Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

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Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:20 am

Hey everyone! Welcome to the second edition of "Is It Time For A Redub?". Like I teased yesterday, we're going to be talking about Dragon Ball GT. And from I've seen online, a lot of sub fans hate the original GT dub. It's like the second most hated dub, behind the Z dub. Hell, some people say it's even worse than the Z dub. It's criticized for it's script changes, Mark Menza's score, and some of the performances. And that's why I wanna ask you guys. Like I asked with OG Dragon Ball, do you think it's time for Funimation to put out a more accurate, better acted, with the Japanese score dub GT, or do you think it's best for Funi to just leave the old dub as is?
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am

I'd say leave the dub as it is. Making a better dub isn't going to make GT more tolerable.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by gohann » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:42 am

It seems like a good idea, but not something I'd like to see in this day and age, the only real improvement these days would be getting rid of Mark Menza's store. I'm sure the voices would be hit-or-miss.

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by KBABZ » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:50 am

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:55 am

I'd only want to see it happen for GT if it happens for DB and DBZ first. Be kinda weird (not to mention beside the point) for GT and only GT to get a quality redub.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sangofe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Hey everyone! Welcome to the second edition of "Is It Time For A Redub?". Like I teased yesterday, we're going to be talking about Dragon Ball GT. And from I've seen online, a lot of sub fans hate the original GT dub. It's like the second most hated dub, behind the Z dub. Hell, some people say it's even worse than the Z dub. It's criticized for it's script changes, Mark Menza's score, and some of the performances. And that's why I wanna ask you guys. Like I asked with OG Dragon Ball, do you think it's time for Funimation to put out a more accurate, better acted, with the Japanese score dub GT, or do you think it's best for Funi to just leave the old dub as is?

Yes, I wish the french DBGT dub would get a redub!

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:00 am

Funimation's GT dub is an outstanding achievement in awful. Not only is it an inaccurate dub with bad acting, messy castings, and a terrible replacement score, but its particular brand of changes end up turning a flawed show into an outright terrible show. Reinstating the original music score on the uncut DVDs didn't help in the slighest, if anything it made it worse, since the music is so unfitting with Funimation's style of dubbing for the show, you end up making what is in my opinion the best music in the franchise come off as a jarring mess.

On one hand, I think Funimation should redub GT, because in my opinion, Funimation's poor dubbing was a large portion of the reason for why GT is so hated to this day in the English fandom(Compare GT's reception among fans who grew up on the Funimation version to Latino Spanish fans, or Japanese fans, or even those who grew up on the Blue Water dub). On the other hand, Blue Water already did a rather good dub of GT, and while it's not perfect(There are some iffy castings of the tersiary characters, though several of them do improve over the run), it's a solid dub that fits the tone of the original, and aside from about 2 seconds in episode 15, and about 25 seconds in episode 8, both of which had Goku's penis in full view, the dub was produced uncut, and could easily be put on a modern DVD release as an alternate dub track. If that had been done with Funimation's "Green Brick" DVDs, I'd have bought them regardless of my other numerous qualms about that DVD release's many flaws.

Honestly, because Blue Water's dub is a solid dub(And, again, to be clear: It's not a perfect dub. It's not even that great a dub, it's just pretty good. It's solid. It's a faithful adaptation of the show into English. It's no gold standard, but it's pretty good), I don't think Funimation should redub GT, because their efforts would be better-used redubbing DB and the movies. And unfortunately, even if BW's dub didn't exist, Funimation has already done the damage as far as GT is concerned, so a GT redub just wouldn't sell, most likely. Redubs of DB or the movies, meanwhile, probably would.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by KBABZ » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:55 am

Robo4900 wrote:Reinstating the original music score on the uncut DVDs didn't help in the slighest, if anything it made it worse, since the music is so unfitting with Funimation's style of dubbing for the show, you end up making what is in my opinion the best music in the franchise come off as a jarring mess.
I find it helps for 90% of the show... with the other 10% being the GT Narrator. Good grief.

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:11 pm

Personally I don't feel a need for it. The acting in the Funimation GT dub is fine and while I was never a massive fan of Menza or Step into the Grand Tour, the Green Bricks let you watch it with the Japanese score and some really good covers of the Japanese openings and endings.

Unlike most on here I have no problem watching most of Funimation's pre-Kai dubs and still enjoy them just as much to this day. But if they were going to do a redub then it would make more sense to just dub DB/Z/GT and all the old movies and specials in one consistent go, rather than redubbing random portions. But yeah I like the old dubs just fine and don't feel any need for it myself.

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by gokaiblue » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:21 pm

I think they have the best cast and crew to redub it at this point. Not sure if it's feasible, but they can do it well now.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by t0ffe3m4n » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Robo4900 wrote:Funimation's GT dub is an outstanding achievement in awful. Not only is it an inaccurate dub with bad acting, messy castings, and a terrible replacement score, but its particular brand of changes end up turning a flawed show into an outright terrible show. Reinstating the original music score on the uncut DVDs didn't help in the slighest, if anything it made it worse, since the music is so unfitting with Funimation's style of dubbing for the show, you end up making what is in my opinion the best music in the franchise come off as a jarring mess.

On one hand, I think Funimation should redub GT, because in my opinion, Funimation's poor dubbing was a large portion of the reason for why GT is so hated to this day in the English fandom(Compare GT's reception among fans who grew up on the Funimation version to Latino Spanish fans, or Japanese fans, or even those who grew up on the Blue Water dub). On the other hand, Blue Water already did a rather good dub of GT, and while it's not perfect(There are some iffy castings of the tersiary characters, though several of them do improve over the run), it's a solid dub that fits the tone of the original, and aside from about 2 seconds in episode 15, and about 25 seconds in episode 8, both of which had Goku's penis in full view, the dub was produced uncut, and could easily be put on a modern DVD release as an alternate dub track. If that had been done with Funimation's "Green Brick" DVDs, I'd have bought them regardless of my other numerous qualms about that DVD release's many flaws.

Honestly, because Blue Water's dub is a solid dub(And, again, to be clear: It's not a perfect dub. It's not even that great a dub, it's just pretty good. It's solid. It's a faithful adaptation of the show into English. It's no gold standard, but it's pretty good), I don't think Funimation should redub GT, because their efforts would be better-used redubbing DB and the movies. And unfortunately, even if BW's dub didn't exist, Funimation has already done the damage as far as GT is concerned, so a GT redub just wouldn't sell, most likely. Redubs of DB or the movies, meanwhile, probably would.
Honestly, you're spot on.

As much as I love GT's Japanese soundtrack, FUNI's dub sounds so out of place against it especially with the divergence of audio fidelity that's present. I feel that a dub would've worked x100 better with something akin to Super's soundtrack for this reason.. and here is a great example of that.

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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:15 am

It's WAY worse than DBZ dub.
GT's dub is a disgrace. It shouldn't be released.

Music? Trash.
Dialogues? Trash + TONS of plotholes.

GT should totally should have a redub with all original voices but unchanged dialogues and music.

FUNimation stated that Super 17 is only twice as strong as regular 17 (LMAO).
Cell trained for years in hell and was trashed by base Goku
Super 17 was toying with everyone and trashed SSJ4 Goku

In original version, Hell Fighter 17 alone was much stronger than Cell making him stronger than Super 17 from english dub.

I wonder did they even watch the show before they dubbed it?
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:21 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:It's WAY worse than DBZ dub.
GT's dub is a disgrace. It shouldn't be released.

Music? Trash.
Dialogues? Trash + TONS of plotholes.

GT should totally should have a redub with all original voices but unchanged dialogues and music.

FUNimation stated that Super 17 is only twice as strong as regular 17 (LMAO).
Cell trained for years in hell and was trashed by base Goku
Super 17 was toying with everyone and trashed SSJ4 Goku

In original version, Hell Fighter 17 alone was much stronger than Cell making him stronger than Super 17 from english dub.

I wonder did they even watch the show before they dubbed it?
It's on par with Z at the very least. I don't think you remember just how bad Z's dub was. Both Z and DB had the type of plot hole you just listed. Why are you singling out GT? Lastly, the season sets have the original music with the dub as an option, so that's a moo point.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:30 am

ABED wrote:It's on par with Z at the very least. I don't think you remember just how bad Z's dub was. Both Z and DB had the type of plot hole you just listed. Why are you singling out GT? Lastly, the season sets have the original music with the dub as an option, so that's a moo point.
I don't remember DBZ having such bad plotholes. I mean, sure there was scientist Bardock, but it didn't really affect logic in important way.
And fight with Cell in GT took place right before Super 17 appeared which makes this arc complete bs in english version. It pretty much heavily contradicted what happened 1-2 episodes earlier.

Not to mention Hell Fighter 17 being stated to be equal to original #17 as well and Vegeta stating that his power level is pathetic compared to his. Yet after fusing (and becoming 2 times stronger), SSJ Vegeta can't even touch him. That makes completely no sense and turns already pretty bad saga to unwatchable trash.

Beside, DBZ had very good music, i actually prefer Faulconer score over original one. Meanwhile, Menza's score was a disaster.
The only thing GT did better was voice acting, especially compared to first half of DBZ's dub.
And i actually like most of GT's voices even better than original.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:41 am

So that one plot hole is the determining factor its not the awful inexperienced acting and atrocious dialog, which got mildly better by the time GT rolled around?

And to be honest, I never put much thought into that plothole you bring up. That arc is so minor and the lines go by so quick. I think you are making mountains out of molehills. I'll take that over lines like "krillin's in da' house!" and "you dirty crook, you stole your mother's pocket book". Dialog like that makes me wince.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:58 am

ABED wrote:So that one plot hole is the determining factor its not the awful inexperienced acting and atrocious dialog, which got mildly better by the time GT rolled around?

And to be honest, I never put much thought into that plothole you bring up. That arc is so minor and the lines go by so quick. I think you are making mountains out of molehills. I'll take that over lines like "krillin's in da' house!" and "you dirty crook, you stole your mother's pocket book". Dialog like that makes me wince.
No. Dub missed a lot of important things. Why do you think people still repeat that bs about Vegeta getting SSJ4 by some machine? Why they repeat that bs about him losing control as Oozaru? Because of english dub. Entire process of Vegeta's transformation was explained in japanese version and completely missed in english version.

And GT's dub also had some stupid lines you know. The worst part were the heroic speeches of Goku. In DBZ, there wasn't much of it except for "I am" speech. In GT, he keeps repeating unbearable things like "i am the light" and all the other justice speeches like he was sent by heavens to punish evil.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:16 am

Vegeta did achieve SSJ4 because of Bulma's machine. And there are many problems created by Z's dub that persist to this day, including entire characterizations of not just central characters, but the nature of the story itself. GT isn't alone in that regard.

Of course GT had some bad lines, but Z was SO much worse. Even if you could quantify it and I agreed with you, GT is not that much worse than Z. They both suffer from the same issues.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:28 am

ABED wrote:Vegeta did achieve SSJ4 because of Bulma's machine. And there are many problems created by Z's dub that persist to this day, including entire characterizations of not just central characters, but the nature of the story itself. GT isn't alone in that regard.

Of course GT had some bad lines, but Z was SO much worse. Even if you could quantify it and I agreed with you, GT is not that much worse than Z. They both suffer from the same issues.
The point is that machine only turned him into Oozaru and he achieved SSJ4 on his own.
Goku needed help in both Oozaru (Pulling off tail) and SSJ4 (Pan helped him).
But dub didn't explain anything. It didn't explain how machine really works. It didn't explain why Vegeta might've actually lost control resulting in people writing stupid comments like "TOEI forgot Vegeta can control Oozaru" and all the hate going on Vegeta and TOEI, while FUNimation is to blame.

But okay, even if we assume that quality of dialogues and ammount of plotholes is equal, DBZ still has great music and GT has awful music. And turning off music isn't the answer for this and doesn't solve the problem. TV version aired with the bad music. The good one was only on DVDs.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:34 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
ABED wrote:Vegeta did achieve SSJ4 because of Bulma's machine. And there are many problems created by Z's dub that persist to this day, including entire characterizations of not just central characters, but the nature of the story itself. GT isn't alone in that regard.

Of course GT had some bad lines, but Z was SO much worse. Even if you could quantify it and I agreed with you, GT is not that much worse than Z. They both suffer from the same issues.
The point is that machine only turned him into Oozaru and he achieved SSJ4 on his own.
Goku needed help in both Oozaru (Pulling off tail) and SSJ4 (Pan helped him).
But dub didn't explain anything. It didn't explain how machine really works. It didn't explain why Vegeta might've actually lost control resulting in people writing stupid comments like "TOEI forgot Vegeta can control Oozaru" and all the hate going on Vegeta and TOEI, while FUNimation is to blame.

But okay, even if we assume that quality of dialogues and ammount of plotholes is equal, DBZ still has great music and GT has awful music. And turning off music isn't the answer for this and doesn't solve the problem. TV version aired with the bad music. The good one was only on DVDs.
So you consider it a bad dub BECAUSE it didn't over explain things? Whatever GT's issues are come from the show itself, not the dub. The confusion about Z comes mostly from the dub.

Vegeta never lost his rationality. He played around. Unlike Goku, he mastered Oozaru years prior. I don't remember the dub dialog, but this doesn't seem like such a huge point of contention even among dub fans because GT isn't that popular.

We'll have to disagree about DBZ's dub music. Both scores are god awful.

And my coup de grace is the god awful acting in DBZ season 3 and 4. GT has the benefit of a larger talent pool and more experienced cast.
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Re: Is It Time For A Redub? Dragon Ball GT

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:51 am

ABED wrote:So you consider it a bad dub BECAUSE it didn't over explain things? Whatever GT's issues are come from the show itself, not the dub. The confusion about Z comes mostly from the dub.

Vegeta never lost his rationality. He played around. Unlike Goku, he mastered Oozaru years prior. I don't remember the dub dialog, but this doesn't seem like such a huge point of contention even among dub fans because GT isn't that popular.

We'll have to disagree about DBZ's dub music. Both scores are god awful.

And my coup de grace is the god awful acting in DBZ season 3 and 4. GT has the benefit of a larger talent pool and more experienced cast.
In Baby saga, in original version, Old Kai explained that forcing transformation into Oozaru without a tail would make Baby go rampage. The only reason Baby didn't lose control was that he was a parasite but even with that, effects were so strong that he STILL got affected and started going crazy. Old Kai clearly said that.
Bulma said that Vegeta can control Oozaru, but since his transformation was forced there was a chance that he could actually lose control. It isn't clear if he lost it or not, since it looked like he was faking it all the time (even saying that he would NEVER lost control after that) but the point is he had a reason to lose it.

English dub didn't explain anything of that. So yes, it's the issue from dub, not show. It caused a lot of disrespect for GT Vegeta.

Well, i think DBZ dub music is awesome. Even if you don't like it, you can't say it lack variety. Tracks are very unique and fit certain situations (there are slower, more sad themes and more intense ones as well). In GT, all tracks were totally generic and sounded the same with no variety. Also, music plays all the time with few to none exceptions (not sure, thre might be few moments without music). They both totally destroyed openings though.

And yes, GT obviously has better voice acting.
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