Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta implied he increased in strength 10-fold.

Where did you get this from?

[PFM18]

Vegeta implied he increased in strength 10-fold.

Where did you get this from?

Goku told Vegeta about what had happened when he was in the time chamber. Then Goku says Vegeta would have had to have gotten 10x stronger if he would be able to beat what cell is now or someting to that affect. Then Vegeta laughs obviously implying he is not worried about it

[miguelnuva1]

Vegeta implied he increased in strength 10-fold.

Where did you get this from?

Goku told Vegeta about what had happened when he was in the time chamber. Then Goku says Vegeta would have had to have gotten 10x stronger if he would be able to beat what cell is now or someting to that affect. Then Vegeta laughs obviously implying he is not worried about it

I remember Goku saying that doubling his power wouldn't do anything and then Vegeta says what if it tripled.

[PFM18]

Where did you get this from?

Goku told Vegeta about what had happened when he was in the time chamber. Then Goku says Vegeta would have had to have gotten 10x stronger if he would be able to beat what cell is now or someting to that affect. Then Vegeta laughs obviously implying he is not worried about it

I remember Goku saying that doubling his power wouldn't do anything and then Vegeta says what if it tripled.

Honestly I was going off somebody else on here saying that the comment was about ten-fold but there could be some misinformation floating around here

[Hugo Boss]

Goku told Vegeta about what had happened when he was in the time chamber. Then Goku says Vegeta would have had to have gotten 10x stronger if he would be able to beat what cell is now or someting to that affect. Then Vegeta laughs obviously implying he is not worried about it

I remember Goku saying that doubling his power wouldn't do anything and then Vegeta says what if it tripled.

Honestly I was going off somebody else on here saying that the comment was about ten-fold but there could be some misinformation floating around here

They get out of the time chamber at Chapter #375, but nothing is said about Vegeta multiplying his power.

[PFM18]

Alright that is fine. My numbers work better that way anyway lol.

But yeah these are rhe numbers I have as of now

Future Trunks Super Saiyan: 180 Million
Post Namek Goku Super Saiyan: 182 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 225 Million
Android 18: 338 Million
Android 17: 364 Million
Imperfect Cell(pre-absorption): 292 Million
Super Namekian Piccolo: 372 Million
Android 16: 510 Million
Imperfect Cell(post-absorption): 515 Million
Semi-perfect Cell: 880 Million
Super Vegeta: 1584 Million
Super Trunks: 1505 Million
Perfect form Cell(Suppressed): 2217 Million
Ultra Trunks: 2257 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 3960 Million
Full-Powered Perfect form Cell: 5939 Million
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 4356 Million
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 8712 Million
Super Perfect Cell: 8275 Million
Super Saiyan Trunks(Cell games): 2257 Million
Super Saiyan Vegeta(Cell games): 2376 Million
Piccolo Cell Games: 1869 Million

This way Gohan is still only at 87M in base and Buu saga Goku could still be significantly stronger but still weaker than 100% Freeza.

[DanielSSJ]

They get out of the time chamber at Chapter #375, but nothing is said about Vegeta multiplying his power.

The line everyone is talking about is only in the dubbed version. In the original, Goku just calls Second Form Cell a "terrible monster."

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah it's never stated how many times Cell is stronger than the Pre Rosat Super Saiyans. All Goku tells to Vegeta after he exits the Rosat is this:
Chapter: 375 (DBZ 181), P2.6
Goku: “I just got a look at Cell after he absorbed No.17 and evolved. He’s a terrible monster.”

I personally think he got about 15x stronger.

[Chickenchaser]

How strong is Goku on tournament of power?

[SonofthePrince]

I know, this has been done like a million times already, but I want to give it a shot. So here's my list of power levels (keep in mind most of these numbers are a little rounded and are obviously not official)

Spoiler:

Mecha Freeza: 165 million
King Cold: 180 million
Trunks: 4.5 million
SSJ Trunks: 225 million
Goku: 5 million
SSJ Goku: 250 million

People really like to downplay King Cold for some reason, I'm not sure why. Freeza bows down to him for a reason guys, not just because their family. You really think Freeza would care about such a thing?

Spoiler:

{Future Timeline}
Vegeta: 10 million
SSJ Vegeta: 500 million
Piccolo: 170 million
Gohan: 3.6 million
Krillin: 300 thousand
Tien: 204 thousand
Yamcha: 165 thousand
Chiaotzu: 100 thousand

Android 18: 1.1 billion
Android 17: 1.32 billion

Goku isn't in this because, well, he's dead. But his power level prior to his death (six months before the androids appear if I remember correctly) would probably be at 9.5 million. I assumed Gohan would be above Namek saga Goku by this point, but I don't wnat to give him too much credit, hence why he's only about 20% stronger. The earthlings' power levels are based off a headcanon of mine that all creatures can increase their power level by 30-50% within a year. Obviously, this doesn't always apply because of plot, but this seems to be true under normal circumstances. Piccolo's power level is based off of a line from the manga, where Krillin states that Piccolo has reached SSJ levels of power, which can be from 150 mil and above. I assumed his alternate timeline counterpart can't be much weaker than that, hence 170 million.

{Main timeline}
Goku: 16.5 million
Gohan: 5 million
Piccolo: 297 million
Krillin: 430 thousand
Tien: 320 thousand
Yamcha: 250 thousand

Android 19: 165 million
Dr. Gero: 180 million

It doesn't seem as if Gero knew anything Namek Saga related, so he probably thought that at most Goku would be able to push himself to a Kaioken x10. Unbeknownst to him, Goku had been training even harder than before AND had aquired Super Saiyan.

SSJ Goku: 825 million
[ill] SSJ Goku: 412 million
[drained] SSJ Goku: 200 million
[energy absorbed] Android 19: 377 million

Piccolo stated that Goku should've been MUCH stronger than he was whilst fighting Android 19, so I decided to cut his strength by half. The Kamehameha not only further drained Goku, but added onto 19's reserves.

Vegeta: 18 million
SSJ Vegeta: 900 million
[drained] SSJ Vegeta: 150 million

The reason why Vegeta's power is low after having his energy drained is because when Vegeta challenged Gero, Gero ran away because he was afraid of what Vegeta could do, but what he didn't know was that Vegeta wasn't actually bluffing, and that he probably could've easily defeated him, at least from what Piccolo said in the manga. Piccolo also mentioned that Vegeta was probably stronger than Goku at his peak strength.

Trunks: 15 million
SSJ Trunks: 750 million

Android 18: 1.1 billion
Android 17: 1.32 billion

SInce Gero had no idea that the Z-fighters would be so powerful, he had no reason to increase 17 & 18's battle power. 18 even admited she didn't expect Vegeta to be so powerful, as did 17 when he concluded that Vegeta was stronger than the data suggested.

Spoiler:

Kami: 300
[post-fusion] Piccolo: 1.35 billion
[w/o cape and turban] Piccolo: 1.485 billion

The 'El Manga Legendario' guidebook states that Namekian fusion results in a 5 times boost. I assumed that first Kami's power was absorbed into Piccolo, before being multiplied by five. I know you're all going to look down on me because I used that guide, but keep in mind that guidebook is official. It was lisenced by the same people who lisenced the Daizenshuu. So far, nothing in that guidebook contradicts the manga, so I am going to use it.

Cell: 2.42 billion
Android 16: 2.42 billion
[Light Grenade] Piccolo: 1.93 billion

Cell was so much more powerful than Piccolo or 17, that even Piccolo's ultimate last resort couldn't put a dent in him. So, I made him as strong as 17 & 18 combined.

Semi-Perfect Cell: 3.74 billion
SSJ Vegeta: 3.6 billion
ASSJ Vegeta: 5.4 billion
SSJ Trunks: 3.3 billion
ASSJ Trunks: 4.95 billion

Semi-Perfect Cell's power level is literally his previous level + Android 17. When Vegeta powered up to his SSJ maximum against Cell, Cell wasn't at all concerned, not until Vegeta further powered up to his ASSJ, which is 50% stronger than SSJ. After this, Vegeta began curbstomping Cell, implying that either Vegeta or Trunks could've taken on Cell as regular SSJs.

Perfect Cell: 4.84 billion and up
[Final Flash] ASSJ Vegeta: 7.3 billion

When Cell absorbed 18, he didn't just add her power onto his own, his power skyrocketed. Sadly, not even the powerful Final Flash had the power to wipe out Cell completely.

USSJ Trunks: 49.5 billion

Okay, so 'El Manga Legendario' states that USSJ is 10 times the previous form, that form being ASSJ. So far, nothing in the manga contradicts that. In fact, when Trunks first powered up, Cell gave a similar reaction to when Gohan became SSJ2. The only difference being that while Gohan didn't lose any agilty (movement speed), Trunks did. He gained ten times his pevious strength, but lost ten times his previous movemet speed, so slow that his SSJ self could speed blitz him.

resting FPSSJ Goku: 1.5 billion
resting FPSSJ Gohan: 1.65 billion

By remaining transformed at all times, Goku and Gohan mastered SSJ. But through meditating, and beginning at the basics and slowly building their way up, their bodies became accustomed to the SSJ energy, going from the standard 50x multiplier, to 750x base form. However, whenever they're not fighting, they remain at a base SSJ level.

50% FPSSJ Goku: 11.25 billion.

Right here, everyone at the Lookout was shocked that Goku had become so strong in less than year, easily over twice as powerful as ASSJ Vegeta.

Spoiler:

FPSSJ Goku: 22.5 billion
Perfect Cell: 24.75 billion and up
FPSSJ Gohan: 24.75 billion

Perfect Cell remained at a level where he'd be able to evenly fight Goku, while still being above him. He didn't raise his power any further against Gohan because of how much he underestimated him. And while equal, Gohan remained mostly on the defensive side, which is why he appeared to be losing.

Cell Jrs: 15 billion each.
Piccolo: 7.43 billion
Vegeta: 180 million
ISSJ Vegeta: 13.5 billion
Trunks: 165 million
ISSJ Trunks: 12.375 billion

'ISSJ' is an acronym for 'Improved Super Saiyan'. When Trunks and Vegeta re-entered the ROSAT, they attempted to mimick Goku and Gohan's attempts at mastering the form, but only came out partially successful, as neither of them could figure out how to completely master the transformation in time. So Improved Super Saiyan is only a 75x increase, similar to ASSJ but controlled and nearly mastered. And of course lack of agression and excessive loss of stamina.

SSJ2 Gohan: 49.5 billion
[full power] Perfect Cell: 32.2 billion
[Giant] Perfect Cell: 161 billion
Super Perfect Cell: 41.9 billion

Even at full power, Cell was no match for the might of the newly awakened SSJ2 Gohan. Even as a giant, his efforts were wasted before ultimately falling to a kick in the stomach, reverting back to his previous form, Semi-Perfect Cell. After blowing himself up and regenerating however, his power skyrocketed even further, nearly matching Gohan in strength. He even managed to heavily injure Gohan, and nearly suceeded in blowing him away in a Kamehameha. But thanks to Goku's encouraging words and Vegeta's distraction, Gohan finally managed to put an end to Cell, concluding the Cell Games.

So this is only up until the Cell Saga, I'll do the Buu Saga sometime later.

[jeffbr92]

How strong is Goku on tournament of power?

It depends of the episode.

[Kaboom]

I know, this has been done like a million times already, but I want to give it a shot. So here's my list of power levels (keep in mind most of these numbers are a little rounded and are obviously not official)

Moved and merged into the dedicated Fan-Made Power Levels thread, and formatted into Spoiler tags for readability.

I do really wish people would stop using bits from that stupid 'Legendario' guidebook, since it's pretty obviously stuff that the Spanish publishers just made up without origins in anything from Japanese material, and if nothing else it ends up clashing with newer material that *does* have direct Japanese origins (like the SEG boosts for SS2 and SS3, and Boo-era base Goku still being below Freeza). But as long as one doesn't get over-zealous about it, I guess it's fair game.

[SonofthePrince]

I know, this has been done like a million times already, but I want to give it a shot. So here's my list of power levels (keep in mind most of these numbers are a little rounded and are obviously not official)

Moved and merged into the dedicated Fan-Made Power Levels thread, and formatted into Spoiler tags for readability.

I do really wish people would stop using bits from that stupid 'Legendario' guidebook, since it's pretty obviously stuff that the Spanish publishers just made up without origins in anything from Japanese material, and if nothing else it ends up clashing with newer material that *does* have direct Japanese origins (like the SEG boosts for SS2 and SS3, and Boo-era base Goku still being below Freeza). But as long as one doesn't get over-zealous about it, I guess it's fair game.

I'm not sure what you mean by SEG, but it is rather impossible for base Goku to still be below Freeza. I know most of his strength comes from his transformations, but that BoG line was pretty much the ultimate plotholes of plotholes. And to be fair, this guide was made a long time ago, you can't really get mad at it if it starts clashing with the newer material.

[Kaboom]

I'm not sure what you mean by SEG...

"Super Exciting Guide(s)," a pair of Japanese guidebooks from Shueisha in 2009. The "Story Volume" one of the two had a good deal of battle power information, most notably revealing the 2x and 4x power boosts for Super Saiyan 2 and 3.

...but it is rather impossible for base Goku to still be below Freeza. I know most of his strength comes from his transformations, but that BoG line was pretty much the ultimate plotholes of plotholes.

It's really not impossible at all. Plenty of people who dabble in battle powers and make lists, myself included, have been making it work since long before Battle of Gods and its perfectly-reasonable-and-uncontradicted line from Beerus. It just requires letting go of some old preconceptions and jumped-to conclusions.

And to be fair, this guide was made a long time ago, you can't really get mad at it if it starts clashing with the newer material.

That's all the more reason, on top of being merely random embellishments from foreign publishers to begin with, why the 'Legendario' nonsense in question should just be ignored. It was stuff they just made up to begin with, and it should go without saying that newer official straight-from-Japan material should take precedence.

[SonofthePrince]

I'm not sure what you mean by SEG...

"Super Exciting Guide(s)," a pair of Japanese guidebooks from Shueisha in 2009. The "Story Volume" one of the two had a good deal of battle power information, most notably revealing the 2x and 4x power boosts for Super Saiyan 2 and 3.

...but it is rather impossible for base Goku to still be below Freeza. I know most of his strength comes from his transformations, but that BoG line was pretty much the ultimate plotholes of plotholes.

It's really not impossible at all. Plenty of people who dabble in battle powers and make lists, myself included, have been making it work since long before Battle of Gods and its perfectly-reasonable-and-uncontradicted line from Beerus. It just requires letting go of some old preconceptions and jumped-to conclusions.

And to be fair, this guide was made a long time ago, you can't really get mad at it if it starts clashing with the newer material.

That's all the more reason, on top of being merely random embellishments from foreign publishers to begin with, why the 'Legendario' nonsense in question should just be ignored. It was stuff they just made up to begin with, and it should go without saying that newer official straight-from-Japan material should take precedence.

Okay I see your point, but regardless, I think I still managed to make the list work. I even gave reasons as to why USSJ Trunks and SSJ2 Gohan might be equal in strength.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Okay I see your point, but regardless, I think I still managed to make the list work. I even gave reasons as to why USSJ Trunks and SSJ2 Gohan might be equal in strength.

SSJ Grade 3 Trunks is nowhere near FPSSJ Goku, let alone SSJ2 Gohan. Kuririn stated Goku is the biggest Ki he ever felt when Goku goes all out on Cell:
Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P7.1
Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”


As for your list, it's pretty solid overall. Though one thing that really bothers me (After the flawed SSJ Grade 3 being a 10x boost) is you having Piccolo's fusion with Kami as a 5x boost while it's implied by Guru to be a 2x boost:
Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

I'd also change your Android Arc gaps given how it's implied by Future 17's "Less than half" statement that the Android Arc SSJs top around 2x the Mecha Arc ones.

[SonofthePrince]

Okay I see your point, but regardless, I think I still managed to make the list work. I even gave reasons as to why USSJ Trunks and SSJ2 Gohan might be equal in strength.

SSJ Grade 3 Trunks is nowhere near FPSSJ Goku, let alone SSJ2 Gohan. Kuririn stated Goku is the biggest Ki he ever felt when Goku goes all out on Cell:
Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P7.1
Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”


As for your list, it's pretty solid overall. Though one thing that really bothers me (After the flawed SSJ Grade 3 being a 10x boost) is you having Piccolo's fusion with Kami as a 5x boost while it's implied by Guru to be a 2x boost:
Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

I'd also change your Android Arc gaps given how it's implied by Future 17's "Less than half" statement that the Android Arc SSJs top around 2x the Mecha Arc ones.

I'll give you this one but either way, it being either 2x or 10x doesn't change the outcome of USSJ Trunks vs Perfect Cell.

I don't know how you got a 2x boost out of Guru. If anything, Namekian fusion seems to be subjective to the fusees, but I just used what I could get from the 'Legendario' guidebook.

The Android Arc gaps still fits. Alternate Dr. Gero, even without the knowledge of SSJ, still roughly calculated their growth to where the androids could still curbstomp them. Present Gero wasn't aware of how much harder they'd train because of Trunks' warning.

[Chickenchaser]

[spoiler]

How strong is Goku on tournament of power?

It depends of the episode.

[/spoiler]

When Ultra instinct (Completed) Goku fought against Jiren?

[jeffbr92]

When Ultra instinct (Completed) Goku fought against Jiren?

Episode #130

[Gogeta Blue]

Behold! My Dead Men Battle Powers list
Saiyan Arc:
Part I:
Son Goku: 0
Raditz: 0
Farmer: 0
Part II:
Yamcha: 0
- Rogafufuken: 0
Chaozu: 0
Tenshinhan: 0
- Kikoho: 0
Piccolo: 0
- Makankosappo: 0
Namek Arc:
Kewi: 0
Dodoria: 0
Zarbon: 0
Appule: 0
Muri: 0
Cargo: 0
Rest of Namekians: 0
Ginyu Force Arc:
Gurd: 0
Jheese: 0
Recoom: 0
Butta: 0
Freeza Arc:
Guru: 0
Kuririn: 0
Dende: 0
Vegeta: 0
Mecha Freeza Arc:
Mecha Freeza: 0
Great King Cold: 0
Cyborgs Arc:
Dr. Gero: 0
Cyborg 19: 0
Cell Games Arc:
Android 16: 0
Son Goku: 0
- Mastered Super Saiyan: 0
Future Trunks: 0
- Super Saiyan: 0*50
- Super Saiyan G2: 0*75
Cell Jrs: 0
25th Tenkaichi Budokai Arc:
Yamu and Spopovich: 0 each
- Majin: 0 each
Kibito: 0
Pui Pui: 0
Yakon: 0
Majin Boo Arc:
Chi-Chi: 0
Videl: 0
Son Gohan: 0
- Mastered Super Saiyan: 0*50
- Super Saiyan 2: 0*100
- Ultimate: 0
Tenshinhan: 0
Yamcha: 0
Kuririn: 0
Chaozu: 0
Cyborg 17: 0
Goten: 0
- Super Saiyan: 0
Trunks: 0
- Super Saiyan: 0
Piccolo: 0
Rest of Earthlings: 0
Pure Boo: 0