Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[mahakaishin1991]

It makes no sense to arbitrarily remove parts of Toriyama's work, because you don't like them. It's canon.

It also makes no sense to retcon Goku as a 3-4yr old upon arriving on Earth, in Saiyan Armor, when Toriyama's original work made it clear that Goku was found as a baby. Toriyama was essentially retconning his own work that didn't need retconning, and in fact just hurts it. People more see Minus as a thought experiment. A way of introducing and exploring the character of Goku's mother without necessarily being part of the official canon.

Really it's just a simple case of Toriyama being forgetful. Something he's admitted to many times.

the whole 'day he was born' thing was Bardock OVA only last i remember

[Zelvin]

And Krillin was the only one without a nose, Giran was the only one who spits glue, Blue was the only one who could freeze you just by looking at you, Uranai Baba was the only one who could see the future, Man-Wolf was the only, well, Man-Wolf, and so on and so on.

Gokuh being a saiyan is a retcon. Literally, is retrocontinuity, going back to add things that were not originally stablished. That doesn't mean that is bad or good, retrocontinuity is a narrative device as valid as any other, but let's not change the meaning of concepts to fit our particular narrative.

But again, Goku being a Saiyan didn't affect much of anything other than adding something new to his character and being used as a narrative device to shift things into a more sci-fi direction.

Also, Baba wasn't the only one that could see the future. Korrin did much the same with the water jugs. And Giran was the only one of his people to actually fight in the Budokai tournaments. Krillin not having a nose was unusual, but that was all and he still resembled the other students of the Orin Temple.

Still, Goku being revealed as a Saiyan didn't affect anything. Goku being retconned into being a toddler drastically changes the story and it would mean that he would've had to have been picked up by Granpa Gohan much later and that there is no hint of Goku's old armor anywhere in the original material. It'd be kind of hard to forget something like that. It's unlikely Gohan would've thrown it out or gotten rid of it, seeing as it was Goku's. The problem is that this brings up far too many inconsistencies in the story when there weren't any before.

[majinwarman]

Are you in Australia. If so, I sympathize(even though I'll probably be up by that time).

I’m in Australia and I’ll sure as hell wake up early to watch this trailer. Been dying to see some actual footage and some story details.

We don't know if the trailer 100% will be uploaded online. Bit risky to get up early?

Well even if the trailer does come out, it will be when I'm out doing things or night time.

[jeffbr92]

It makes no sense to arbitrarily remove parts of Toriyama's work, because you don't like them. It's canon.

Don't push it, we all know that unlike Star Wars there's no canon in this franchise.

Doesn't need to be present in the original manga run to be part of his story. And he certainly doesn't need lectures from fans on what's part of the fictional universe and story that is Dragon Ball, which comes from his mind and imagination, and what isn't. Nobody needs to like what he does. Only to respect it, since he's the creator.

Sure, we can respect, but remember you can't force anyone to read Minus before DB Vol. 1 and since we don't have him or Toei explicit stating what counts for DB continuity, manga purists are not wrong if they want just to consider the original work and nothing else absent from it.

[Bullza]

The color is not a problem. You just don't like it. The 'tights' is also not a problem, since it has been part of Saiyan attire since virtually the beginning.

The purple does not go with the green and black body armour. It's just a random modge of colours put together.

Some other Saiyans have had tights....but they weren't a sissy purple colour on a Saiyan who is the manliest and supposed to be the most intimidating looking of them all.

[Nafno]

And Krillin was the only one without a nose, Giran was the only one who spits glue, Blue was the only one who could freeze you just by looking at you, Uranai Baba was the only one who could see the future, Man-Wolf was the only, well, Man-Wolf, and so on and so on.

Gokuh being a saiyan is a retcon. Literally, is retrocontinuity, going back to add things that were not originally stablished. That doesn't mean that is bad or good, retrocontinuity is a narrative device as valid as any other, but let's not change the meaning of concepts to fit our particular narrative.

But again, Goku being a Saiyan didn't affect much of anything other than adding something new to his character and being used as a narrative device to shift things into a more sci-fi direction.

Also, Baba wasn't the only one that could see the future. Korrin did much the same with the water jugs. And Giran was the only one of his people to actually fight in the Budokai tournaments. Krillin not having a nose was unusual, but that was all and he still resembled the other students of the Orin Temple.

Still, Goku being revealed as a Saiyan didn't affect anything. Goku being retconned into being a toddler drastically changes the story and it would mean that he would've had to have been picked up by Granpa Gohan much later and that there is no hint of Goku's old armor anywhere in the original material. It'd be kind of hard to forget something like that. It's unlikely Gohan would've thrown it out or gotten rid of it, seeing as it was Goku's. The problem is that this brings up far too many inconsistencies in the story when there weren't any before.

I didn't say that Gokuh being a saiyan affects much or less, that is a different debate (I would say it affects A LOT). What I said is that it was retcon. and there is nothing inherently bad nor good about it. Saying retcon is bad is like saying that character development is bad, or plot twists, or analogies, or any other literary or narrative device.

The water jugs were not in the manga. But nevertheless, I used those examples as I could have used many others. Lunch, Ten Shin Han, Chaoz... There are several Dragon Ball characters with unique traits. My point is that, regardless of them having unique traits, revealing now that they are aliens would be a retcon. Bad? Good? That would be something up to debate and personal preferences.

[Jackal puFF]

Broly looks considerably better on Toriyama's design sheets without the saiyan armor. I really like Paragus's look this time around.

Makes me wonder how he and Paragus fit in with Frieza. I'm assuming they been working with him. Lol maybe Frieza literally just found them working for him when he returned and never realized they were saiyan.

[RedHeat]

The color is not a problem. You just don't like it. The 'tights' is also not a problem, since it has been part of Saiyan attire since virtually the beginning.

The purple does not go with the green and black body armour. It's just a random modge of colours put together.

Some other Saiyans have had tights....but they weren't a sissy purple colour on a Saiyan who is the manliest and supposed to be the most intimidating looking of them all.

Purple and green are complimentary colors lol.

[ShaggyBlanco]

[spoiler]https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1019994083115261952
Welp, Legendary Super Saiyan is now a thing in the manga, Broly will probably be the same[/spoiler]

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

The purple does not go with the green and black body armour. It's just a random modge of colours put together.

Some other Saiyans have had tights....but they weren't a sissy purple colour on a Saiyan who is the manliest and supposed to be the most intimidating looking of them all.

(Light) Green does go with purple, both are on the oposite end of the color wheel, meaning that by color theory, they are complementary.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

[BlueBasilisk]

The characters didn't identify the form as the "Legendary Super Saiyan" when Kale used it so there's no reason to suddenly backpedal and have them recognize it as that now that Broly is using it.

Why do they need to draw the parallel with Kale? If necessary, just say it is not the same thing, something related to it, or whatever but not Broly's form.

Also the anime exploited the "Legendary" concept even aside of the normal SSJ. Broly's form was very obviously inspired by Vegeta's speech in the anime Namek saga (and possibly the Ultra Saiyajin).

Why wouldn't they draw parallels to Kale when the two forms are identical visually? If they wanted similar but different they could have given Full Power Broly golden hair. He had it when he powered up at the end of movie 8, all the time in movie 10, his clone had it in movie 11, and he had it on his model sheet. Or give Kale gold hair and keep his green since it's so strongly associated with him. That was a point I raised when Kale was first previewed in the US arc teaser, that they might not be exactly the same because Broly's LSS had gold hair when fully powered up but Kale's was lime green. But then they had Kale run through Broly's Greatest Hits in 93 and 10 and that idea went right out the window.

Hell, it looks like Toriyama even gave Broly a darker tan skin tone so he shares more similarities with Kale now than he did before! What would be the point of making them look the same but claiming they're different except to placate whatever contingent of Broly fans was upset about Kale? Even if they don't call the form "Legendary Super Saiyan," it still acts and functions in a nearly identical fashion.

[PFM18]

I'm disappointed that Broly once again will be controlled. I was hoping he wouldn't have that issue, that could lead to brainless Broly. Hopefully it stops there and please no Bardock or any more "returns" unless strictly necessary.

I don't think I commented on the designs yet. I really like them so far. Broly with Saiyan armor looks pretty nice and I like that his bulk isn't as exaggerated.

The fact that he is controlled by Paragus again and he has the huge scar seemingly from King Vegeta makes me nervous that it is going to be too much like Movie 8 without enough changes.

[emperior]

Do you guys understand that Broly’s “Full Power” form won’t probably be how the form is called in the movie? They may still want to keep the name of the form a mystery. The latest manga chapter also has U6 Saiyans calling Kale’s demonic state “legendary” so I think the form will still be connected to a legend.

[Luso Saiyan]

Sure, we can respect, but remember you can't force anyone to read Minus before DB Vol. 1 and since we don't have him or Toei explicit stating what counts for DB continuity, manga purists are not wrong if they want just to consider the original work and nothing else absent from it.

Nobody can force you to read anything and you don't need explicit statements from anyone regarding continuity to read something. That doesn't change the fact that DB Minus is a prequel chapter to Dragon Ball set in the same universe/story/continuity and from the original author, as he intended it to be.

[alakazam^]

Do you guys understand that Broly’s “Full Power” form won’t probably be how the form is called in the movie? They may still want to keep the name of the form a mystery. The latest manga chapter also has U6 Saiyans calling Kale’s demonic state “legendary” so I think the form will still be connected to a legend.

Keep in mind that both the chapter and the movie talks about a legendary Saiyajin, not the transformation itself.

he has the huge scar seemingly from King Vegeta

We don't know where or when he got it, don't make stuff up.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Do you guys understand that Broly’s “Full Power” form won’t probably be how the form is called in the movie? They may still want to keep the name of the form a mystery. The latest manga chapter also has U6 Saiyans calling Kale’s demonic state “legendary” so I think the form will still be connected to a legend.

Frankly it’d be strange if they didn’t at least acknowledge they’d encountered a similar power once before. Even if Kale herself doesn’t make an appearance.

[Nafno]

So is any media covering the panel live? A streaming would be ideal, but I would be okay with a twitter updated live or something like that.

[alakazam^]

So is any media covering the panel live? A streaming would be ideal, but I would be okay with a twitter updated live or something like that.

IGN will stream it, supposedly.

[PFM18]

We don't know where or when he got it, don't make stuff up.

Do you know what "seemingly" means?

[Miracles]

Broly's LSSJ is called Full Power
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Again?? Toei comes up with yet another lazy, unoriginal and downright LAZY name (yes i said it again, because that’s literally what it is)

So far in Super we’ve had:

Super Saiyan Rage
Super Saiyan Berserk

And now Super Saiyan Full Power??! Wtf. It seems they’re not even trying anymore to even put in the slightest effort into creating a decent enough name. Why not just follow the old movies and simply call it Legendary Super Saiyan? Since that’s what it is, and fans know it as? It’s so much easier and a far better, cooler and more appropriate name for the form.

That's Dragonball. Particularly the creator himself being simple and to the point. DB excels in flash and fight scenes more than anything else.