Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Marlowe89]

The official translated chapter is out, and it confirms that Ribrianne's power literally fluctuates based on how "beautiful" and confident she feels.

Looks like her strength was meant to be totally vague after all.

[Bullza]

Apparently, Xeno Goku had experienced God Ki AND the events of DBGT, and thus is meant to be stronger than his GT counterpart.

Well I'm generally familiar enough with the whole Super Dragon Ball Heroes story because I'm usually the one that updates the Wikia for it and theres a manga as well which is sort of based on it.

I haven't played the games though so I don't know any specifics but Xeno Goku was never shown to become a Super Saiyan God or a Super Saiyan Blue in any of the anime game openings or manga chapters. Again from what I read, when he sees Super Saiyan Blue Goku he doesn't actually know what it is.

[ZombieVito]

The official translated chapter is out, and it confirms that Ribrianne's power literally fluctuates based on how "beautiful" and confident she feels.

Looks like her strength was meant to be totally vague after all.

So Ribrianne can be stronger than 18 and still lose to her. Even in her giant form.

Another unrelated thing I wanted to ask is this:

Is it possible for Kale to have a bigger Portara boost than Vegetto? Trying to do power levels and it gets pretty crazy. SSB Goku is not even 1% of Beerus power thanks to having to get base Vegetto to SSG tier.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Super Saiyan Blue Goku is stated to rival the Gods, so he's comparable to them as in he's not far off from their full power as the definition would mean, not less than 1% of their strength.

Vegito's strength has no bearing on Beerus. They aren't stated to be equal or comparable.

[CJStriker_CBR]

The official translated chapter is out, and it confirms that Ribrianne's power literally fluctuates based on how "beautiful" and confident she feels.

Looks like her strength was meant to be totally vague after all.

So Ribrianne can be stronger than 18 and still lose to her. Even in her giant form.

Another unrelated thing I wanted to ask is this:

Is it possible for Kale to have a bigger Portara boost than Vegetto? Trying to do power levels and it gets pretty crazy. SSB Goku is not even 1% of Beerus power thanks to having to get base Vegetto to SSG tier.

This Form of Power Scaling for Ribrianne/Brianne is exactly what I thought it would be and fits not only perfectly well with Magical Girl Lore of how their powers work, but it is also goes with Green Lantern Mythos from DC Comics.

I like the factor that Dragon Ball Tries at times to intro New Forms of Powering Up characters in different ways outside of always just Training to make their Muscles and Ki Strong like Saiyans and Humans do. In Magical Girl Shows and In Green Lantern Mythos from DC Comics which is called the Emotional Spectrum of Power, the Strong and more True and Confidence the hero has in the area of the Emotional Spectrum that powers their power, the strong they are. If they loss that confidence for whatever reasons they loss they grow weaker, examples happen like this in Precure all the time when they loose confidence in who they are or when a Green Lantern doubts their will or Gives into Fear to certain degrees their powers and constructs become weaker.

Ribrianne I felt fit this mold in her powers perfectly and it gives sense to why at certain moments she lost strength in such odd ways, she was loosing confidence that her powers could win the day, example being her words to Rozie in Episode 111. It could give a new ideal to why 18 become so stronger for the Ribrianne fight as well too, not that Romance Love is not just stronger, but it was how confident in the love one is feeling is at that time, also how true towards themselves, showing how truly 18 loves her Family. Same way with the Manga, Ribrianne was getting some good hits in at the start, but when she go confused and jealous about Krillian's beauty, she lost confidence and hence loss strength.

It what has always made the Emotional Spectrum Line of Powers in both Magical Girl Shows and Green Lantern Mythos so Interesting and Philosophical. It is not about a struggle with how hard you train physically all the time, it is a Struggle within ones self, like a spiritual journey, to achieve the True Self, Concurring ones Demons and Overcome Doubt in ones Will and Beliefs in what you believe in, aka Brianne's belief in Love or Hal Jordan's Belief in his Will and ablity to overcome Fear!

I really Love this Kind of Mythos and it GREATLY Makes me Happy Toei has Confirmed it as Canon, Justifying My Theories as being Right about Ribrianne/Brianne's Powers in how they worked on with this Spectrum!

[TheDipDap1234]

The official translated chapter is out, and it confirms that Ribrianne's power literally fluctuates based on how "beautiful" and confident she feels.

Looks like her strength was meant to be totally vague after all.

So Ribrianne can be stronger than 18 and still lose to her. Even in her giant form.

It explains Ribrianne's powers in the manga but not in the anime. Remember that she was confident while fighting SSJ Vegeta yet couldn't land a punch on base Goku eventhough she was confident in herself during that fight as well. She was also confident when she turned into a giant yet 18 was still able to stop her punch.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Super Saiyan Blue Goku is stated to rival the Gods, so he's comparable to them as in he's not far off from their full power as the definition would mean, not less than 1% of their strength.

Vegito's strength has no bearing on Beerus. They aren't stated to be equal or comparable.

Yes, yes they are. We have two sources comparing them both. The supreme kai in the manga and toyotaro in an interview.

Plus we know they are at less than one percent because of jiren. A guy who can blink away a spirit bomb more powerful than gokus ssb Kkx20 in 110 is definitly at bare minimum more than a hundred times more powerful than a regular ssb, and its likely that all hakaishins still posses more power than that IMMENSELY suppressed jiren.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Apparently, Xeno Goku had experienced God Ki AND the events of DBGT, and thus is meant to be stronger than his GT counterpart.

Well I'm generally familiar enough with the whole Super Dragon Ball Heroes story because I'm usually the one that updates the Wikia for it and theres a manga as well which is sort of based on it.

I haven't played the games though so I don't know any specifics but Xeno Goku was never shown to become a Super Saiyan God or a Super Saiyan Blue in any of the anime game openings or manga chapters. Again from what I read, when he sees Super Saiyan Blue Goku he doesn't actually know what it is.

Thats because, like the guy you responded to said, he expirienced super saiyan god. He didnt experience both.

[Zamasu55]

We're in 2018 and people still didn't realize that the manga is a completely different thing and its power scale can't be used to explain the anime's errors or oversights.

[Bullza]

Thats because, like the guy you responded to said, he expirienced super saiyan god. He didnt experience both.

Someone on here said that was another Goku Xeno. Not the one from the Dark Empire Saga onward.

[PFM18]

We're in 2018 and people still didn't realize that the manga is a completely different thing and its power scale can't be used to explain the anime's errors or oversights.

You're right its power scale cannot be used to explain the anime.

Ok say I am just gonna come up with a power chain now that the series is over(for the anime):

Completed UI Goku(Enraged)>Limit Breaker Jiren>Completed UI Goku>Full-power Jiren>Belmod>Beerus>=3rd UI Omen>2nd UI Omen>SSJ2 Kefla>SSBE Vegeta>GoD Toppo>SSBKKx20 Goku>Anilaza>Koicherator>Super Speed Dyspo>Golden Freeza>Hit>Android 17>True Ultimate Gohan

and then everyone below that is kind of irrelevant.(I didn't include all the various forms and states for the characters.)

Maji Kayo could probably fit somewhere in there but I don't really know because he didn't really get that much action other than getting rekt by Jiren.

[Kenneth La Torre]

God toppo is definitely beyond kefla. His feats outstrip anything kefla had acconplished. A casual suppressed hakai warped the entire world of void. concidering the fact that vegeta and goku got HUGE gains of power from fighting jiren, yet vegeta in his “limit breaking power” (ssb evolution) was still confortably inferior to hakaishin toppo before he got a nakama boost.

[ankokudaishogun]

Apparently, Xeno Goku had experienced God Ki AND the events of DBGT, and thus is meant to be stronger than his GT counterpart.

I haven't played the games though so I don't know any specifics but Xeno Goku was never shown to become a Super Saiyan God or a Super Saiyan Blue in any of the anime game openings or manga chapters. Again from what I read, when he sees Super Saiyan Blue Goku he doesn't actually know what it is.

In DBH Ultimate MIssion X, Goku:Xeno states he went through the BoG events.
Various Goku:Xeno cards use the God Kamehameha mechanic.

Therefore some people decided Goku:Xeno must have God Ki.

Take it however you want.


About Ribrianne: it's obvious they made her different in the anime and in the manga.
In the anime, she's 100% a Magical Girl, has a power-up, a giant final attack form and gets defeated by 18's power of a type of love she didn't know. Everything Magical Girl-themed.
In the manga, she's just confidence-powered.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Super Saiyan Blue Goku is stated to rival the Gods, so he's comparable to them as in he's not far off from their full power as the definition would mean, not less than 1% of their strength.

Vegito's strength has no bearing on Beerus. They aren't stated to be equal or comparable.

Yes, yes they are. We have two sources comparing them both. The supreme kai in the manga and toyotaro in an interview.

Plus we know they are at less than one percent because of jiren. A guy who can blink away a spirit bomb more powerful than gokus ssb Kkx20 in 110 is definitly at bare minimum more than a hundred times more powerful than a regular ssb, and its likely that all hakaishins still posses more power than that IMMENSELY suppressed jiren.

Nowhere in any of those sources were the two stated to be comparable.

If Blue was less than 1% of the God's power, then Super Saiyan Blue Goku wouldn't have been stated to rival the Gods.

If Jiren can overwhelm someone whom is stated to rival the Gods before they multiply their power 20x on top of that, then it makes it obvious that Suppressed Jiren is stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

[Bullza]

In DBH Ultimate MIssion X, Goku:Xeno states he went through the BoG events.
Various Goku:Xeno cards use the God Kamehameha mechanic.

Therefore some people decided Goku:Xeno must have God Ki.

Take it however you want.

Is that meant to be the same Goku from the Dark Empire and Prison Planet Sagas though?

In the Super Dragon Ball Heroes manga, that Goku though had nothing to do with God Ki.

Maybe the anime will explain it at the time.

[PFM18]

Super Saiyan Blue Goku is stated to rival the Gods, so he's comparable to them as in he's not far off from their full power as the definition would mean, not less than 1% of their strength.

Vegito's strength has no bearing on Beerus. They aren't stated to be equal or comparable.

Yes, yes they are. We have two sources comparing them both. The supreme kai in the manga and toyotaro in an interview.

Plus we know they are at less than one percent because of jiren. A guy who can blink away a spirit bomb more powerful than gokus ssb Kkx20 in 110 is definitly at bare minimum more than a hundred times more powerful than a regular ssb, and its likely that all hakaishins still posses more power than that IMMENSELY suppressed jiren.

Nowhere in any of those sources were the two stated to be comparable.

If Blue was less than 1% of the God's power, then Super Saiyan Blue Goku wouldn't have been stated to rival the Gods.

If Jiren can overwhelm someone whom is stated to rival the Gods before they multiply their power 20x on top of that, then it makes it obvious that Suppressed Jiren is stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

Hes more than 1% but not by much. Based om the SSBKKX20, the spirit bomb, and the Kefla situation then he is AT MOST 2% of Beerus in his SSB state. I'd say like 1.5% ish.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Yes, yes they are. We have two sources comparing them both. The supreme kai in the manga and toyotaro in an interview.

Plus we know they are at less than one percent because of jiren. A guy who can blink away a spirit bomb more powerful than gokus ssb Kkx20 in 110 is definitly at bare minimum more than a hundred times more powerful than a regular ssb, and its likely that all hakaishins still posses more power than that IMMENSELY suppressed jiren.

Nowhere in any of those sources were the two stated to be comparable.

If Blue was less than 1% of the God's power, then Super Saiyan Blue Goku wouldn't have been stated to rival the Gods.

If Jiren can overwhelm someone whom is stated to rival the Gods before they multiply their power 20x on top of that, then it makes it obvious that Suppressed Jiren is stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

Hes more than 1% but not by much. Based om the SSBKKX20, the spirit bomb, and the Kefla situation then he is AT MOST 2% of Beerus in his SSB state. I'd say like 1.5% ish.

None of those have anything to do with the Gods of Destruction.

He's stated to rival the Gods in the anime and in the manga is stated to be strong enough to be a God candidate. Perfect Blue in the manga is equivalent to Blue in the anime and it was so strong that Beerus had to get serious in order to beat it. He isn't anywhere near powerful enough to toy with Blue.

Rival- compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to.

So Goku in Blue is stated to be comparable to the Gods in power so no it isn't 1%. It's more like 80% or more, hence being comparable. Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% so I don't know where 1% is even coming from. It has no basis in the story.

[PFM18]

Nowhere in any of those sources were the two stated to be comparable.

If Blue was less than 1% of the God's power, then Super Saiyan Blue Goku wouldn't have been stated to rival the Gods.

If Jiren can overwhelm someone whom is stated to rival the Gods before they multiply their power 20x on top of that, then it makes it obvious that Suppressed Jiren is stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

Hes more than 1% but not by much. Based om the SSBKKX20, the spirit bomb, and the Kefla situation then he is AT MOST 2% of Beerus in his SSB state. I'd say like 1.5% ish.

None of those have anything to do with the Gods of Destruction.

He's stated to rival the Gods in the anime and in the manga is stated to be strong enough to be a God candidate. Perfect Blue in the manga is equivalent to Blue in the anime and it was so strong that Beerus had to get serious in order to beat it. He isn't anywhere near powerful enough to toy with Blue.

Rival- compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to.

So Goku in Blue is stated to be comparable to the Gods in power so no it isn't 1%. It's more like 80% or more, hence being comparable. Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% so I don't know where 1% is even coming from. It has no basis in the story.

It has tons of basis in the story. We are essentially told that Kefla SSJ is atleast 20x stronger than SSB, then she goes SSJ2 and goku beats her. Hence the 2nd UI Omen must be atleast 40x stronger than SSB. The 3rd UI Omen is stronger than that and probably 50-60x stronger than SSB. (This fits since SSBE Vegeta after his rage boost must be about 30x SSB and jiren destroyed him but was initially losing to the 3rd UI Omen.) Since the comic magazine said that 3rd Omen ~ Beerus, and this fits because upon achieving completed UI Goku obviously surpassed Beerus hence all the Gods being amazed and standing up and Goku beating jiren with it. For Beerus to be about equal to the 3rd UI Omen, which was stated in supplementary material and implied in the anime, then SSB HAS TO BE 1-2% of Beerus for that to fit. (Probably closer to 2% than 1%.)

If SSB was 80% of Beerus like you suggest then the GoDs would be irrelevant in strength. SSB Kaioken or Toppo or SSBE Vegeta would all be well above Beerus.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Hes more than 1% but not by much. Based om the SSBKKX20, the spirit bomb, and the Kefla situation then he is AT MOST 2% of Beerus in his SSB state. I'd say like 1.5% ish.

None of those have anything to do with the Gods of Destruction.

He's stated to rival the Gods in the anime and in the manga is stated to be strong enough to be a God candidate. Perfect Blue in the manga is equivalent to Blue in the anime and it was so strong that Beerus had to get serious in order to beat it. He isn't anywhere near powerful enough to toy with Blue.

Rival- compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to.

So Goku in Blue is stated to be comparable to the Gods in power so no it isn't 1%. It's more like 80% or more, hence being comparable. Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% so I don't know where 1% is even coming from. It has no basis in the story.

It has tons of basis in the story. We are essentially told that Kefla SSJ is atleast 20x stronger than SSB, then she goes SSJ2 and goku beats her. Hence the 2nd UI Omen must be atleast 40x stronger than SSB. The 3rd UI Omen is stronger than that and probably 50-60x stronger than SSB. (This fits since SSBE Vegeta after his rage boost must be about 30x SSB and jiren destroyed him but was initially losing to the 3rd UI Omen.) Since the comic magazine said that 3rd Omen ~ Beerus, and this fits because upon achieving completed UI Goku obviously surpassed Beerus hence all the Gods being amazed and standing up and Goku beating jiren with it. For Beerus to be about equal to the 3rd UI Omen, which was stated in supplementary material and implied in the anime, then SSB HAS TO BE 1-2% of Beerus for that to fit. (Probably closer to 2% than 1%.)

If SSB was 80% of Beerus like you suggest then the GoDs would be irrelevant in strength. SSB Kaioken or Toppo or SSBE Vegeta would all be well above Beerus.

If what you're saying was true then you would be able to reference an event or post a statement supporting what you're claiming. But that isn't the case. This is just guesswork on you're part, so there's no need to refute it.

You're entire argument is invalidated by 2 simple statements. Beerus needed 10% against Vegeta and Super Saiyan Blue Goku rivals the Gods. Rival=comparable and 1% isn't comparable. So if you can't make it work that's you're problem since the story portrays a clear narrative. The answer isn't changing what's explicitly stated.

Nowhere is it stated that Beerus is equal to Ultra Instinct Goku in any capacity. I already know about the magazine being referenced. The word "equal" isn't in there.

There's no reason that Toppo would have to be above Beerus. He isn't any different from a God of Destruction though so he's on the same tier of power as the rest of them. Goku and Vegeta are equals and Vegeta destroyed Toppo combat wise but needed Final Explosion to overcome the Destruction Energy. No reason he wouldn't do the same to Beerus.
Goku likely loses in Vegeta's situation due to having nothing strong enough to overcome Destruction Energy like Vegeta. I don't know what the point is in counting Goku's Kaioken but blatantly ignoring the God's techniques. The Destruction Energy is part of a God of Destruction's power and Goku can't overcome it without Ultra Instinct.

[PFM18]

None of those have anything to do with the Gods of Destruction.

He's stated to rival the Gods in the anime and in the manga is stated to be strong enough to be a God candidate. Perfect Blue in the manga is equivalent to Blue in the anime and it was so strong that Beerus had to get serious in order to beat it. He isn't anywhere near powerful enough to toy with Blue.

Rival- compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to.

So Goku in Blue is stated to be comparable to the Gods in power so no it isn't 1%. It's more like 80% or more, hence being comparable. Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% so I don't know where 1% is even coming from. It has no basis in the story.

It has tons of basis in the story. We are essentially told that Kefla SSJ is atleast 20x stronger than SSB, then she goes SSJ2 and goku beats her. Hence the 2nd UI Omen must be atleast 40x stronger than SSB. The 3rd UI Omen is stronger than that and probably 50-60x stronger than SSB. (This fits since SSBE Vegeta after his rage boost must be about 30x SSB and jiren destroyed him but was initially losing to the 3rd UI Omen.) Since the comic magazine said that 3rd Omen ~ Beerus, and this fits because upon achieving completed UI Goku obviously surpassed Beerus hence all the Gods being amazed and standing up and Goku beating jiren with it. For Beerus to be about equal to the 3rd UI Omen, which was stated in supplementary material and implied in the anime, then SSB HAS TO BE 1-2% of Beerus for that to fit. (Probably closer to 2% than 1%.)

If SSB was 80% of Beerus like you suggest then the GoDs would be irrelevant in strength. SSB Kaioken or Toppo or SSBE Vegeta would all be well above Beerus.

If what you're saying was true then you would be able to reference an event or post a statement supporting what you're claiming. But that isn't the case. This is just guesswork on you're part, so there's no need to refute it.

You're entire argument is invalidated by 2 simple statements. Beerus needed 10% against Vegeta and Super Saiyan Blue Goku rivals the Gods. Rival=comparable and 1% isn't comparable. So if you can't make it work that's you're problem since the story portrays a clear narrative. The answer isn't changing what's explicitly stated.

Nowhere is it stated that Beerus is equal to Ultra Instinct Goku in any capacity. I already know about the magazine being referenced. The word "equal" isn't in there.

There's no reason that Toppo would have to be above Beerus. He isn't any different from a God of Destruction though so he's on the same tier of power as the rest of them. Goku and Vegeta are equals and Vegeta destroyed Toppo combat wise but needed Final Explosion to overcome the Destruction Energy. No reason he wouldn't do the same to Beerus.
Goku likely loses in Vegeta's situation due to having nothing strong enough to overcome Destruction Energy like Vegeta. I don't know what the point is in counting Goku's Kaioken but blatantly ignoring the God's techniques. The Destruction Energy is part of a God of Destruction's power and Goku can't overcome it without Ultra Instinct.

Toppo was stronger than the initial SSBE Vegeta and so he was stronger than SSBKKx20, and SSBE Vegeta got a power up and was smacking around Toppo. If Goku was 80% of Beerus in SSB, then SSBE Vegeta, Toppo, SSBKKx20 Vegeta, Koichirator, Anilaza, and Kefla would ALL be stronger than Beerus by a significant amount. This makes no sense.

Beerus was only surpassed By Jiren and UI Goku that was made very clear within ep 129 and 130. For the Spirit Bomb to rival SSBKK20, then somebody who doublles that power comes along, and still loses, then Goku is magnitudes 40+ times stronger than this power that is supposedly 80% of Beerus. If Goku was that close to Beerus then the comment made in the ROF movie about if Goku and Vegeta worked together they could beat Beerus, wouldn't have been taken out. That was taken out because that was no longer the case.

Even the phrase "rivals" does not definitively make somebody really that close in this context. Being even as much as a tiny fraction of a GoD is a big deal because they are so many magnitudes stronger than a normal mortal. Look at Majin Buu. He was supposed to be this terrifying mortal with all this power, but Beerus makes him look like an ant. It is surprising for a mortal to be even remotely close or to be able to use God Ki, that was the point of this quote you are referencing.

You are putting far too much stock into this 10% Vegeta comment. Beerus admitted to lying about using 100% of his power against Goku, what makes you think he isn't also lying here?