Physics of planet Vegeta

[Terra-jin]

I’ve been doing a little calculations around planet Vegeta and its gravity, trying to determine its size, mass and the effects on life, the atmosphere and nature.

Its size can be calculated by the following formula: g = m/√r2 . ‘g’ is the gravity related to that of Earth’s (in this case: 10); m is the mass related to that of Earth and r is the radius (also related to Earth’s). If we assume the density of Vegeta’s crust, mantle and core remains the same, we can express ‘r’ in relation to ‘m’: r = 3√m since radius is one-dimensional and volume (equaling mass in this case) is three-dimensional. If we rewrite the formula this way we get g = √m. If g = 10, m = 100 and following the original formula r = 4,64 times the Earth’s.
So, planet Vegeta is 4,64 times bigger than Earth and its mass is 100 times that of Earth. If we do take into account the increased density of the planet under its gravitational pressure, the numbers may vary a bit?

The next point is planet Vegeta’s life. If life like Earth’s would be on Vegeta, it would weigh ten times as much and probably wouldn’t survive. To weigh as much as it does on Earth, Vegeta-sei’s life would need 0,1 times as much mass. Following that, its volume would need to be 3√10 or 2,15 times smaller.
So, life on Vegeta could be the same as Earth’s except that it needs to be 2,15 times smaller. This doesn’t take into account that the same weight would rest on smaller bodies, which would still cause problems for the life on Vegeta. Perhaps it needs to be even smaller?
Any life-form bigger than this would need something extra to manage their heavy weight on planet Vegeta. The Saiyans, who are 2,15 times bigger than they should be would need a lot of energy (ki) to survive; a point already made clear in the series. Perhaps there is animal- or plant-life that contains more ki to support its bigger size. I would imagine that consuming these animals / plants would give you more energy than regular-size ones.

Another interesting factor is the atmosphere. In order to provide the same pressure, the volume of the atmosphere would need to be 2,15 times smaller. As a result of this, the sky may be of a different color because light meets less air particles on its way.

What about Vegeta’s oceans, mountains and nature in general? Would it also be 2,15 times smaller? I’ve been trying to paint a complete picture of a real-life planet Vegeta, so I’d love to see your input

[xzero]

Umm ... wow...

I'm going to go ahead and believe you on this one. What would be cool is if someone could take your calculations and the images we see in DBZ (particularly in the Bardock special) and make a 3D Google Earth type representation of Planet Vegeta. Google Vegeta.

I don't have much else to contribute, as I am a law student and have long since recognized my inability to comprehend physics and complicated math, but it's actually really cool that you figured that stuff out.

[Omfg_Lssj]

Well... Um... Who really cares?

But I'm not going to discourage you, you seem very well informed on the matter, but I can't input anything more to what you've already mentioned. With as much energy floating around the atmosphere its no wonder all the skies look gloomy and disturbed, pollution up the arse. But nature in general? I think most of the food is harvested around the galaxy, I don't want to get into how they hunted for food when they were living primitavely.

[Chuquita]

Another interesting factor is the atmosphere. In order to provide the same pressure, the volume of the atmosphere would need to be 2,15 times smaller. As a result of this, the sky may be of a different color because light meets less air particles on its way.

I think the sky was red in the Bardock special, I haven't seen it in a while though.

[Kaboom]

Whoa, nelly. I didn't understand half of it because of my tired brain, but it seemed very well thought out.

I just always figured that Plant / Vegeta was denser, so it had a more powerful gravity. Hence the Saiyans being strong and Tuffles being short, and it gave it a thicker, higher atmosphere (within which Bardock "vs" Freeza took place).

[Herms]

Its size can be calculated by the following formula: g = m/√r2 .

I don't want to be a wet blanket or anything, but I have to point out that this statement, along with all your other calculations, isn't actually true. Dragon Ball just doesn't follow real world physics. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try and do physics calculations based off of the show for fun. I think that your post was pretty interesting. Just keep in mind that any conclusions you meet aren't necessarily going to be true of the show's world. If you try to make Dragon Ball conform to real world physics, you'll ultimately end up arguing about galaxies and the speed of light.

But, yeah...despite all that, neat post.

[Shenron]

So, life on Vegeta could be the same as Earth’s except that it needs to be 2,15 times smaller. This doesn’t take into account that the same weight would rest on smaller bodies, which would still cause problems for the life on Vegeta. Perhaps it needs to be even smaller?

I don't get this point. On Earth, all the species do not have the same size, though all of them can bear Earth's gravity.

[caejones]

Well... we could think about how lifeforms vary with altitude in terms of their physical structure? But that's not altogether accurate, either.

Did we see any life on Planet Vegeta that wasn't Saiya or alien or tuffle? (Never mind that we know something had to be there...)

Lezee... Vegeta has a red sky. How would that affect the color of plants and autotrophic bacteria and stuff? Hw would plants be different with the differing gravity, atmosphere, etc? And how would that affect the other lifeforms--such as the Tuffles?
(And... were the Saiyans ntive to planet Vegeta? between filler and GT and ... *head explosion* )

[Thanos6]

Have you been reading The Physics of Superheroes?

[Terra-jin]

So, life on Vegeta could be the same as Earth’s except that it needs to be 2,15 times smaller. This doesn’t take into account that the same weight would rest on smaller bodies, which would still cause problems for the life on Vegeta. Perhaps it needs to be even smaller?

I don't get this point. On Earth, all the species do not have the same size, though all of them can bear Earth's gravity.

It has to do with the fact that a human being can't survive 10 times gravity. I figured that if he would weigh 10 times less, the problem is solved and in order for the human being to weigh times less his actual size would have to be 2,15 times smaller. This way, the density of his bodily mass remains the same. If this were not the case, some of the human physiology / organic compounds wouldn't work right - I think. It may well be that the human body does work with one tenth normal density... that's one of the things I'm trying to figure out.

Yeah, all this is pretty irrelevant if you take Dragonball as fantasy... I guess I'm just intrigued by the possibilities within the real world. You'd be surprised how close it could get to Dragonball's fantasy world.

While I'm at it: here's another idea. As you know, centrifugal force causes objects to accelerate outwards of a circle. Now, the spinning of a planet also causes this centrifugal force and works in the opposite direction as gravity. It's right here on Earth, too, but since the angular speed of a rotating planet is very small (2π rad per 24 hours), the centrifugal force is a negligible fraction of gravity itself. However, it is true that we experience less G's at the equator than at the poles, because there isn't any centrifugal force at the poles.
Imagine if a planet was spinning so rapidly, that the resultant centrifugal force actually halved or even completely counters gravity. You'd have normal gravity at the poles and increasingly less approaching the eqautor.
What does this have to do with Dragonball? Let's say planet Vegeta was spinning so rapidly that 1G reigned at the eqautor and 10G at the poles. The smaller Tsufuru-jin evolved with 10G, making their bodies smaller (see above) and the Saiyans evolved with 1G and therefore became human-sized. As the planet's spin decreased, the net gravity on the equator, where the Saiyans lived, increase. To adapt, the Saiyans increased their life-force to support their heavier bodies with rather than becoming smaller (even though I currently have nothing to back that up).

That could explain Saiyan evolution compared to Tsufuru-jin evolution. The main problem here is that if the planet were spinning as fast as to reduce 10G's to one, it would probably be ripped apart... oh well nice try I guess

[Shenron]

It has to do with the fact that a human being can't survive 10 times gravity. I figured that if he would weigh 10 times less, the problem is solved and in order for the human being to weigh times less his actual size would have to be 2,15 times smaller. This way, the density of his bodily mass remains the same. If this were not the case, some of the human physiology / organic compounds wouldn't work right - I think. It may well be that the human body does work with one tenth normal density... that's one of the things I'm trying to figure out.

OK, you mean that, to survive 10 times gravity, every species should be 10 times smaller, including human being.
But it's true only if you teleport Earth's life on Vegeta instantaneously. The actual species are the results of years of evolution. We can imagine it has been be the same on Vegeta, and then life could be more or less similar. Stronger, but with the same size.

[SaiyaMel]

My type of topic!

Not only in GT Terra-jin,, in the Daizenshuu it is also stated that the Saiya came to Plant on some "mysterious ship" and lived there for some 300 or so years... 300 years is a relatively short period of time to evolve. with that said - it supports my theory that the original home planet of the Saiyan race (which i named Krahpp (in the Saiyan language) - pun on crop as in a vegetable crop. it can be transliterated into English as 'Cropp'), had a gravity quite a bit less than that of Tsufuru's - about 4 G.

I imagine many of the first Saiyan immigrants did not survive Plant's gravitational force - resulting in circulatory and respiratory collapse - which may explain why they were so few of them compared to the Tsufuru population. but those stronger individuals that did manage to survive, adapted and continued the species there... staying about the same size, and becoming more physically powerful rather than smaller.

On a 10 G planet, i imagine the erosion caused by running water would be much more extensive than on Earth - resulting in very deep canyons and gorges, and very rugged terrain making up almost all of the planet's surface. tectonic plate movements could be more violent.... convection zone volcanoes (like Mount St Helens) may grow higher (likewise with mountain ranges created by plate collisions) - but then collapse on themselves in the center,, passive ones like in Hawaii, molten lava may spread out to much greater distances.


@ Chuquita - it appears that Plant started off as a blue planet just like Earth. but then over the years after the Saiyas took over, there was some dramatic echological/enviromental impact that altered the planet's atmosphere and turned the skies red.. waht i cannot say - if someone could fill me in on that...

By the Bardock special,,, those two suns are also considerably less bright.

[DemonKingPiccolo]

If Dragon Ball were realistic, Goku would've blown up like a balloon upon coming to Earth. Gravity also effects the atmospheric pressure on a planet (unless no atmosphere is present). Think of a deep water fish that's brought up to the surface. The intense pressure inside the fish vs the inadequate pressure on the outside causes them to literally......explode. Our bodies are pressurized on the inside to compensate the atmospheric pressure pushing upon us, that's why our bones don't snap under gravity or our bodies inflate like balloons when we're walking around in the street.

[ETC123]

nerd

[FindKenshi]

I’ve been doing a little calculations around planet Vegeta and its gravity, trying to determine its size, mass and the effects on life, the atmosphere and nature.

Its size can be calculated by the following formula: g = m/√r2 . ‘g’ is the gravity related to that of Earth’s (in this case: 10); m is the mass related to that of Earth and r is the radius (also related to Earth’s). If we assume the density of Vegeta’s crust, mantle and core remains the same,

Bolding is where I stopped reading, but please don't take offense. Why should we assume that Vegeta is made of the same base materials as Earth? It could be heavier without really being bigger, were it composed of more dense compounds, couldn't it? The atmosphere doesn't really even have to be the same, either.

I don't know if you're into Warhammer 40k, but read the detailed info about the Space Marines' physical mutations, and you begin to get a bigger imagination--what if that kind of stuff is going on inside a Saiyan's body too? They are the galaxy's warriors. Wouldn't it make sense if their bodies were capable of surviving on a few different elements other then Oxygen? Maybe the Saiyans are adapt at breathing anywhere and can handle massive temperature changes compared to humans.

Well, I know that is all purely speculation, but so is the massive bulk of your calculations, to determine what Planet Vegeta was like. If anything, Dragonball isn't a science fiction at all, it's just a simple fantasy.

Sorry if I come off as trying to "kill the dream" in this topic, its just my personality trait.

[SaiyaMel]

nerd

proud to be one

Hi Demi #2

If Dragon Ball were realistic, Goku would've blown up like a balloon upon coming to Earth. Gravity also effects the atmospheric pressure on a planet (unless no atmosphere is present). Think of a deep water fish that's brought up to the surface. The intense pressure inside the fish vs the inadequate pressure on the outside causes them to literally......explode. Our bodies are pressurized on the inside to compensate the atmospheric pressure pushing upon us, that's why our bones don't snap under gravity or our bodies inflate like balloons when we're walking around in the street.

I haven't thought of that.. but how come then astronauts don't explode inside the ships once they reach the weightless environment of space?

In my project - i want things to be realistic, but i guess since it's Dragonball - not everything about real life would have to apply..

[caejones]

Perhaps the spacepods adjusted for pressure changes? Think about people who take submarines to the high-pressure zones and deep-sea divers and... yeah... astronaughts...
And if I can flashback to 2000... at SpaceCamp Huntsville there was a Mars Mission area, which basically consisted of a room with what resembled plaster made into a martian landscape of sorts, and connected to it was the base-place; the idea was that there was a chamber between the bulk of the base and the surface for pressure changes, and if the doors were opened when the pressure hadn't stablized, we died. (The only person who wound up screwing up and opening it was in fact the counselor that led the group... -.-).

Though, I imagine pressure is going to play a role in the development and survival of species like the Saiya(ji)n... somehow the lack of pressure-based exploding doesn't surprise me.

[b_boult]

Since reading this thread, I've started to wonder about other things too, like the genetic make up of the black outlines for each of the characters represented in the series. What lies behind them, for instance, what is their DNA code? - and which chromosomes would be needed to facilitate their formation? Some people think I'm going too far, because it's just a cartoon, but I disagree.

[FindKenshi]

Since reading this thread, I've started to wonder about other things too, like the genetic make up of the black outlines for each of the characters represented in the series. What lies behind them, for instance, what is their DNA code? - and which chromosomes would be needed to facilitate their formation? Some people think I'm going too far, because it's just a cartoon, but I disagree.

I never thought about that.. perhase the characters in the Dragonball universe have some kind of thin membrane surrounding their bodies that produces the illusion of this "black outline."

[SaiyaMel]

Since reading this thread, I've started to wonder about other things too, like the genetic make up of the black outlines for each of the characters represented in the series. What lies behind them, for instance, what is their DNA code? - and which chromosomes would be needed to facilitate their formation? Some people think I'm going too far, because it's just a cartoon, but I disagree.

I never thought about that.. perhase the characters in the Dragonball universe have some kind of thin membrane surrounding their bodies that produces the illusion of this "black outline."

That however, i'm not gonna get into... all drawn cartoons have that.