Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 81-85 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 17]

[Ajay]

Welcome! For details on this rewatch, click here!

Last week was crazy busy, I fell behind, and never ended up posting. Instead of dumping a big 81 - 90 thread, I figured I'd give everyone what is essentially a week break if you kept up, or an opportunity to catch up if you fell behind!

Here are some legal ways to stream the series:
Funimation (North America)
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand)

This week we're covering:

[spoiler]ピッコロの自信！フリーザを倒すのはオレだ
Pikkoro no Jishin! Furīza o Taosu no wa Ore da
Piccolo’s Self-Confidence! I Will Be the One to Defeat Freeza

Piccolo and Freeza’s battle has begun. Seeing Piccolo’s extreme confidence, Kuririn can’t hide his uneasiness. But Gohan alone trusts that Piccolo has a chance at victory. Piccolo’s fight shows that his confidence was justified. Turning down Gohan and Kuririn’s offer of assistance, Piccolo challenges Freeza alone to the very end. Having united with Piccolo, Nail’s consciousness causes Freeza to falter. The two’s battle is completely even.

出撃だ悟空！！激怒のフリーザが第２の変身
Shutsugeki da Gokū!! Gekido no Furīza ga Dai-Ni no Henshin
Sally Forth, Goku!! A Furious Freeza’s 2nd Transformation

Fighting with Piccolo, Freeza had even more power hidden. Finally getting serious, he attacks Piccolo. But Piccolo removes his cloak and turban. Piccolo had been fighting with a weighted cloak!! But Freeza still has two transformations remaining. After powering up even further through his second transformation, Freeza overwhelms Piccolo. Continuously firing energy bullets from his fingers, he wears Piccolo ragged…

恐怖しろ！！　フリーザは３度の変身で勝負する
Kyōfu Shiro!! Furīza wa Sando no Henshin de Shōbu Suru
Fear Me!! Freeza Does Battle With a 3rd Transformation

Gohan flies out to save Piccolo, and fires a full-power energy bullet. Having been pushed back, Freeza finally begins the transformation into his fourth form! Feeling that Gohan is drawing near to becoming a Super Saiyan, Vegeta asks Kuririn to “half-kill me”. He says that if he’s revived just one more time, he will definitely be able to become a Super Saiyan. Dende dislikes this at first, but he revives Vegeta at Piccolo’s urging. Freeza then completes his transformation.

デンデの死…でてこい！とびきり全開パワー
Dende no Shi… Dete Koi! Tobikiri Zenkai Pawā
The Death of Dende… Come Forth! Intense, Full-Force Power

Now that Freeza has reached his final form, his power frightens Piccolo and the others before they even fight. Freeza’s finger briefly glows, and the next instant a beam hits Dende head-on! Dende has been killed! Freeza had realized that Dende possessed restorative powers. Piccolo and the others’ attacks are ineffective, but Vegeta is full of confidence. Supposedly a Super Saiyan, Vegeta challenges Freeza to battle. But Freeza holds Vegeta at bay…

待ちに待ったぜ、この瞬間！！！孫悟空が復活だ
Machi ni Matta ze, Kono Shunkan!!! Son Gokū ga Fukkatsu da
The Moment We’ve Waited For!!! Son Goku is Revived

Even after having tremendously powered up, Vegeta is no good against Freeza. But Vegeta still challenges him, saying that as a Super Saiyan there’s no way he could lose. However, his attacks are all dodged, and even his full-power energy attack is knocked back with just a kick. Vegeta trembles in fear and despair, and finally weeps… He is handily beaten. Piccolo and the others can merely watch. At that moment, Goku is revived![/spoiler]


Suggested Format & Weekly Questions

Language: For the sake of context, let us know which language you're watching the series in (and what score, if required).
General Thoughts: Your thoughts on the episode, possibly linked to the suggested questions if need be. Cover the plot, the tone, the character interactions, and characterisation.
Entertainment Factor: How was the pacing? Did the episode keep you entertained throughout, or what could have been done better?
Animation: Did you like the action sequences, or the way characters emoted? Did things move in a satisfying way, or was it mostly style over substance?
Questions: Not necessary, but if you're curious about opinions on a specific point that hasn't been touched on, go ahead and ask! It's a nice way to spur the topic onward.

- How did you feel about Piccolo's incorporation into the Namek arc? How well was he implemented?

- What are you thoughts on Freeza's third form; does it change the flow or add anything to the narrative?

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

Hey, it's all good. With how busy everyone gets these days, I figured a break was bound to occur eventually.

Episodes covered: Dragon Ball Z 81-85 ("Dragon Ball 234-238")


EPISODE 81
* The fight took some time to get going, and it's not the greatest, but there are a few cool-looking shots in there. And how can I not enjoy Ryûsei Nakao vs Toshio Furukawa?
* The added scene of Vegeta trying to get out of there is perfectly in-character and it does make you wonder why he didn't try to do so in the manga. Maybe he simply didn't think he could get away and/or he was too busy being flabbergasted by Piccolo's performance.
* What's also great is that Nail's presence within Piccolo is acknowledged much, much more in the anime (although we didn't really need a flashback to their merger from 4 episodes ago). It's cool that he gets a second chance to beat Freeza. Only to fail again, of course, but at least he can put up a proper fight this time.

EPISODE 82
* The contrast between Gohan and Kuririn's joy and Vegeta's frustration is funny. Vegeta knows he's screwed even if Piccolo does win.
* In the manga, I'm always a bit disappointed that Freeza transforms immediately after Piccolo removes his weights; I like that there's a bit more of a fight between them in the anime.
* I think I would've preferred Freeza going straight to his final form here. This third one doesn't really add anything; it feels unnecessary and short-lived.

EPISODE 83
* Freeza recognizing Gohan as a relative of Raditz is cool. There was no need to include that little detail, but it's a neat little something extra.
* I love that all the spectators keep getting involved, whether it's by attacking the foe, coming up with strategies, or healing. Makes the battle more of a team effort.
* Yeah, it is a bit of a shame that the anime gives you a glimpse of Freeza's final form before the smoke clears, spoiling the reveal a little.

EPISODE 84
* Time slowing down and the colors disappearing as Freeza is about to death-beam Gohan is a great effect, but it lasts a little too long. As for why Vegeta would bother saving Gohan's life - I see it as him paying Gohan back for saving his life against Recoom. I doubt Toriyama was thinking that, but that's my "headcanon" (for lack of a better word).
* While Vegeta's power-up sequence looked pretty cool in parts, it went on for way too long. Especially when you already know it's not gonna make any difference whatsoever against Freeza. "Super Saiyan", my butt. Oh-ho-ho-hoh!

EPISODE 85
* It's a bit ridiculous to show a flashback to the same manoeuver twice, but on the other hand it's cool to watch Vegeta analyze his own performance.
* Vegeta firing that second blast, then Freeza flying through the subsequent blasts looking like Mewtwo, then Piccolo moving to grab Kuririn and Gohan - that whole sequence looked so good!
* As much as I adore Piccolo's theme, its placement here is really strange. Are they trying to tell us we're supposed to watch this part of the fight "through Piccolo's eyes"?
* I couldn't stand Vegeta while he was in "show-off-my-superiority" mode, but when that delusion is shattered and his will to fight along with it, that's still painful to watch. Yet Vegeta is undeniably a mass-murdering villain who would have tormented the universe had he gotten his wish. So why do I feel sorry for him here? I guess it's that he comes across as a frightened child who, despite all his efforts, still ends up unable to escape his lifelong bully, and doomed to be killed by him.


- How did you feel about Piccolo's incorporation into the Namek arc? How well was he implemented?
Sigh... Piccolo is one of my absolute favorite Dragon Ball characters, and I love that he's included in the Namek arc at all (him NOT going to Namek would forever have been considered a missed opportunity), but he didn't end up doing much. Of course, that's mostly because the narrative can't allow him to be the one to beat the only remaining enemy. Piccolo's inclusion might've worked better if he had come in earlier, to help out against Ginyu or something.

- What are you thoughts on Freeza's third form; does it change the flow or add anything to the narrative?
I covered this in my comments for episode 82, but no, indeed, the form doesn't add much, mainly because it's so short-lived. It's like Toriyama went "Now I'll turn him into this nightmareish form... whoops, this one's annoying to draw. Let's transform him again!"


Favorite character: Vegeta certainly tried to steal the show, but he was too arrogant about it and then too demoralized. No, this round goes to Freeza, who continues to be intimidating and ruthless.
Previous favorites: Raditz, Gohan, the Saber Tiger, Kaiô, Tenshinhan, Vegeta(1), Kuririn(1), Bulma, Vegeta(2), Kuririn(2), the Grand Elder, Vegeta(3), Recoom, Captain Ginyu, Freeza, Piccolo.

[Gogeta Blue]

my review of 81 and 82 are on Reddit.
I watched 83 too but i didn't bother to add it.
whatever i will post a Rating:
81: 9.5/10 (nothing/nobody is perfect)
82: 6-7/10
83: 5.5/10
EPISODE 84
I will edit this as soon as i watch it
EPISODE 85
I will edit this as soon as i watch it

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 81

General thoughts: this episode is truly a disappointment. AT LAST Piccolo gets to fight 53 episodes after his death, but the overall execution is bad. And don't get me started, but the fight is boring and didn't age that well. The filler with Vegeta being a coward is also terribly written, and considering the same thing would happen only 4 EPISODES LATER, what's the point of that? What's also the point of TWO MINUTES of flashbacks, involving Nail's fight with Freezer and his assimilation with Piccolo? They were even uncut. It's really distracting.

Entertainment factor: while it wasn't entirely boring, it's not a good fight by any means. Ueda's direction is not as good as usual, and displays several flaws. I forgave King Vegeta's flashbacks in 78 because that episode was so well-directed I didn't care... but here, it feels so distracting and out of context. They could've at least cut them down a bit.

Animation: to be honest, I'm pissed off. This episode had a STRONG STAFF LIST on paper: Takao Koyama as writer (bad writing), Yoshihiro Ueda as director (flawed direction), Daisuke Nishio as storyboard artist (dull and boring storyboarding) and Masahiro Shimanuki and Seigasha in the animation department (strong supervisor but forgettable animation). Even though Nishio's storyboard is in line with his previous work of this arc (mediocre in 67 and disastrous in 73), it's not a good thing, since visuals look dull and the fight isn't even that well-choreographed. Shimanuki's art is at least on-point, and his corrections influence both art- and animation-wise, since action scenes share his trademark impact lines, shaking limbs and debris. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 5270700032 Unfortunately, the animation isn't that good, especially if the most recognizable animator is Takeuchi, who animates a great deal of action here: all of his scenes share his typical robotic and jerky close combats, combined with comic-book-like action lines and distorted expressions, which also appear on characters that don't fight. Definitely unnecessary. Tate animates a small bit, and while this is maybe his first recognizable cut, it's certainly weaker than his current output. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7102796804

Music: M732 during the Punishing Blaster scene doesn't make any sense, because it's been so overused it doesn't even have an actual identity anymore. On a positive note, M810 and M920 are used for the very first time, despite belonging to older compilations. The former is a great Piccolo theme, the latter is a bit overrated. Overall, it's a mediocre placement.

Overall: 5/10. DISAPPOINTING.

Episode 82

General thoughts: on the other hand, I didn't expect anything memorable from this episode, but it's surprisingly more enjoyable than the last one. I'm quite satisfied the anime made Piccolo fight all-out, without his heavy cape and turban, which the manga completely overlooked. I also like the idea of a third form for Freezer, which looks hideous and creepy in a GOOD way, and also makes him less uncouth and vulgar than he was in his 2nd form. The flashback with Dende lasts only a few seconds, but I let it slide this time because it's in line with Vegeta's idea of activating his plot devic... his Zenkai boost. At last we get some well-executed martial arts and also another torture procedure with Freezer's Crazy Finger Beam on Piccolo.

Entertainment factor: I guess the pacing is all right. This is Kikuchi's 2nd time as a director, and is fairly decent. He has some potential, even though he misses some chances.

Animation: his storyboarding is also decent, with some nice usage of colors during power-up scenes, but again, his output is slightly inconsistent. This episode is made for Shindo's art, as it features two aliens fighting, and as a result his extremely angular approach is incredibly fitting this time. Teruhisa Ryu animating Freezer's transformation makes PERFECTLY sense, since his output is in line with Shindo's, once again. Noriko Shibata's animations are still a tad slow and stiff https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 3050161154, whereas Tadayoshi Yamamuro is definitely the star of the episode: his focus on martial arts is really interesting, as he delivers some really well-executed action scenes. His art looks on-model, too, which is not a surprise, knowing the subject. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 2155807750

Music: this time I don't have big complaints about the BGM placement, it's all right. M424B during Piccolo's torture sounds a bit overdramatic.

Overall: 7,5/10. I enjoyed the ride.

[sintzu]

The added scene of Vegeta trying to get out of there is perfectly in-character and it does make you wonder why he didn't try to do so in the manga.

He didn't do it in the manga because it would be completely out of character. Vegeta would rather die than run away which is exactly what we saw. Even after being completely broken by Freeza, he stayed and took a beating like a bitc...boss.

You could bring up him leaving Goku alone to fight the 2 Ginyus but that wasn't out of fear, it was to get the dragon balls.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

The added scene of Vegeta trying to get out of there is perfectly in-character and it does make you wonder why he didn't try to do so in the manga.

He didn't do it in the manga because it would be completely out of character. Vegeta would rather die than run away which is exactly what we saw. Even after being completely broken by Freeza, he stayed and took a beating like a bitc...boss.

You could bring up him leaving Goku alone to fight the 2 Ginyus but that wasn't out of fear, it was to get the dragon balls.

If this was Cell-arc Vegeta - where he believes he is the strongest thing in the universe - I'd agree that he would rather die than run. But in my mind, Vegeta trying to run from Freeza was perfectly in-line with the mindset he's had the entire Namek arc: trying anything and everything he could to survive and eventually overcome Freeza.

There's also his battle on Earth - he decided to flee in his spacepod rather than stay and die.

[sintzu]

There's his battle on Earth - he decided to flee in his spacepod rather than stay and die.

Everyone was down so there was no reason to stay behind. I highly doubt he would've tried that if Goku was standing over him, he would've told him to kill him instead.

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 83

General thoughts: I hate Bulma. Seriously. Anyway, as much as I enjoyed the direction, the entire sequence of Gohan's Bakuretsu Ranma seems dragged out, but it's well-executed at least. I also like that Freezer immediately assumes Gohan is Raditz's son, judging from his increasing power, and we actually start noticing his fear of Super Saiyans. As for his immediate decision of reaching his final form, I guess it's fine, since that 3rd form was more like an in-betweener. Krillin imagining Freezer's new form is funny, Vegeta's plan makes sense, but Dende doesn't want to heal him at first. On one hand, it makes perfect sense, but in hindsight, Dende acts like a whimsical kid. The introduction of Freezer's 4th and final form is so well-executed, as Vegeta prepares to fight him in his new """""Super Saiyan""""" form.

Entertainment factor: finally NO flashbacks here. Ueda's direction is back to his usual levels after a disappointing output in 81.

Animation: of course, we're talking about Last House, so they're totally into animation: Ohara handles the largest portion of this episode, including the entire Bakuretsu Ranma segment and the whole sequence of Freezer's transformation 'till the end. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7145573376 He's definitely the best choice for introducing Freezer's 4th form, with some pretty cool rotations and beautiful character art. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 4143793152 As for Uchiyama, his art is far less detailed, but looks fine overall, while Shida's presence is basically limited, with only a nice rotation of 3rd form Freezer and Krillin firing a ki blast at Vegeta's chest. This time his great art stands out more than his animation. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 4375669761

Music: no big complaints. Solid music placement.

Overall: 8/10. A bit generous, but still.

Episode 84

General thoughts: another great entry. Freezer's new form is intimidating, despite looking apparently harmless. And he proves it by killing Dende, which is a clever move, as he noticed his healing ability that came in handy so many times. Of course, nobody can land a hit on him, because he's just too fast. Not even Vegeta, who is starting to realize he might not be a Super Saiyan, despite a flashy power-up sequence.

Entertainment factor: utterly enjoyable. Orime delivers his best direction in his last DB appearance. Kinda sad to see nothing more from him.

Animation: Orime's storyboarding is excellent, once again, and obviously the best thing about this episode. He even uses different characters as transitions during the fight scene in the 1st half, which is so unique and interesting. And Vegeta's power up looks like a reference to his power up scene in ep. 30, the first episode he storyboarded. Nice callback. Unfortunately, Ebisawa's choreographies are definitely the weakest part, as I'm absolutely not a fan of his punching the camera device, which feels so forced and repetitive. He has a fine timing, but his concepts are terrible. Not to mention his art. Kan'no tackles the first minutes + Dende's murder, Iida the next bit and the ending part. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 6945057792 Furthermore, guest stars Takeo Ide and Hideko Okimoto animate Vegeta's ""transformation"" sequence, and even though Ebisawa correcting Ide is a tad weird, it works with his masculine expressions. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 8672474113

Music: again, nothing to complain about. Another solid placement, even though M424B is so overused at this point.

Overall: 8,5/10. Definitely enjoyed it.

Episode 85

General thoughts: the pacing is the biggest flaw of this episode. If it was faster, it would be PERFECT. This is the best episode I've seen so far, because the action, the direction and storyboarding feels so ALIVE here. Vegeta losing his will to fight and suffering a mental breakdown not only cancels his chicken attitude in 81, but feels also POWERFUL, with Kaio narrating his fear, and how Freezer will be his nightmare metaphorically and literally. Since Yanami voices both Kaio and the narrator, it makes perfect sense. Maybe Freezer torturing Vegeta in the 2nd half appears pretty weak, due to a quite poor pacing, but everything else is so great. Goku's comeback is pretty well-executed, too.

Entertainment factor: the most enjoyable so far. At last, Kazuhito Kikuchi displays some AMAZING directional skills. From his sense of scale, to Freezer's eyes STARING at Vegeta, acting as a transition. Absolutely adore it. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 6306354189

Animation: likewise, Kikuchi's storyboarding is INTENSE and so STRONG, just like Last House animators' output: Ohara delivers a really engaging and fun action scene with Vegeta firing blasts at Freezer. In this case the use of energy attacks WORKS, because it's included in a solid context. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 2152197120 Shida's presence is again limited, but his art is so great to be overlooked that easily. And Kikuchi's storyboarding gives further value to his output. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 9673232384 Uchiyama's contribution is also solid, as he animates Vegeta's Galick Gun, and Freezer headbutting and kicking Vegeta to the ocean. Ohara handles the rest of the 2nd half, including Goku's recovery. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 6664963072

Music: I sound repetitive, but I found another pretty solid placement. Great use of M121, M818 and M1020, but Piccolo's Overwhelming Confidence is used during a non-Piccolo-centered fight? A bit odd.

Overall: 9/10. It would be 10/10 if it was more animated and had a better pacing.

[Taisa732]

Language: Japanese

Episode 81:
General Thoughts: This episode infuriates me. I want to get up just so I can use my chair to smash the screen with, hoping it feels pain. This is probably one of, if not the most irritating episode. Yes, I do have problems with individual scenes or choices throughout the series, and even if as a whole it isn't that bad it does enough damage that I can't look past the major flaws it has.
Ok, so what is it that makes me so mad? If you haven't guess by now the thing that I look at the most in Dragon Ball are it's characters. I can live with a less impressive animation episode if characters are well treated and are recognizable to what Toriyama's intent was.
Even more than that if there is one character that always gets my full attention and I have a great respect for is Vegeta. He's an amazing character an one of the many, many, reasons why I like him so much is because of his strong willpower. No matter how bad the situation is or how low he has to go before he reaches the bottom, he ultimately always gets up and fights even when he know that he won't make it.
So why in hell is he portrait like a coward? He's probably one of the least cowardly people in the entire franchise! Even more infuriating than that is the fact that it contradicts everything he does up until this point and what he's about to do in the very near future. So it also undermines his last stand, and that is really enraging.
This portrayal of Vegeta is one of the main reasons why I hate move 8 (spoiler alert, if you even care for what I think). And... to nobody's surprise, both of these are written by Takao Koyama.

Animation: I'm seriously too mad at the content to even look at the animation, and it's probably for the best. That's because I'd normally be looking at it thinking what a waste it is having one of the best studios working on this abomination, but this is not a very good Seigasha episode if you want me to be honest.

Episode 82:
General Thoughts: Can we please take a moment to appreciate Nakao's talent? You can still tell it's him, but every Freeza transformation has a “new” voice.
Other than that the fight is ok, nothing too crazy.

Animation: Even if this isn't a stellar episode a lot of nice storyboard choices keeps it from being boring. Some colour palettes are interesting and a few interesting shots composition (the one I liked the most is the door seen from the tank Goku is in). Best thing though has to be Vegeta remembering Dende's powers.
I also liked Freeza's transformation.

Episode 83:
General Thoughts: Speaking of transformation. I think that the best part of this particular one is everything around it. The other characters aren't just standing there waiting of it to happen because there is a lot going on in the meantime.
I specifically like Dende and his moral debate in healing Vegeta and the fact that in the end is Piccolo/Nail to convince him to go back and do it. Also Freeza's realisation that the namakian brat is actually very useful is another interesting development. Finally, Vegeta being a jerk to Dende after he heals him is a reminder that he still isn't a good guy.
Freeza's new form is so good, Toriyama is a real genius when it comes to character design. Only he con make such a simplistic, clean and almost week-looking design seem terrifying and threatening.

Animation: It's very basic. A part form the beginning scene the rest is a lot of standing around. Nothing in particular stood out to me.
But I liked the way they reveal Freeza's new looks.

Episode 84:
General Thoughts: Can we talk about Vegeta for a second and how he already changed during this arc?
While fighting against the Ginyu Tokusentai, Gohan and Krillin save him but instead of thanking them, Vegeta gets mad at Gohan because they should've took the opportunity to kill Recoome. Think is though that he's now doing the exact same thing! Going against his own philosophy Vegeta, who is the only one how can see Freeza's attack, goes out of his way to save Gohan. This is probably the most interesting thing about this episode, for me.
Also the pay-off of Freeza killing Dende after he saw him healing Piccolo during his transformation, leaving the group without a healer.

Animation: It's a bit of a mix one. A side from the obvious shift in quality in terms of art-style (not naming names), it's just one of these “powering up” types of episodes. They usually are a hit or mess depending on who animated the majority of it.
In this case I'll be lying if I said I didn't like it. The effects are all very interesting and unique so at the end of the day I do have to admit that I did enjoyed it.

Episode 85:
General Thoughts: This is how you write Vegeta at his lowest point. He doesn't run away like a coward he fights until he breaks. Sorry if I bring this up again.
The scene where he starts crying is so powerful demonstrating how frustrated he is and explaining why he was fighting so hard to beat Freeza. Realizing that there is no hope no matter how much he tries makes him lose even the will to defend himself.
It's a great loss that goes far beyond physical strength, making us see a new side of this character. It's the first time he shows his humanity, that up until this point was hidden behind his anger.
With that said I do think that the crab moment is a bit too over the top.

Animation: First part is nice. Vegeta reliving the end of the previews episode in “slow-motion”. Also him firing ki blast has interesting colouring.
The rest is just a slow agonising torture scene for someone how already gave up.

- How did you feel about Piccolo's incorporation into the Namek arc? How well was he implemented?

You can't have an entire arc on Namek and not having the main namakian in the cast show up! It would be like if we had and arc on planet Vegeta without saiyans we know well. I think it was a necessity to have him here.
As far as implementation... the only thing that always bothered me is a detail in Piccolo's reasoning. So reviving him will restore Earth dragon balls, but if he goes on Namek and dies it would've been for nothing. But to be honest this is just me being nitpicky... as usual.

- What are you thoughts on Freeza's third form; does it change the flow or add anything to the narrative?

In hindsight it's a very useless transformation that serves nothing more that to scare the first time reader/viewer. But honestly same goes for the previews form. Freeza could've gone directly from his first to his final form and we wouldn't have noticed much difference.
The only thing I find funny about it is Krillin's imagination when Freeza is about to transform into his final.

[JazzMazz]

Sorry for not posting here a lot, but I watched the episodes and here are my quick thoughts.

Episode 81

General thoughts: Surprisingly dull on the whole. Don't really like it.

Entertainment factor: Pretty boring episode, none of the big moments really had much emotional impact, nothing really excited happened. The fight was quite repetitive, and the flashbacks breaking up the action didn't do any favours for helping its memorability.

Animation: Nothing really noteworthy here. The action was mostly fine, but considering the amount of re-use, to me it seemed that episode was barely keeping its head above water.

Episode 82

General Thoughts: Significantly better than the previous entry. Not great on a whole, but it was still decent enough.

Entertainment factor: Its engaging enough, if only for the really interesting storyboard and story content. However, like many have already mentioned, a lot of the moments didn't land as they should of.

Animation: A surprisingly strong effort from Shindo, it had some genuinely interesting movement in it, and was quite polished on the whole. I must say, Kukuchi's board here is really nice. I think its really dynamic and interesting a fair bit of the time. However, I don't necessarily feel all his story beats land as intended. Overall, a solid effort on his part though.

Episode 83

General Thoughts: A lot of crap happens this episode. Really liked the opening fight scene, and the final transformation is fantastic, however, I'm a little indifferent to the stuff inbetween.

Entertainment factor: A really fantastic and huge opening to the episode, however, after the opening clash, I feel the episode kind becomes less interesting for a while before the reveal of the final transformation. Everything is pretty well handled considering, just feel a little indifferent to specific sections.

Animation: A really mixed bag. On the one hand, there was some really interesting stuff, namely from powerhouses Shida and Ohara, however, it also had some of the worst KA in the history of the show.

Episode 84

General Thoughts: Holy crap, this was great.

Entertainment Factor: A fantastic episode. The tension was palpable, every story beat had the necessary emotional impact and weight. Just a fantastic effort. This episode did a wonderful job of selling the terrifying nature of Freeza's final form to the audience. Just great stuff. Orime's direction and storyboarding here is absolutely exceptional.

Animation: Not much in the way of interesting animation. Ide's power-up was nice, but Ebisawa's action wasn't appealing in the least. Fantastic storyboarding and direction really elevated this episode to something great.

[MrTennek]

Guess these threads are dead. Shame, I was enjoying reading them.

[JazzMazz]

Guess these threads are dead. Shame, I was enjoying reading them.

When Ajay actually begins his updating them, then we'll probably get back to posting stuff.

Right now, Ajay is at Kamehacon.

[Ss5Troten]

[spoiler]Hey, it's all good. With how busy everyone gets these days, I figured a break was bound to occur eventually.

Episodes covered: Dragon Ball Z 81-85 ("Dragon Ball 234-238")


EPISODE 81
* The fight took some time to get going, and it's not the greatest, but there are a few cool-looking shots in there. And how can I not enjoy Ryûsei Nakao vs Toshio Furukawa?
* The added scene of Vegeta trying to get out of there is perfectly in-character and it does make you wonder why he didn't try to do so in the manga. Maybe he simply didn't think he could get away and/or he was too busy being flabbergasted by Piccolo's performance.
* What's also great is that Nail's presence within Piccolo is acknowledged much, much more in the anime (although we didn't really need a flashback to their merger from 4 episodes ago). It's cool that he gets a second chance to beat Freeza. Only to fail again, of course, but at least he can put up a proper fight this time.

EPISODE 82
* The contrast between Gohan and Kuririn's joy and Vegeta's frustration is funny. Vegeta knows he's screwed even if Piccolo does win.
* In the manga, I'm always a bit disappointed that Freeza transforms immediately after Piccolo removes his weights; I like that there's a bit more of a fight between them in the anime.
* I think I would've preferred Freeza going straight to his final form here. This third one doesn't really add anything; it feels unnecessary and short-lived.

EPISODE 83
* Freeza recognizing Gohan as a relative of Raditz is cool. There was no need to include that little detail, but it's a neat little something extra.
* I love that all the spectators keep getting involved, whether it's by attacking the foe, coming up with strategies, or healing. Makes the battle more of a team effort.
* Yeah, it is a bit of a shame that the anime gives you a glimpse of Freeza's final form before the smoke clears, spoiling the reveal a little.

EPISODE 84
* Time slowing down and the colors disappearing as Freeza is about to death-beam Gohan is a great effect, but it lasts a little too long. As for why Vegeta would bother saving Gohan's life - I see it as him paying Gohan back for saving his life against Recoom. I doubt Toriyama was thinking that, but that's my "headcanon" (for lack of a better word).
* While Vegeta's power-up sequence looked pretty cool in parts, it went on for way too long. Especially when you already know it's not gonna make any difference whatsoever against Freeza. "Super Saiyan", my butt. Oh-ho-ho-hoh!

EPISODE 85
* It's a bit ridiculous to show a flashback to the same manoeuver twice, but on the other hand it's cool to watch Vegeta analyze his own performance.
* Vegeta firing that second blast, then Freeza flying through the subsequent blasts looking like Mewtwo, then Piccolo moving to grab Kuririn and Gohan - that whole sequence looked so good!
* As much as I adore Piccolo's theme, its placement here is really strange. Are they trying to tell us we're supposed to watch this part of the fight "through Piccolo's eyes"?
* I couldn't stand Vegeta while he was in "show-off-my-superiority" mode, but when that delusion is shattered and his will to fight along with it, that's still painful to watch. Yet Vegeta is undeniably a mass-murdering villain who would have tormented the universe had he gotten his wish. So why do I feel sorry for him here? I guess it's that he comes across as a frightened child who, despite all his efforts, still ends up unable to escape his lifelong bully, and doomed to be killed by him.


- How did you feel about Piccolo's incorporation into the Namek arc? How well was he implemented?
Sigh... Piccolo is one of my absolute favorite Dragon Ball characters, and I love that he's included in the Namek arc at all (him NOT going to Namek would forever have been considered a missed opportunity), but he didn't end up doing much. Of course, that's mostly because the narrative can't allow him to be the one to beat the only remaining enemy. Piccolo's inclusion might've worked better if he had come in earlier, to help out against Ginyu or something.

- What are you thoughts on Freeza's third form; does it change the flow or add anything to the narrative?
I covered this in my comments for episode 82, but no, indeed, the form doesn't add much, mainly because it's so short-lived. It's like Toriyama went "Now I'll turn him into this nightmareish form... whoops, this one's annoying to draw. Let's transform him again!"


Favorite character: Vegeta certainly tried to steal the show, but he was too arrogant about it and then too demoralized. No, this round goes to Freeza, who continues to be intimidating and ruthless.
Previous favorites: Raditz, Gohan, the Saber Tiger, Kaiô, Tenshinhan, Vegeta(1), Kuririn(1), Bulma, Vegeta(2), Kuririn(2), the Grand Elder, Vegeta(3), Recoom, Captain Ginyu, Freeza, Piccolo.[/spoiler]

I’ve spent the last few months kind of peeking in and out of the forums and being a bit less active due to life stuff but today reading this has made me happy. Excellent breakdown here. I had no clue some of the forum had decided to all at once rewatch Z. I have been rewatching my Z Dragon Boxes lately and have decided to stop being so random with my ordering and jump in with you guys. I’ll probablt spend a week or so catching up but I hope to participate by week 20!

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

I’ve spent the last few months kind of peeking in and out of the forums and being a bit less active due to life stuff but today reading this has made me happy. Excellent breakdown here. I had no clue some of the forum had decided to all at once rewatch Z. I have been rewatching my Z Dragon Boxes lately and have decided to stop being so random with my ordering and jump in with you guys. I’ll probablt spend a week or so catching up but I hope to participate by week 20!

Hey, thanks! I never would have thought I could make someone happy by blabbing about Dragon Ball. That makes me happy in return.

Just FYI, this rewatch project thingy seems to have gone on a bit of a hiatus (because of KamehaCon and because Ajay is probably quite busy in general), but I imagine it'll start back up again within a week or two.

[Ss5Troten]

I’ve spent the last few months kind of peeking in and out of the forums and being a bit less active due to life stuff but today reading this has made me happy. Excellent breakdown here. I had no clue some of the forum had decided to all at once rewatch Z. I have been rewatching my Z Dragon Boxes lately and have decided to stop being so random with my ordering and jump in with you guys. I’ll probablt spend a week or so catching up but I hope to participate by week 20!

Hey, thanks! I never would have thought I could make someone happy by blabbing about Dragon Ball. That makes me happy in return.

Just FYI, this rewatch project thingy seems to have gone on a bit of a hiatus (because of KamehaCon and because Ajay is probably quite busy in general), but I imagine it'll start back up again within a week or two.

Haha between Kanzenshuu, Amino and a Discord server, not to mention just talking, I write and blab waaaaay too much about Dragon Ball. So the passions with which one has to write in order to write the way you do here is definitely not lost on me! I appreciate it a lot and it genuinely made me want to join in. I suppose the hiatus is nice because it will genuinely take a while to get 80-90 episodes in, but I’ve been looking for an excuse to break out my Dragon Boxes and rewatch Z instead of Kai or just skipping around to my favorite parts and this seems perfect! It’s been 5-7 years since I’ve watched Z all the way through in order. I’m thinking I’ll do JP Dub, Kikuchi score since I have only watched it that way out order, albeit I’ve definitely seen every episode in JP but never front to back. Only done in order front to back JP with Dragon Ball. Catch you guys on the flip side!

[jpranevich]

So, I am about 60 episodes behind your rewatch... and I can't even pretend I'll be able to catch up.

But just a question: in episode 21, did they miss or accidentally excise the scene where Gohan gets Piccolo's outfit instead of Kame-style-with-Ma gi? I swear it was made a big deal about and another example of the Piccolo "clothes beam", but I must be misremembering because the scene isn't there. (Maybe I was thinking of a similar scene in the Cell saga?)

Around 14:30, there's a scene with Gohan in the orange gi training with Piccolo, and then when it cuts back to them training at 14:55, he is wearing the Piccolo-style outfit. Very strange.

Any ideas?

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

So, I am about 60 episodes behind your rewatch... and I can't even pretend I'll be able to catch up.

But just a question: in episode 21, did they miss or accidentally excise the scene where Gohan gets Piccolo's outfit instead of Kame-style-with-Ma gi? I swear it was made a big deal about and another example of the Piccolo "clothes beam", but I must be misremembering because the scene isn't there. (Maybe I was thinking of a similar scene in the Cell saga?)

Around 14:30, there's a scene with Gohan in the orange gi training with Piccolo, and then when it cuts back to them training at 14:55, he is wearing the Piccolo-style outfit. Very strange.

Any ideas?

Now that you mention it, Gohan's Piccolo-style outfit does appear out of nowhere in episode 21. In the manga, the specific moment of Gohan changing clothes is never shown either, but it is implied that several months pass while everyone is training, and then Gohan has the different outfit.

The similar scene you're thinking of is indeed from right before the Cell Games, when Gohan specifically asks Piccolo for similar clothes as his.

[jpranevich]

Good news! I've made it to episode 50. So if you manage to not start these re-watches again for another month, I should be able to catch up!

[MrTennek]

Why is this thread still pinned? The rewatch ended months ago.

[jpranevich]

Shh! I am only up to episode 65. I was hoping they might restart it when I get caught up...