I would like to ask about something pertaining to movie 8/10

[Gorrilian]

Broly has been one of the more...lets say 'controversial' characters in the Toei canon of the spectrum of DB/Z/GT characters. I know that his power is impossible to accurately measure, as Toei never seems to stay at the limits of what the characters can do when not adhering strictly to their portail in the manga ('Buuhan' nearly screaming reality apart, kid Goku dodging lightning, Vegeta destroying a planet with two fingers, Golden Oozaru Baby failing to destroy the earth in one blow, etc.), but I would like to know the intensions regarding the two movies.

Is it true that Gohan was stated to be a SSJ2 in one of the official descriptions for M10?

Was M10 released before or after Gohan was said to have weakened from a lack of training?

Was M8 released before or after Goku propose facilitating the the SSJ form?

Who came first, Broly or USSJ2 Trunks?

Also, was it ever clarified if the sun or the Kamehameha killed Broly?

[Gyt Kaliba]

I can't really answer these, but I can give my opinion on some of them.

As for official statements, I think Gohan was only Super Saiyan in movie 10, but since Toei is known for making it even harder to tell the difference between it and SS2, I'd say there's a good chance he was Super Saiyan 2 against Broly.

I think both the sun and the Kamehameha killed Broly. I mean, the sun is shown to have tremendous power even against planet-destroying people in DBZ a few times (in Movies anyway), so really either one could've killed him, so I'd say it's a combo of both.

[Gorrilian]

I can't really answer these, but I can give my opinion on some of them.

As for official statements, I think Gohan was only Super Saiyan in movie 10, but since Toei is known for making it even harder to tell the difference between it and SS2, I'd say there's a good chance he was Super Saiyan 2 against Broly.

I think both the sun and the Kamehameha killed Broly. I mean, the sun is shown to have tremendous power even against planet-destroying people in DBZ a few times (in Movies anyway), so really either one could've killed him, so I'd say it's a combo of both.

I know what you mean by the transformations, especially with the inconsistent animation and coloring. I used to think that Gohan being a SSJ2 was undeniable, basing my beliefs on the sharp detail of Gohan's hair, until I saw how they animated Goten and Trunks in M11. Even Broly's hair alternates between green and gold in M10.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

This was probably one of the most well written discussions on this very topic. See what you can take from it.

[Gorrilian]

That topics answers my questions, except the last one. If it was Gohan and Goten, then Broly is considerably weaker than what Cell would be in his canon. If it was the sun, then anyone who could lure/force him into a sufficiently intense field of heat could defeat him.

Also, I've heard that Broly's constant build up of ki was mentioned/stated in a description of M8, and I think it was on this forum. I remember Sparking Meteor had it mensioned, but did it have any written basis, perhaps even the daizenshuu?

[Duo]

In the English-speaking fan communities of the Dragonball universe, there are several misconceptions ranging from errors present in the FUNimation dub to factual contradictions in the Japanese Anime, along with various internet-spread misconceptions. Some of these misconceptions spawn from various takes on the Dragonball Z Movies, which count to 13. Commonly, the disagreement is over whether or not said movies fit into the main Dragonball Z storyline. Of course, most of them cannot do such, and among those that don't there are two movies which hold the greatest number of mysteries and confliction between fans.

It is my belief that I have found the answers to understanding these Movies and making the most sense their place in the overall Dragonball Z universe. While these movies are not capable of co-existing with the core Dragonball Z storyline, each one bases it's character designs and strength levels on a certain point in the story. You could say they "extract" the characters as they are at a certain point and place them in an alternate plot-line. For the sake of argument, let's say that the writers of the movies take the characters from 3 months before the Movie premiers in Japan. In the case of Movie 8, there are two viewpoints taken - before the warriors entered the Room of Spirit and Time, or after they exit it. This is usually abbreviated to "Pre-RoSaT" and "Post-RoSaT".

The reason for this is, of course, the fact that there are details about the characters that support both sides almost evenly. Son Goku and his child, Gohan, were both in a state of everlasting Super Saiyan after exiting the Chamber, but not so during the movie. On the other side of the coin, Trunks hair cut is the same as when he exited the Room of Spirit and Time. On top of that, the fact that Gohan can go Super Saiyan at all means he's been in the Room. The latter would also support the notion that Movie 8 occurred in the 9 days prior to the Cell Game. However, neither of these notions are true and present multiple conflicts within themselves. The idea that the movie has to be either "Pre-RoSaT" or "Post-RoSaT" is a misguided notion. The stretch of time in the series in which one character or another is in the Room of Spirit and Time lasts several months by the Japanese run of the Anime and the serialization of the Manga. To think the writers would wait to make sure everyone was out of the Chamber is, well, ridiculous.

When, exactly, would the characters have been "pulled" from then? Movie 8 was released in March of 1993. Three months before that would be December of 1992. The first episode that aired in that month was Episode 167, in which Cell announces the Cell Game. This is one episode before Goku and Gohan re-emerge from the Room of Spirit and Time. The Movie began production before Gohan and Goku had finished their training, and had certainly not yet shown what kind of power they had in this "full power" state. Would this not mean that the characters are based off of the period of time in which Trunks and Vegeta are fighting Cell? We actually see Goku and Gohan during this fight, training in the Room of Spirit and Time. In the Manga, the last time we see them training, Gohan has just had his hair cut and can turn Super Saiyan. His hair length is suspiciously similar to how it looks in Movie 8. His bangs are shorter than in the Cell Game and the back has little spiking. Without doubt, the length of Gohan's hair in Movie 8 is closer to when we see him in the Room of Spirit and Time then it is in the Cell Game.

"Mid-RoSaT". The characters were extracted from the point in time in which Goku and Gohan were still training in the Room of Spirit and Time. This would be about the point in which Goku shows his ability to tap into the 2nd and 3rd type Super Saiyan transformations. They've been training enough to increase their power hugely, but not yet begun the regimen to relax themselves while transformed and hold the state all the time. The way the battles play out in the movie enforce this, because if the movie was "Post-RoSaT", there would be a huge gap between every protagonist fighter, but they all seem to be on relatively equal footing. Also, if Gohan had completed his training, he would be on the tip of being able to go past the Super Saiyan. However, despite the circumstances and how dire they become, there is no such hint at this. If he was capable, Goku would have been pushing for that instead of the odd way he goes about besting Broli. This means Gohan was not yet ready to fully tap his true Super Saiyan abilities.

Movie 10, as well, enforces this. When Gohan is fighting Broli, he notes to himself that his opponent is every bit as strong as before, and then mentions that he himself has powered up considerably since then. If Gohan had finished his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, there would be something horribly wrong with this statement, because Gohan had lost a large amount of power during the 7 years after the Cell Game. On top of that, when Gohan goes Super Saiyan, he holds out against Broli better than anyone did during Movie 8, proving that he himself had not only become stronger since then, but was greater than where everyone else was at the point of movie 8.

Some may argue that Gohan only said this because he was using Super Saiyan level 2 against Broli - but he, in fact, was not. While the physical changes in Gohan between Level 1 and 2 are basically non-existent, there are many things to be considered on this. Although the appearance of lightning in the aura is not fully consistent in the Anime when it comes to Super Saiyan 2, at this point we had only seen the stage 3 times (movies included) and each time it was obviously shown and present. The budget a movie operates on is greater that an episode of the series, so they would have no reason not to include it. On top of that, we had not yet seen whether or not Gohan was even capable of accessing this stage anymore in the series. 3 months prior to the movie, the Anime was only an episode or two into the 25th Tenka'ichi Budokai. Enforcing this further is the fact we had never seen a Saiyan skip straight to this stage from normal, and did not see this sort of thing happen until Goku confronts the fat Majin Boo, which, in the Anime, was nine months after the movie premiered.

With all of these points in mind, how can it be otherwise that Movie 8 occurred before Goku and Gohan finished their training? Is there something ridiculous about this notion I am not aware of? If one can make sense of the placement of Movie 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 11, and 12, then feel free to correct me. This also makes it a lot easier to try and figure out where Broli might stand against other villains in the series, but that's another discussion for another day. I hope I have been able to lay things out in an intelligent way and show that the common viewpoints on these movies are in error. Thank you for reading.

I don't believe I have anything to add or take away from that at this time, given that my level of caring is only about 15% what it was at the time of being written.

Still, I hope it's useful.