because the Flash is more than just speed if you know anything about the Speed Force.

Speed =/= Power.

Just because you are a match with someone's power level doesn't mean you also match his speed. Stronger fighters can be slower than weaker ones.

This was proven with Burter, Ginyu and 17.

The mere fact FF Freeza trashed Dyspo makes him base tier.

[Bullza]

I thought Dyspo was beating Frieza in the end? That's why he went Golden.

[Nevaeh]

Her supposedly ssj2 is beyond her berserk form, that is very much a fact as it was stated in the show. I'm sure that everyone (its been many months now) is aware that goku was stupidly suppressed agains berserk form kale.

Her feats say otherwise tho. Like making Jiren twitch. The only people to do that were Blue Goku and SSJ Kefla while fighting

Statement wise: SSJ2 Kale > Berserk
Feat wise: Berserk > SSJ2 Kale

In the same episode Vegeta said he was the strongest saiyan in the tourney and nobody ever contradicts him. That means Blue Vegeta > UI Goku, right?

[Kenneth La Torre]

Her supposedly ssj2 is beyond her berserk form, that is very much a fact as it was stated in the show. I'm sure that everyone (its been many months now) is aware that goku was stupidly suppressed agains berserk form kale.

Her feats say otherwise tho. Like making Jiren twitch. The only people to do that were Blue Goku and SSJ Kefla while fighting

Statement wise: SSJ2 Kale > Berserk
Feat wise: Berserk > SSJ2 Kale

In the same episode Vegeta said he was the strongest saiyan in the tourney and nobody ever contradicts him. That means Blue Vegeta > UI Goku, right?

“SS2” kale > Berserker Kale, theres no arguing there, especially when the show explicitely states it, and she holds her own against a somewhat tired SSG Goku. Berserk has no feats other than overcoming an IMMENSELY suppressed ssb goku, and we know how much he can suppressed himself (ssb vs krillin)

Also, vegeta has always called himself the #1 saiyan, after all, he is the prince of them (technically the king).

Feats arent always > statements. If thats the case, ssg goku from the BoG arc would be above anything prior to the ToP arc. Or everyone from GT would be below Saiyan saga characters.