Unpopular DB opinions

[Scsigs]

Well first of all, I did edit the "triggered" and "naive" out of my post. I was a bit taken aback at the reply and responded in a way I shouldn't have. Apologies. I can't remember a TFS reference in Kai 1.0. And, sure, it had creative liberties too (and I never did like them changing attack names mid series) but they weren't anywhere near as obvious. It's taste really, and in my case, I feel what seem like nitpicks or things that don't really matter are actually subtle character quirks that alter my perception of them. But, we can at least both agree that we're way better off than we were back in the late 90s, early 00s when it comes to localization and dubbing.

Yeah, my point exactly. I don't mind a dub containing some in-jokes to the fan community, or funny line changes, as long as it's accurate the other 99% of the time. Obviously, this is a subjective thing, but I just feel that they're having fun with the newer dubs & try to work the jokes in naturally rather than like they did int he Z dub, when they were sprinkled in every other line because they didn't think kids could handle something more serious than Mighty Morphin Power Rangers Season 1. Some things are legitimately errors to bring up, like the changed line from Trunks when he talks to 18, but I still felt the line made sense in context. Maybe I'm just used to FUNi's dubbing style, but I don't feel the majority of additions, slight tweaks, or small changes is done out of malice or contempt. They're having fun with it. At least, that's the feeling I get from these dubs.

[Kokonoe]

Can't say it's an unpopular opinion cause this is relatively new content, but I wanted to share my opinion somewhere and I figure might as well post here.

I think Golden Cooler looks vastly cooler than Golden Frieza and I hope he appears in Super at some point.

[Scsigs]

Well first of all, I did edit the "triggered" and "naive" out of my post. I was a bit taken aback at the reply and responded in a way I shouldn't have. Apologies. I can't remember a TFS reference in Kai 1.0. And, sure, it had creative liberties too (and I never did like them changing attack names mid series) but they weren't anywhere near as obvious. It's taste really, and in my case, I feel what seem like nitpicks or things that don't really matter are actually subtle character quirks that alter my perception of them. But, we can at least both agree that we're way better off than we were back in the late 90s, early 00s when it comes to localization and dubbing.

I should've added this before, but also, the TV version of the dub had a few more in-jokes, most notably Chris Sabat imitating Brian Drummond's delivery of the "Over 9000" line from the Ocean dub. This was corrected for the home releases, but you can find clips of this on YouTube.

[TKA]

Most unpopular opinion in this thread time:

Dragonball (in its original incarnation) is a perfect series. What people deem as bugs, I see as features, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

[jeffbr92]

I think Golden Cooler looks vastly cooler than Golden Frieza and I hope he appears in Super at some point.

Though I agree with you, that's very unlikely to happen: Super has ended and Cooler does not exist in its continuity.

Dragonball (in its original incarnation) is a perfect series. What people deem as bugs, I see as features, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Plot holes aside?

[Forte224]

I think Golden Cooler looks vastly cooler than Golden Frieza and I hope he appears in Super at some point.

Though I agree with you, that's very unlikely to happen: Super has ended and Cooler does not exist in its continuity.

Well, he's never been confirmed to not exist and we did get an alternate universe Broly sort of, so it's possible. We've gotten enough hints that Super or something Dragon Ball is coming back in some form, it's not officially over.

Dragonball (in its original incarnation) is a perfect series. What people deem as bugs, I see as features, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Plot holes aside?

Well, he did say in the next sentence that those types of things are features for him. Kind of answers that question.

[jeffbr92]

Well, he's never been confirmed to not exist and we did get an alternate universe Broly sort of, so it's possible. We've gotten enough hints that Super or something Dragon Ball is coming back in some form, it's not officially over

SSJ4 was also never confirmed to not exist in Super and yet everyone knows it wouldn't happen anyway. Kale was a special case because of Broly huge popularity, so I don't think is possible the same thing for Cooler, we already have Frost for the love of god, we don't need a third character just like Freeza and voiced by the same actor. Hints? Nothing about a sequel is confirmed, we only know about the upcoming movie and what will comes next still a mystery.

Well, he did say in the next sentence that those types of things are features for him. Kind of answers that question.

So, I was kinda expecting this answer from him since I don't believe things like: time travels/timelines, Cell head nucleus e.g are good features.

[TKA]

Plot holes aside?

Plot holes included.

[Scsigs]

I think Golden Cooler looks vastly cooler than Golden Frieza and I hope he appears in Super at some point.

Though I agree with you, that's very unlikely to happen: Super has ended and Cooler does not exist in its continuity.

Well, he's never been confirmed to not exist and we did get an alternate universe Broly sort of, so it's possible. We've gotten enough hints that Super or something Dragon Ball is coming back in some form, it's not officially over.

Kale's not really an alternate universe Broly. She just happens to look like him, since they took influence from his design. Not really much else.

[Forte224]

Though I agree with you, that's very unlikely to happen: Super has ended and Cooler does not exist in its continuity.

Well, he's never been confirmed to not exist and we did get an alternate universe Broly sort of, so it's possible. We've gotten enough hints that Super or something Dragon Ball is coming back in some form, it's not officially over.

Kale's not really an alternate universe Broly. She just happens to look like him, since they took influence from his design. Not really much else.

The point is that someone who is a direct reference to Broly now exists in the Dragon Ball canon, and therefore there's no reason to 100% rule out Cooler or a reference to him.

[Scsigs]

Well, he's never been confirmed to not exist and we did get an alternate universe Broly sort of, so it's possible. We've gotten enough hints that Super or something Dragon Ball is coming back in some form, it's not officially over.

Kale's not really an alternate universe Broly. She just happens to look like him, since they took influence from his design. Not really much else.

The point is that someone who is a direct reference to Broly now exists in the Dragon Ball canon, and therefore there's no reason to 100% rule out Cooler or a reference to him.

True, but Cooler is a movie villain. Hell, even Xenoverse wasn't sure how to go about this. They refer to the first 13 Z movies to be alternate timelines in the second movie, as to not be bogged down by the continuity issues those movies created. However, Frieza reacted to Cooler showing up in the second game's story as if he exists within the main timeline as well. However, we can't take any of the games at face value, since Toriyama gets the last word on what's canon, which is why he blatantly ignores GT when he wrote Suer's arcs. This is also why we know Bardock is canon, since he liked that special and later drew Bardock into a panel of the manga when Frieza recounted the incident with Bardock, canonizing the special. Point is, unless he tells them to put in a reference to Cooler (which, so far, they haven't), I say take it as a 'what if'.

[Logania]

Dragonball (in its original incarnation) is a perfect series. What people deem as bugs, I see as features, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Ah, I see you're an employee at Bethesda Softworks.
__________

Goten and Trunks not having screentime in Super is a good thing, and they should not have the spotlight on them at all.

[TKA]

Stuff like the Cell "plot hole" is so pedantic I don't even give it the time of day. If Cells head containing his nucleus was a plot point instead of just throwaway dialogue, then I'd be annoyed by it. If characters had devoted time to figuring that out and then Toriyama just forgot, then I'd be annoyed by it. None of those things happen, so I couldn't care less.

Ah, I see you're an employee at Bethesda Softworks.

Nice, that's exactly where I got the quote from.

[Ripper 30]

Sadly, that was just for Kai 1-98. With BoG and Kai TFC they started to creep that stuff back in there. Now in Super it's gotten more prevalent, even complete with Vegeta making a Yamcha joke. Lol memes!!! Amirite?

You are REALLY overstating how they've done the dubs of BoG, Kai TFC, & Super as a whole. Seriously, actually watch their dubs with the subtitles turned on if you have the home releases. 9 times out of 10, they're dead-on with the Japanese in terms of translation. You're focused on isolated incidents that don't represent the dubs' quality overall. Examples you've brought up or are talking about...
TFS being in Kai TFC. Was this a bad thing? I don't think so. If Dragon Ball were owned by a company in Japan that had a sense of humor, or at least realized that it didn't impact the popularity of the main shows & movies overall, I think keeping it in there would've been an option. I mean, look at some of the dubs that based THEIR scripts off the FUNi scripts. They actually kept those lines in their dubs no problem & that was just an improvised 2-minutes of 1 single episode. If you actually look at the symbolism behind the lines (intended or not by the dub team), it's much more than that they brought TFS into the studio to parody that scene (which, that scene was already a parody of Dragon Ball Z, so I don't get what the problem is with people who make their livings thanks to comedy videos).

The Yamcha joke. This is the single line you weigh the entirety of Super's dub against? Not the badass moments where the dub actors (particularly Sean Schemmel) deliver their lines or scream entirely epically to either match or outshine their Japanese counterparts? Not the fact that they got James Marsters to play Zamasu (who gets better by the episode), or the fact that Eric Vale, Sean Schemmel, & James Marsters all play off each other perfectly in episode 61's dub excellently, complete with great lines that, while taking slight liberties, work within the context of an English dub? The Yamcha joke? Really? This is about as spotty as people saying Super has bad animation every episode based only on episode 5 making headline news (I'm not saying Super's without it's animation problems, but, the majority of the time, it's sold for what I expect from it). You're really gonna judge an English dub based on few-second meta jokes that don't show up that often? There are also legitimate problems with Super's writing from the original Japanese version, but the dub's lines are the ones you're focusing on? Wow.

I am very disappointed with, in particular, Super's dub. Obviously the Yamcha line is not my one and only issue. Here are some more, in no particular order:

-Vegeta's "I'm the star of this show" line. An attempt at breaking the fourth wall at worst; a quirky line that Vegeta would never say at best
-Trunks' encounter with 18, when she brings up him killing her in the future, he stutters and doesn't know what to say in Japanese; he replies with "Well it was you or mankind, so yeah" in English in a brash tone. What's the point of this change?
-James Marster's voice is very spotty and sounds good one line and average the next. It also doesn't match the age that Zamasu looks
-Vegeta calling Bulma "babe" is 100% out of character, along with him using "earth speak" in general
-Vale's overall raspiness that started in Kai, got worse in Xenoverse, and is now only slightly better than XV in Super
-Vegeta's "lame show" in TFC
-TFS in TFC, particularly the "Over 9000" meme being included
-Schemmel's Goku Black really lacks the punch Nozawa's had. To be fair, I don't think anybody could play him better than her
-Sabat's Vegeta sounds way worse than he did in Kai. He's way more gruff, it's like he's trying to find a mid point between Kai 1.0 and the Funi re-dubs

These aren't everything. There are a lot though, and for me, they really add up over time. You may say the lines don't change the overall story, but technically neither did Funi's original Superman Goku. He still became a Super Saiyan and defeated Freeza. But it altered his character, which I'm not a fan of. This is what these altered lines do to the characters. Subtlety is everything when it comes to establishing a character, and the dub slightly altering things (that require no altering) actively messes with those subtleties.

No idea why you're so upset with me though. I won't attack you for liking it but I also don't have to sit and accept the things that you're ok with. If Kai 1.0 never existed I would've probably been more accepting of Super's current dub, but Funi proved they can do an accurate script that we could all love before, and changed it for no reason now.

agreed, James does a fine job but clearly his voice is too deep and at times sounds kinda flat compared to Miki but then again it's Miki, that dude has an awesome voice which is smooth yet makes the character sound smart and calm. his performance as Mustang in FMAB and even currently in One Piece as Pedro is a proof of it so its very hard to copy. i think Nozawa's Black sounded more menacing without it sounding like she is trying too hard to sound "Evil" whereas the Dub voice is improvement over Xenoverse 2 but still Sean kind of tries to sound "Evil Goku " and Rough so it comes off kinda force. i am just not getting that creepy feeling from his Black like i did with Nozawa.
also in the Episode where Goku talked about not kissing, the Japanese version wasn't really implying that goku never kissed Chi Chi but more like Goku wondering why Trunks used his mouth to feed the Senzu which was misunderstood by vegeta as Goku talking about never kissing and all so the humour was kinda subtle but in dub he straight up says he never kissed chi chi and even Geekdom talked about this issue in his new video on Super Dub.

[Logania]

Thats just fan canon that people say to try and save Goku's image on the subject. Even in the manga, Goku flat out admits he doesn't kiss Chi-Chi. It's not a subtle joke on miscommunication.

[Scsigs]

Thats just fan canon that people say to try and save Goku's image on the subject. Even in the manga, Goku flat out admits he doesn't kiss Chi-Chi. It's not a subtle joke on miscommunication.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Meh, it probably has to do with the translation of the Japanese lines on Crunchyroll as well. Wait till the Blu-Ray comes out in several months & compare Simmons' subs to Crunchyroll's. See if he translated it any differently than Crunchyroll's translators. The dub's based off his translations anyways, right? We'll see how close they stuck to his translation for the scene.

[ekrolo2]

The fan idea that Black & Zamasu are quasi-comedic subversions of the standard Final Fantasy archetype. I've had my fill of comedic subversiveness from the past few years of media increasingly relying on that.

[8000 Saiyan]

Sadly, that was just for Kai 1-98. With BoG and Kai TFC they started to creep that stuff back in there. Now in Super it's gotten more prevalent, even complete with Vegeta making a Yamcha joke. Lol memes!!! Amirite?

You are REALLY overstating how they've done the dubs of BoG, Kai TFC, & Super as a whole. Seriously, actually watch their dubs with the subtitles turned on if you have the home releases. 9 times out of 10, they're dead-on with the Japanese in terms of translation. You're focused on isolated incidents that don't represent the dubs' quality overall. Examples you've brought up or are talking about...
TFS being in Kai TFC. Was this a bad thing? I don't think so. If Dragon Ball were owned by a company in Japan that had a sense of humor, or at least realized that it didn't impact the popularity of the main shows & movies overall, I think keeping it in there would've been an option. I mean, look at some of the dubs that based THEIR scripts off the FUNi scripts. They actually kept those lines in their dubs no problem & that was just an improvised 2-minutes of 1 single episode. If you actually look at the symbolism behind the lines (intended or not by the dub team), it's much more than that they brought TFS into the studio to parody that scene (which, that scene was already a parody of Dragon Ball Z, so I don't get what the problem is with people who make their livings thanks to comedy videos).

The Yamcha joke. This is the single line you weigh the entirety of Super's dub against? Not the badass moments where the dub actors (particularly Sean Schemmel) deliver their lines or scream entirely epically to either match or outshine their Japanese counterparts? Not the fact that they got James Marsters to play Zamasu (who gets better by the episode), or the fact that Eric Vale, Sean Schemmel, & James Marsters all play off each other perfectly in episode 61's dub excellently, complete with great lines that, while taking slight liberties, work within the context of an English dub? The Yamcha joke? Really? This is about as spotty as people saying Super has bad animation every episode based only on episode 5 making headline news (I'm not saying Super's without it's animation problems, but, the majority of the time, it's sold for what I expect from it). You're really gonna judge an English dub based on few-second meta jokes that don't show up that often? There are also legitimate problems with Super's writing from the original Japanese version, but the dub's lines are the ones you're focusing on? Wow.

I am very disappointed with, in particular, Super's dub. Obviously the Yamcha line is not my one and only issue. Here are some more, in no particular order:

-Vegeta's "I'm the star of this show" line. An attempt at breaking the fourth wall at worst; a quirky line that Vegeta would never say at best
-Trunks' encounter with 18, when she brings up him killing her in the future, he stutters and doesn't know what to say in Japanese; he replies with "Well it was you or mankind, so yeah" in English in a brash tone. What's the point of this change?
-James Marster's voice is very spotty and sounds good one line and average the next. It also doesn't match the age that Zamasu looks
-Vegeta calling Bulma "babe" is 100% out of character, along with him using "earth speak" in general
-Vale's overall raspiness that started in Kai, got worse in Xenoverse, and is now only slightly better than XV in Super
-Vegeta's "lame show" in TFC
-TFS in TFC, particularly the "Over 9000" meme being included
-Schemmel's Goku Black really lacks the punch Nozawa's had. To be fair, I don't think anybody could play him better than her
-Sabat's Vegeta sounds way worse than he did in Kai. He's way more gruff, it's like he's trying to find a mid point between Kai 1.0 and the Funi re-dubs

These aren't everything. There are a lot though, and for me, they really add up over time. You may say the lines don't change the overall story, but technically neither did Funi's original Superman Goku. He still became a Super Saiyan and defeated Freeza. But it altered his character, which I'm not a fan of. This is what these altered lines do to the characters. Subtlety is everything when it comes to establishing a character, and the dub slightly altering things (that require no altering) actively messes with those subtleties.

No idea why you're so upset with me though. I won't attack you for liking it but I also don't have to sit and accept the things that you're ok with. If Kai 1.0 never existed I would've probably been more accepting of Super's current dub, but Funi proved they can do an accurate script that we could all love before, and changed it for no reason now.

Sometimes I wonder if it was a good decision to keep him as Vegeta. He just works a lot better as Piccolo to me, far better acted.

[Forte224]

[spoiler]

You are REALLY overstating how they've done the dubs of BoG, Kai TFC, & Super as a whole. Seriously, actually watch their dubs with the subtitles turned on if you have the home releases. 9 times out of 10, they're dead-on with the Japanese in terms of translation. You're focused on isolated incidents that don't represent the dubs' quality overall. Examples you've brought up or are talking about...
TFS being in Kai TFC. Was this a bad thing? I don't think so. If Dragon Ball were owned by a company in Japan that had a sense of humor, or at least realized that it didn't impact the popularity of the main shows & movies overall, I think keeping it in there would've been an option. I mean, look at some of the dubs that based THEIR scripts off the FUNi scripts. They actually kept those lines in their dubs no problem & that was just an improvised 2-minutes of 1 single episode. If you actually look at the symbolism behind the lines (intended or not by the dub team), it's much more than that they brought TFS into the studio to parody that scene (which, that scene was already a parody of Dragon Ball Z, so I don't get what the problem is with people who make their livings thanks to comedy videos).

The Yamcha joke. This is the single line you weigh the entirety of Super's dub against? Not the badass moments where the dub actors (particularly Sean Schemmel) deliver their lines or scream entirely epically to either match or outshine their Japanese counterparts? Not the fact that they got James Marsters to play Zamasu (who gets better by the episode), or the fact that Eric Vale, Sean Schemmel, & James Marsters all play off each other perfectly in episode 61's dub excellently, complete with great lines that, while taking slight liberties, work within the context of an English dub? The Yamcha joke? Really? This is about as spotty as people saying Super has bad animation every episode based only on episode 5 making headline news (I'm not saying Super's without it's animation problems, but, the majority of the time, it's sold for what I expect from it). You're really gonna judge an English dub based on few-second meta jokes that don't show up that often? There are also legitimate problems with Super's writing from the original Japanese version, but the dub's lines are the ones you're focusing on? Wow.

I am very disappointed with, in particular, Super's dub. Obviously the Yamcha line is not my one and only issue. Here are some more, in no particular order:

-Vegeta's "I'm the star of this show" line. An attempt at breaking the fourth wall at worst; a quirky line that Vegeta would never say at best
-Trunks' encounter with 18, when she brings up him killing her in the future, he stutters and doesn't know what to say in Japanese; he replies with "Well it was you or mankind, so yeah" in English in a brash tone. What's the point of this change?
-James Marster's voice is very spotty and sounds good one line and average the next. It also doesn't match the age that Zamasu looks
-Vegeta calling Bulma "babe" is 100% out of character, along with him using "earth speak" in general
-Vale's overall raspiness that started in Kai, got worse in Xenoverse, and is now only slightly better than XV in Super
-Vegeta's "lame show" in TFC
-TFS in TFC, particularly the "Over 9000" meme being included
-Schemmel's Goku Black really lacks the punch Nozawa's had. To be fair, I don't think anybody could play him better than her
-Sabat's Vegeta sounds way worse than he did in Kai. He's way more gruff, it's like he's trying to find a mid point between Kai 1.0 and the Funi re-dubs

These aren't everything. There are a lot though, and for me, they really add up over time. You may say the lines don't change the overall story, but technically neither did Funi's original Superman Goku. He still became a Super Saiyan and defeated Freeza. But it altered his character, which I'm not a fan of. This is what these altered lines do to the characters. Subtlety is everything when it comes to establishing a character, and the dub slightly altering things (that require no altering) actively messes with those subtleties.

No idea why you're so upset with me though. I won't attack you for liking it but I also don't have to sit and accept the things that you're ok with. If Kai 1.0 never existed I would've probably been more accepting of Super's current dub, but Funi proved they can do an accurate script that we could all love before, and changed it for no reason now.

[/spoiler]
Sometimes I wonder if it was a good decision to keep him as Vegeta. He just works a lot better as Piccolo to me, far better acted.

I think his Kai 1.0 performance was just fine for Vegeta. TFC and RoF were good too, I'm not sure why he altered things so much for Super.

[jeffbr92]

Thats just fan canon that people say to try and save Goku's image on the subject. Even in the manga, Goku flat out admits he doesn't kiss Chi-Chi. It's not a subtle joke on miscommunication.

And that's unpopular because...?