"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?

Hasn't this been going on since he started ? there have been multiple pictures showing things taken from Toriyama's work.

[PsionicWarrior]

[spoiler]

Wow, a throwaway promotional image that has no bearing on the actual content of the chapter is similar to a random Captain America page. Such big deal. Much worries. Wow.

If Nick Simmons didn't get sued for tracing over Kubo's work, this is fine. Especially since this is just a promo image and comic book artists reference/copy "iconic" poses for variant covers literally every month of every year.

This is a non-issue.

Someone should hook Toyotaro up with Lee Bermejo's art though. If you're gonna reference comic book artists, reference one of the best.

Are you seriously saying it's okay to trace because the image isn't from the comic itself? Tracing is tracing, and while I don't think Toyotaro should get sued over this, it's absolutely a terrible and lazy practice. Also, there's a pretty big difference between someone paying homage to the iconic cover of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 and taking a pose from a random panel of a random Captain America comic.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Because apparently you can't read, once again, I post the properly aligned image.

I can’t see the trace in that one , that’s why I I’m saying what I’m saying , call me whatever , try to make fun of me if that makes you happy

[/spoiler]

You can't see it because it's not there mate lol

Here is the proper image:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Kinda odd people erased some parts to make it look like it's traced wtf is this even lol
Obviously a reference though, but doesn't look like tracing to me lol

[Miracles]

It was kind of cunning of Universe 4 to dupe U7 with a too small to see opponent in Damon after sending the invisible Gamisaras after them.
Making them assume they were facing another invisible enemy. This strategy was Piccolo's downfall as he assumed it was another invisible enemy not a small one so he wouldn't try to listen out for it.

BTW, with all the complaining about how 17 got so strong, no one mentioned how he was asked what type of training he did and he responds with protecting his island?
The net was already mad that they didn't get an explanation how he got so strong and they didn't want to hear about the poacher duty being the reason yet officially got it anyway.

[YamiGoku]

[spoiler]

Are you seriously saying it's okay to trace because the image isn't from the comic itself? Tracing is tracing, and while I don't think Toyotaro should get sued over this, it's absolutely a terrible and lazy practice. Also, there's a pretty big difference between someone paying homage to the iconic cover of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 and taking a pose from a random panel of a random Captain America comic.


Because apparently you can't read, once again, I post the properly aligned image.

I can’t see the trace in that one , that’s why I I’m saying what I’m saying , call me whatever , try to make fun of me if that makes you happy

[/spoiler]

You can't see it because it's not there mate lol

Here is the proper image:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Kinda odd people erased some parts to make it look like it's traced wtf is this even lol
Obviously a reference though, but doesn't look like tracing to me lol

Did you watched the Ajay video? he shows how toyo traced the image and it's pretty obvious he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpTStL ... u.be&t=363

[Dbzfan94]

How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?

Hasn't this been going on since he started ? there have been multiple pictures showing things taken from Toriyama's work.

Exactly. I've never been a fan of his art save for a select few panels and I thought this was known for a while now. Why is suddenly such new information?

[prince212]

[spoiler]

I can’t see the trace in that one , that’s why I I’m saying what I’m saying , call me whatever , try to make fun of me if that makes you happy

[/spoiler]

You can't see it because it's not there mate lol

Here is the proper image:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Kinda odd people erased some parts to make it look like it's traced wtf is this even lol
Obviously a reference though, but doesn't look like tracing to me lol

Did you watched the Ajay video? he shows how toyo traced the image and it's pretty obvious he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpTStL ... u.be&t=363

I watched it , and still you can’t say that 100% for sure . I myself can draw exactly that hand without trace and then overlap that one with the capitan america and look the same , I can’t believe people that call themselfs professional can make such and statement .
You will never know 100% sure the trace thing , it’s imposible to know for sure .
And sorry for talking about this again , I received 2 notifications about this matter that I don’t care that much .

[prince212]

BTW, with all the complaining about how 17 got so strong, no one mentioned how he was asked what type of training he did and he responds with protecting his island?
:

btw right before that question it was a nice gag when 17 ask piccolo: what did you say ?

[prince212]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

You can't see it because it's not there mate lol

Here is the proper image:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Kinda odd people erased some parts to make it look like it's traced wtf is this even lol
Obviously a reference though, but doesn't look like tracing to me lol

Did you watched the Ajay video? he shows how toyo traced the image and it's pretty obvious he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpTStL ... u.be&t=363

I watched it , and still you can’t say that 100% for sure . I myself can draw exactly that hand without trace and then overlap that one with the capitan america and look the same , I can’t believe people that call themselfs professional can make such an statement .
You will never know 100% sure the trace thing , it’s imposible to know for sure .
And sorry for talking about this again , I received 2 notifications about this matter that I don’t care that much .

[sintzu]

I thought this was known for a while now. Why is suddenly such new information?

It's a slow news week.

[Saiga]

How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?

Hasn't this been going on since he started ? there have been multiple pictures showing things taken from Toriyama's work.

Nope. Previous copied poses weren't directly traced.

[PsionicWarrior]

Did you watched the Ajay video? he shows how toyo traced the image and it's pretty obvious he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpTStL ... u.be&t=363

Whenever he makes it fit in some place it doesn't fit in another, if it were traced he could have it fit it completely lol
Unless I missed something Toto didn't make any official statement about this so I find it fair to give him the benefit of doubt before condemning lol

[Ajay]

Whenever he makes it fit in some place it doesn't fit in another, if it were traced he could have it fit it completely lol
Unless I missed something Toto didn't make any official statement about this so I find it fair to give him the benefit of doubt before condemning lol

Please actually pay attention to what's being said in the video. Digital tools exist, rotating exists. I explain very clearly what he did. No, he did not trace the image as it exists on the page. Did he chop it up and then trace that? Absolutely. That's still not okay.

[Michsi]

The palm kind of makes that obvious.

Has anything been said since this came out or will they just wait until this all blows over. The only large scandal in this industry of this kind I remember is from D-Grayman and the artist sort of fell off the grid for a while after that (though I think it was for health related reasons?).

[Ajay]

The palm kind of makes that obvious.

Has anything been said since this came out or will they just wait until this all blows over. The only large scandal in this industry of this kind I remember is from D-Grayman and the artist sort of fell off the grid for a while after that (though I think it was for health related reasons?).

Nothing yet. Dexter Soy, the original Captain America artist, is pretty adamant that it's traced. He pointed out today that Toyotaro recently followed him (or already follows him?), so I don't know if that's a precursor to something.

[Michsi]

The palm kind of makes that obvious.

Has anything been said since this came out or will they just wait until this all blows over. The only large scandal in this industry of this kind I remember is from D-Grayman and the artist sort of fell off the grid for a while after that (though I think it was for health related reasons?).

Nothing yet. Dexter Soy, the original Captain America artist, is pretty adamant that it's traced. He pointed out today that Toyotaro recently followed him (or already follows him?), so I don't know if that's a precursor to something.

Thanks for the info.

Despite being ardently against this practice, I really hope this won't result in a law suit or something like that. The franchise really doesn't need another thing like this.

But now that I think about it, there was another case way more serious than that D-Grayman example I mentioned and I can't believe I forgot about. It was when Gene Simon's son made a comic and the artist traced numerous images from the Bleach manga. Now that was a scandal back in the day. Kubo himsef bad been pretty chill about it, and I don't remember if there were any legal repercussions.

[IM21]

The palm kind of makes that obvious.

Has anything been said since this came out or will they just wait until this all blows over. The only large scandal in this industry of this kind I remember is from D-Grayman and the artist sort of fell off the grid for a while after that (though I think it was for health related reasons?).

Nothing yet. Dexter Soy, the original Captain America artist, is pretty adamant that it's traced. He pointed out today that Toyotaro recently followed him (or already follows him?), so I don't know if that's a precursor to something.

Thanks for the info.

Despite being ardently against this practice, I really hope this won't result in a law suit or something like that. The franchise really doesn't need another thing like this.

But now that I think about it, there was another case way more serious than that D-Grayman example I mentioned and I can't believe I forgot about. It was when Gene Simon's son made a comic and the artist traced numerous images from the Bleach manga. Now that was a scandal back in the day. Kubo himsef bad been pretty chill about it, and I don't remember if there were any legal repercussions.

can someone really be sued for tracing for a sketch? The final picture that is on the Vjump cover doesn't look exactly like the sketch. Toyotaro messed up when he posted the sketch and then messed up again when he deleted it. So of course he looks guilty.

[Michsi]

Nothing yet. Dexter Soy, the original Captain America artist, is pretty adamant that it's traced. He pointed out today that Toyotaro recently followed him (or already follows him?), so I don't know if that's a precursor to something.

Thanks for the info.

Despite being ardently against this practice, I really hope this won't result in a law suit or something like that. The franchise really doesn't need another thing like this.

But now that I think about it, there was another case way more serious than that D-Grayman example I mentioned and I can't believe I forgot about. It was when Gene Simon's son made a comic and the artist traced numerous images from the Bleach manga. Now that was a scandal back in the day. Kubo himsef bad been pretty chill about it, and I don't remember if there were any legal repercussions.

can someone really be sued for tracing for a sketch? The final picture that is on the Vjump cover doesn't look exactly like the sketch. Toyotaro messed up when he posted the sketch and then messed up again when he deleted it. So of course he looks guilty.

I image it is possible, and that's not just a sketch. The Vjump cover looks different because most of it is hidden behind walls of text, but the work handed in was based on that sketch and that sketch seems to have been traced. Therein lies the problem.

As for this not being a big deal or deserving this amount of criticism - artists can sometimes agonize over a simple drawing for days, if not weeks, drawing and redrawing to get it right. This pose in particular seems like something that requires a fair amount effort and skill since it's from such unconventional angle, so to have someone just reaping the benefits of another fellow artist's work is less than commendable.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Why are you guys still talking about the Toyotaro issue? Ajay's video covered everything perfectly, I'm amazed at how people can deny obvious things even when they're exposed right in their face.

[shadowfox87]

Nothing yet. Dexter Soy, the original Captain America artist, is pretty adamant that it's traced. He pointed out today that Toyotaro recently followed him (or already follows him?), so I don't know if that's a precursor to something.

I was following Dexter Soy and Toyotaro for a while, so I know for a fact that Toyotaro was following him long before all of this fiasco. Dexter Soy only recently noticed that he's being followed. He's tweeted your video and seems to still not be over it as he tweeted again just this morning, so it's pretty clear what his opinion is on the matter - he's not happy about it.

Despite being ardently against this practice, I really hope this won't result in a law suit or something like that. The franchise really doesn't need another thing like this.

Toyotaro traced. There's no doubt about that. Tracing can be viewed by professional artists as a lack of artistic integrity. However, the legal implications for that are unclear. There have been several cases of tracing art, etc. in the past. If it can be argued that it is "transformative", then even if he makes profit from it, it is considered fair use.

A case of where a t-shirt was made using a photo of a politician. The photo was altered a lot and then imprinted on t-shirts and sold. This alteration of the photo was considered to be "transformative". If a derivative work is transformative, then it is considered "fair use". https://fairuse.stanford.edu/2014/12/22 ... shire-cat/

One of the arguments against this is that people think that fair use does not apply when profit is being made. This is not true either. Fair use got retconned after the Campbell case: https://fairuse.stanford.edu/case/campb ... music-inc/

Other cases:
https://99designs.ca/blog/tips/5-famous ... ent-cases/

[prince212]

Why are you guys still talking about the Toyotaro issue? Ajay's video covered everything perfectly, I'm amazed at how people can deny obvious things even when they're exposed right in their face.

Obvious thing , its a copy of pose , hand and upper part volume.
Unknown if it’s trace , because for example you can draw 2 triangles in separate papers and overlap them being the same .
It’s just a matter of terminology or just say looks like ...
Anyway looks trace and the video has sense , but there’s not enough evidence to assure that sentence.
Only a witness or a film camera can close this case , and I don’t care , just saying , Thank god there’s not death penalty, because there’s a slight chance of false accusations
It’s way more important to reduce some perspective - sizing mistakes that the manga suffers once in a while.
I consider all dragon ball drawings not made by A.T copies , and that’s ok . May be there’s artists that can copy dragon ball better than toyo , but A.T supervise toyo , and that makes his product more dragon ball than the rest I.m.o.