Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

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Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:01 pm

No, not Zeno. Zuno. You know, this guy:

Image

If he literally knows everything, just imagine what he could do if he turned evil and decided to conquer the multiverse.

He would know exactly how to accomplish any goal he had.
He would know exactly what to say to convince anyone to do or believe anything he wanted them to.
He would know the plans and actions of anyone who would attempt to stop him and exactly how to counter them.

He could easily gather the Super Dragonballs and make a perfect wish. He could convince the two Zenos to erase each other, after erasing all of the gods and angels for good measure.

He would never have to actually fight anyone, because he would know precisely how to avoid the fight in the first place.

There would be literally no one that could stop him.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:37 pm

And yet, despite his supposed supreme omniscience, his throat could have easily been slit by Zamasu, a Supreme Kai in training.

In fact, if he literally knows everything, including how to convince anyone, why didn't he use his exceptional eloquence to dissuade Zamasu from his reckless search of the Super Dragon Balls?
"You give corruption far too much credit, evil does not inform good. It sullies it, like the Babari sullied their world with violence, and that arrogant Goku sullied this sacred ground by swinging his fists at a God. Mortals receive the divine gift of intellect, the potential for wisdom, but they misuse it to destroy the beauty of creation. Mortals do not succumb to evil, they are the evil. They create it, and spread it with minds they shouldn't possess. How can we call ourselves gods if we watch this plight and do nothing to stop it?"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:47 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:And yet, despite his supposed supreme omniscience, his throat could have easily been slit by Zamasu, a Supreme Kai in training.

In fact, if he literally knows everything, including how to convince anyone, why didn't he use his exceptional eloquence to dissuade Zamasu from his reckless search of the Super Dragon Balls?
Who knows? Maybe he knew what would ultimately happen to Zamasu and decided to just let it play out.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by shadowfox87 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:21 pm

There was a theory a long time ago that there was originally one being that was so powerful that he split himself into three parts - Omnipotence (Zeno), Omniscience (Zuno), and Omnipresence (Zalama). He thought that the most powerful person should not also be the most knowledgeable and so weakened himself. This is similar to how the Nameless Namekian split himself into King Piccolo and Kami. Future Zeno wasn't even aware of what Zamasu was doing even though 12 Hakaishins and Kaishins were dead, with 12 Angels being inactive. In general as stated by Toriyama in an interview, Shenlon cannot grant a wish that exceeds the abilities of its creator. That would apply for Super Shenlon as well and if all universes were restored, then Zalama being omnipresent would have made sense.

Just a theory though.

Zuno by himself isn't all that great. If he was truly all knowing, he would have known Zamasu was going to come see him and prevent it or be ready for him.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:29 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:There was a theory a long time ago that there was originally one being that was so powerful that he split himself into three parts - Omnipotence (Zeno), Omniscience (Zuno), and Omnipresence (Zalama). He thought that the most powerful person should not also be the most knowledgeable and so weakened himself. This is similar to how the Nameless Namekian split himself into King Piccolo and Kami. Future Zeno wasn't even aware of what Zamasu was doing even though 12 Hakaishins and Kaishins were dead, with 12 Angels being inactive. In general as stated by Toriyama in an interview, Shenlon cannot grant a wish that exceeds the abilities of its creator. That would apply for Super Shenlon as well and if all universes were restored, then Zalama being omnipresent would have made sense.

Just a theory though.

Zuno by himself isn't all that great. If he was truly all knowing, he would have known Zamasu was going to come see him and prevent it or be ready for him.
The version I'll be doing in the fic I'm writing will be that the Daishinkan pulled a fast one on Zalama, stole his power, and put him inside of Zuno. The Universes stay erased after the ToP because the Daishinkan is a dick and he ordered Super Shenron to not accept any wishes that interfere with his plan. So, the heroes have to find Zalama and restore his power so the Universes can be brought back.

That's kind of a dumb idea, but I also plan to do a thing with "The Original Namekian." Basically, he's the original Namekian created by Zalama, and all the Namekians of U6 and U7 descend from him. He's extremely old and powerful, naturally.

Just because you can see the future doesn't mean you can prevent it, look at Bardock.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:13 pm

It's funny to think that a side character in the U6 arc is one of the most dangerous. :P

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:47 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:And yet, despite his supposed supreme omniscience, his throat could have easily been slit by Zamasu, a Supreme Kai in training.

In fact, if he literally knows everything, including how to convince anyone, why didn't he use his exceptional eloquence to dissuade Zamasu from his reckless search of the Super Dragon Balls?
Who knows? Maybe he knew what would ultimately happen to Zamasu and decided to just let it play out.
I still don't buy it. If he were so omniscient, he should have foreseen that Zamasu would threaten his life, and yet he was clearly terrified by Zamasu, and even checked if his throat had been slit.

It is very likely that Zuno only knows every notion of every culture in the Multiverse. But I don't believe that he knows how to convince anyone, or how to defeat anyone.
"You give corruption far too much credit, evil does not inform good. It sullies it, like the Babari sullied their world with violence, and that arrogant Goku sullied this sacred ground by swinging his fists at a God. Mortals receive the divine gift of intellect, the potential for wisdom, but they misuse it to destroy the beauty of creation. Mortals do not succumb to evil, they are the evil. They create it, and spread it with minds they shouldn't possess. How can we call ourselves gods if we watch this plight and do nothing to stop it?"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:36 am

Knowing everything =/= Being omniscient or foresee the future lol
Also he's not a fighter and likely does not have any special power given how frightened he was in front of Zamasu lol
I see him a bit like some alive library of some sort lol

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:45 pm

Yeah, I think he knows everything that has happened since the dawn of time, but he doesn't know the future nor what specific things to do to take over worlds etc.
I could also see that he just has a weird ability to answer correctly to any inquiry or question without actually having that knowledge beforehand, kinda like Shenlong not knowing he could grant a wish before actually trying.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Meshack » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:53 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Knowing everything =/= Being omniscient or foresee the future lol
Also he's not a fighter and likely does not have any special power given how frightened he was in front of Zamasu lol
I see him a bit like some alive library of some sort lol
Right.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Meshack » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 pm

Why would someone imagine Zuno-sama being evil? Just because he knows everything? That’s like imagining if Gokou became evil due to his power. It’s not gonna happen

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Regarder » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:27 pm

He would know exactly how to accomplish any goal he had.
He would know exactly what to say to convince anyone to do or believe anything he wanted them to.
He would know the plans and actions of anyone who would attempt to stop him and exactly how to counter them.

He could easily gather the Super Dragonballs and make a perfect wish. He could convince the two Zenos to erase each other, after erasing all of the gods and angels for good measure.

He would never have to actually fight anyone, because he would know precisely how to avoid the fight in the first place.
He would only know how to accomplish any goal he had if there was a way for him to do it. Knowing everything just tells him what possibilities exist. The possibilities of him succeeding at a given thing might still be zero as there aren't infinite degrees of freedom to choose from. Take convincing people to kill or erase themselves, for example: there's no magical combination of words that can get someone to do that if they aren't already in the right state of mind, so even if he in theory has infinite options, in reality, those are compressed into finite ones, in this example through the limitations of language and suggestibility. He would obviously be very powerful this way, but not invincible, because he would still have to make sure to keep enough steps ahead in his mind, otherwise he may end up in a situation where even with all the knowledge about it, there is literally ZERO possible methods he can use to get out of it and in every possible future he still dies.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Desassina » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:03 pm

Zuno could have told anyone that Gowasu and Zamasu went to 1'000 years in the future and returned. The Universe from that event would not lose in the Tournament of Power.

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Cetra » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:23 pm

Zuno can know as much as he wants, it will not help him if the maximum amount of knowledge that can be gathered does not contain what he needs. So he can not reach any goal he wants. For that he would need something even more paradoxical like omnipotence. "Knowing everything" does not necessarily mean "even the impossible", that would need to be defined additionally. It can just mean "every knowledge that can be potentially gathered in the universe". It does not necessarily mean he knows how to do "9u34ßm98p6z5608nuerhreb" if there is no knowledge in the universe for "9u34ßm98p6z5608nu".
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Zillamon51 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:03 am

Zuno has access to all factual knowledge. Where are the Dragonballs, the history of the Dragonballs, every wish ever made, etc.

He cannot necessarily plan or strategize. He cannot read minds. And he cannot see the future. (All of which is implied in the OP.)
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Zillamon51 wrote:Zuno has access to all factual knowledge. Where are the Dragonballs, the history of the Dragonballs, every wish ever made, etc.

He cannot necessarily plan or strategize. He cannot read minds. And he cannot see the future. (All of which is implied in the OP.)
IIRC wasn't there a criminal who was planning to ask him how to continue committing crimes and never get caught? That would imply that he has that kind of knowledge if he could answer that.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Zillamon51 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:20 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:IIRC wasn't there a criminal who was planning to ask him how to continue committing crimes and never get caught? That would imply that he has that kind of knowledge if he could answer that.
One, we don't know if he could answer that.

Two, detailed knowledge of the inner workings of the Galactic Patrol would be quite valuable to a criminal.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:12 am

Zillamon51 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:IIRC wasn't there a criminal who was planning to ask him how to continue committing crimes and never get caught? That would imply that he has that kind of knowledge if he could answer that.
One, we don't know if he could answer that.

Two, detailed knowledge of the inner workings of the Galactic Patrol would be quite valuable to a criminal.
But it wouldn't assure that he could never possibly be caught unless Zuno could know the future.
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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Zillamon51 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:30 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:But it wouldn't assure that he could never possibly be caught unless Zuno could know the future.
If he knew the future, he shouldn't be scared shitless when Zamasu shows up and threatens him.

And if he knew the future, someone should have asked him how to win the ToP.
"...It’s still going to be the same sort of easy-to-understand content as always." - Akira Toriyama, on transitioning from DBZ to DBS.

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I should really just relax..." - MST3K theme song

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Re: Zuno is potentially the most dangerous character in Dragonball history

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:32 am

Zillamon51 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:But it wouldn't assure that he could never possibly be caught unless Zuno could know the future.
If he knew the future, he shouldn't be scared shitless when Zamasu shows up and threatens him.

And if he knew the future, someone should have asked him how to win the ToP.
Well like I said he might have known what would happen to Zamasu and decided to let it. But that is just speculation. I admit I can't prove it. It's just an idea.
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