This has been terrible world-building so far. The concept itself? It's fine. In fact, it's more than fine: it's great. The opportunity to showcase a variety of different universes, with different characters, different lore, different locations, different energy sources, different physics if you get creative with it. The way it actually has been presented so far? Terrible. We haven't actually explored any of them. Rather, we've already limited the scope of the multiverse by not only placing a number on the number of universes, but by also introducing all of their strongest beings at once. The creatures in these universes, along with their Gods, could have presented Goku & co with a huge, difficult ladder to climb, but it turns out Goku was already stronger than 99% of them regardless and surpassed the Gods in a few arcs. The universes also fall into the same pitfall that a lot of sci-fi series fall into: that is, you present us with a planet that could have been scaled down to a city or a country and nothing changes in the story because the planet is lacking in culture, language, variety and overall depth. Only this problem is on a larger scale, as multiple universes are stripped down to one or two characteristics (U2 and U3 are extreme cases of this, with seemingly their only traits being "beauty" and "technology"). Further, the Gods of Destruction lose all the mysticism that made Beerus' introduction into the cosmos so interesting when you already present a tournament where seemingly the mortals all already know and have contact with their respective GoDs. Though, I admit, this is a minor complaint. Still, the lack of any kind of depth to these universes and the characters that come from them make this expansion in the lore almost useless.Lujin_16 wrote: 1. Expanded Universes
I would give you this, because I agreed with you a while back, but I thought some more about it, and no, that's not really the case. First off, DB and Z both have some kind of basic strategy and tactics being implemented into the fights. This is undeniable. Second, while DBS may be more creative in regards to the abilities and the depth of the strategies presented, it doesn't really change the formula at all, because power still trumps everything else 90% of the time. Remember Toppo's Hakai and how it was hinted at in his episode that they'd need some kind of strategy to get around it? Yeah, it got punched away one episode later.Lujin_16 wrote: 2. More In-Depth Fighting Strategy
I mean, this is just objectively incorrect. We have the ending of the series right in front of us. We know everyone who matters lives. The only characters who serve as exceptions to this are Beerus & Whis, returning characters like Freeza/17/Trunks and any other new characters, who I'd say matter if the series made an effort to make us care about them, but they're dispatched quickly in an episode like we saw in the ToP. Still, it's depressing when compared to the original series when anyone could die at anytime and you never had the certainty they would return regardless of the number of Dragon Balls there were.Lujin_16 wrote:3. Bigger stakes
If the only thing positive about them is that they're not "typical", then sure, I'll give this to you. But I'm not exactly sure this makes them any better than the Z villains, considering Zamasu's archetype has been done much better elsewhere in the 20 years between the two series.Lujin_16 wrote:4. Black Goku & Zamasu not the typical Z villains
Pointless callbacks that do nothing more than point out a much cooler event that happened in the original series mean nothing. Callbacks are cool ideas when they're used to demonstrate some kind of contrast between the present situation and the past situation. An example of a good callback is Goku and Vegeta's poses at the end of #131 because Vegeta and Goku are now on equal footing and they're fighting as friends, not as enemies. It's too conservative of an example, but it gets the job done because it actually has some weight to it. But most of the other moments in Super that reference the original series are just pointless homages that you can, in no way, tie to the original scene; so it feels more like the series is trying to piggyback off of the success of the previous series rather than anything else.Lujin_16 wrote: 5. Callbacks to Dragonball
I'm not exactly sure this is quantifiable. Even so, Z was a lot longer and the Majin Boo arc was mostly comedic, so I'd have a harder time believing this.Lujin_16 wrote: 6. a lot more funny moments than Z
Not exactly sure what you mean by this. Most Super antagonists are introduced right at the start of the arc. It took Cell and Boo some time to even make their first appearance.Lujin_16 wrote: 7. they take their time to introduce a new villain(If Super comes back)
Again, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. How is the series unpredictable when we know most of the characters will live and nothing bad will happen to them? It's certainly not unpredictable when it comes to stakes. Is it unpredictable when it comes to the actual plot developments? Sure, but so were Z's. I'm afraid this seems more like a case of confirmation bias than anything. When you watched Z for the first time, unless someone told you what happened, you wouldn't have predicted a lot of the events that happened. Surely, you wouldn't have predicted Trunks' first appearance, or Cell's, or Kid Boo blowing up the Earth, or Goku being an alien, or Freeza impaling Kuririn, so on and so forth.Lujin_16 wrote: 8. UNPREDICTABILITY
This is a positive that immediately gets overshadowed by the hugest negative of all, which is that ANY character can jump years of harsh training under severe and special conditions and circumstances to get as strong as Goku and Vegeta because the plot demands them to be, thus making Goku and Vegeta's efforts less meaningful and the SSG/SSB forms less special and impressive as a result.Lujin_16 wrote:9. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who knows the ssg form and does not the same mistake like Z with everyone knowing the super saiyan form
I'll agree to this, even if I feel like Ultra Instinct manifesting itself through not one, but two different transformations is incredibly stupid considering it's just supposed to be a technique that amps your reaction speed, not your entire stats and changes your physical appearance.Lujin_16 wrote:10. Ultra instinct is more interesting and mysterious than any other form in Z i mean Goku still does not know how to do it
While I agree that the Tournament of Power has done wonders to Freeza, I won't agree that future Trunks destroyed Freeza's characters. The movies and filler may have done it, but nothing 'canon'. On the other hand, I believe that what has tarnished Freeza as a character most of all comes directly from Resurrection 'F', which is a part of the modern Dragon Ball revival and has been adapted in Super.Lujin_16 wrote:11. Super has changed Frieza in a badass again i mean we all know how Z destroyed his character after the Frieza arc easily by Future Trunks
I agree, though I feel like #17 has been over-utilized and needlessly shoved into scenes he had no place being in.Lujin_16 wrote: 12. C-17 is so much more enjoyable as character in Super than in Z
I mean, it wasn't really 'happy' but it wasn't a depressing ending either. It was bittersweet. But so was the Cell arc; after all, Goku died.Lujin_16 wrote:13. The black Goku arc was the first arc with no happy ending
Sure, it was the biggest, but considering the large number of structural problems it had, which are objectively verifiable, then I don't really think it was for the best.Lujin_16 wrote:14. introduced the biggest tournament in Dragonball