What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by superfan2024 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:25 am

Ya know, after second thought, i'm starting not to like the manga anymore. It's starting to feel like a joke at this point. Anime is better for me as of the latest chapter. Unfortunately both iterations aren't impressing me too much. There's always somethiny in both iterations that just makes me facepalm. Sometimes I wish Toriyama was still drawinf and writing the manga.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by DestructoDisc » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:13 am

The anime did everything better. Characters, fights, erasure scenes, pacing, everything. Yes i would rather take a slow tournament over this rushed mess. The anime actually made me feel something about these characters, but the manga doesn't make me feel anything about any of them. Piccolo, 18, Krillin and Tien were completely pointless and did absolutely nothing just make us wonder why the heck weren't Goten and Trunks in the tournament instead of the latter 2.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:19 am

superfan2024 wrote:Sometimes I wish Toriyama was still drawinf and writing the manga.
Toriyama would not have made a tournament like this, if he was still drawing, that's for sure.

As I said in my first post, this just doesn't fit a manga format, especially, if he, as I suspect, has to be done with it around the time the movie comes out. That's why I can't be too hard on Toyotaro, it's a pity if anything, but at least there is the anime and the best medium for Dragon Ball is just that anyways, so it's mostly good.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Saturnine » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:50 am

Cetra wrote:I don't like it at all when compared to the anime. And this disgrace of Kale not just getting hit but even almost ringed out by some NPC Pride Trooper just so Caulifla has to fuse with an unconscious Kale, which is even worse for me is the cherry on top of all that. This tournament does it not for me at all and just because some people get more of a Battle Royal feeling from the manga version because of the way it is composed I cannot really find anything that makes the tradeoff worth for me.
[spoiler]Tupper solos 4 universes no-diff, deal with it bro! #tupperthegoat[/spoiler]

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Exline » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:53 am

dbgtFO wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:Sometimes I wish Toriyama was still drawinf and writing the manga.
Toriyama would not have made a tournament like this, if he was still drawing, that's for sure.

As I said in my first post, this just doesn't fit a manga format, especially, if he, as I suspect, has to be done with it around the time the movie comes out. That's why I can't be too hard on Toyotaro, it's a pity if anything, but at least there is the anime and the best medium for Dragon Ball is just that anyways, so it's mostly good.
Bro, anyone of us could probably do a tournament of power better than Toyotaro. It really isn't that hard when you put actual effort into keeping track of all the characters.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:08 am

Exline wrote:Bro, anyone of us could probably do a tournament of power better than Toyotaro. It really isn't that hard when you put actual effort into keeping track of all the characters.
I mean, that's easy for you to say, but how would one go about finding out, if that's true or not?
If things are as I suspect, then you would be operating within a very limited amount of chapters to cover this entire tournament, which means no matter what, some events have to be extremely reduced in page count.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Omniboy » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:08 am

Exline wrote:
Bro, anyone of us could probably do a tournament of power better than Toyotaro. It really isn't that hard when you put actual effort into keeping track of all the characters.
Not to repeat dbgtFO what said, but he is completely correct. It's easy to look back at someone's work and then say "Well I could do better than that" by looking at something you don't like, and replacing it with something you do like. But without the groundwork of the author's work, and us being put in the same shoes as he/she, we would likely struggle with whatever ambitious ideas we have. I know because I am also guilty of this mindset from time to time.

Note that this isn't a stance against criticizing said author, as much as it is just saying that this isn't as easy we would like it to be, especially with this dumb idea of a tournament that should have not been so ambitious.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:37 am

dbgtFO wrote: If things are as I suspect, then you would be operating within a very limited amount of chapters to cover this entire tournament, which means no matter what, some events have to be extremely reduced in page count.
Keep Kale's rampage but reduce it to 1 Universe (U11 Pride Troopers + maybe the U2 guys) while giving some eliminitations to Anilaza (U3) and Ganos (U4) in the same chapter.

It would be more satisfying to see other universes duking it out too while Kale does her own thing elsewhere, instead of spreading her rampage to literally everyone but Roshi who somehow avoided her.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by precita » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:44 am

LOL, 90% of the fighters are useless in the manga. Half our main cast from U7 does absolutely nothing, the anime at least managed to give all the main characters some moments of glory (besides maybe Tien), and all those other great teamwork episodes or character development scenes are gone.

Plus all the other universes are pointless. Nobody does anything. Hell Roshi has done nothing in the manga yet...wtf

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by The gr » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:50 am

Xeogran wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: If things are as I suspect, then you would be operating within a very limited amount of chapters to cover this entire tournament, which means no matter what, some events have to be extremely reduced in page count.
Keep Kale's rampage but reduce it to 1 Universe (U11 Pride Troopers + maybe the U2 guys) while giving some eliminitations to Anilaza (U3) and Ganos (U4) in the same chapter.

It would be more satisfying to see other universes duking it out too while Kale does her own thing elsewhere, instead of spreading her rampage to literally everyone but Roshi who somehow avoided her.
Exactly this,is not hard to balance these character, instead Toyo just rushed this for a movie tie in that will be just as bad since it won't have a decent ending like F.
    I'm preferring the Anime, at least there they gave the weaker universe to shine, he did so well with Gamisara yet he couldn't bother with a decent send off of U4 :roll: wouldn't be better to have U7 be the one to defeat U4.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by prince212 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:26 pm

    Well anime was mostly goku vs all the fighters wanting in line for him .
    Manga gave us battles where goku is not in the focus . I like that goku is not involved in keflas fight .
    Kale eliminating over 20 that fast is not a biggie for me , there’s no time to lose and it’s normal that mangas take about 15 fighters out of 80 , being the rest just second actors
    It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Saturnine » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:53 pm

    Well frankly, I used to admire the manga for being so brief and concise and focused in its storytelling approach (single author and all), but these latest chapters are filled with inconsistencies. Geekdom101 noticed that on the one hand Kale is too far gone to discern her teammates from her enemies, but on the other hand she kills no one. Pretty weak, isn't it? In the anime at least she actually wanted to kill Goku, though she wasn't able to. And I've gotta give the anime an edge for fleshing out Saonel and Pirina more - in the manga they were totally off-paneled. Sometimes I almost think Toyotaro does this on purpose, because he thinks the average fan will still think the things fleshed out in the anime still apply to the manga, but go without saying. Well too bad, these are meant to be entirely separate continuities as far as I know.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:12 pm

    I personally don't think the TOP-arc in the manga is that bad. It's quite entertaining. The anime did raise the bar very high because it was so epic.
    That doesn't mean the manga is trash, it's just not on the level the anime handled things.

    It's maybe difficult to make a good anime adaptation of a popular manga. But i could be even more difficult to make an good manga adaptation of a story where the anime came first. The anime always has the benefits of the animation that gives a more epic impression, if done right. TOP is all about animation and the fighting, even more than other arc, it's very difficult to top that in the manga. Let's give Toyotara the benefits of the doubt, he has made very good versions of the story with FT and U6 arcs, maybe this arc, along with the time pressure, lends itself a little less for manga and more for anime.
    Last edited by Mister_Popo on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:18 pm

    I think I've officially soured on the Toyotaro's take on the Tournament Of Power following the events of Chapter 38.

    There's just nothing compelling that's happening. Or more specifically, Toyotaro hasn't done enough the flesh out the characters that needed that bit more of characterisation, to make their actions in the plot carry more emotional weight. The erasures of the universes have been poorly handled, not a single fight has really been anything memorable and several of the new characters don't feel appropriately developed.

    There's barely been anything to really get invested into with Toyotaro's take on the Tournament Of Power, and as a result, I don't care about what happens next to anyone. And that is the most damning situation to be in with any kind of story.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Zen Yabuki » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:57 pm

    prince212 wrote:Well anime was mostly goku vs all the fighters wanting in line for him .
    Manga gave us battles where goku is not in the focus . I like that goku is not involved in keflas fight .
    Kale eliminating over 20 that fast is not a biggie for me , there’s no time to lose and it’s normal that mangas take about 15 fighters out of 80 , being the rest just second actors
    You’re exaggerating. Not sure why you’re stating this like there weren’t plenty of fights not featuring Goku in the anime

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:11 pm

    sintzu wrote:
    Bergamo wrote:I have to disagree. Kale in this chapter gave me old Broly vibes and made me actually invested in the character.
    I could be remembering this wrong but didn't she result in 3-4 universes getting wiped out ? I get trying to make her look strong but that was a bit overkill.
    Universe 7 resulted in 7 universal eliminations in the anime version. It's refreshing to see a different universe actually get an elimination.
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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Exline » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:43 pm

    Omniboy wrote:
    Exline wrote:
    Bro, anyone of us could probably do a tournament of power better than Toyotaro. It really isn't that hard when you put actual effort into keeping track of all the characters.
    Not to repeat dbgtFO what said, but he is completely correct. It's easy to look back at someone's work and then say "Well I could do better than that" by looking at something you don't like, and replacing it with something you do like. But without the groundwork of the author's work, and us being put in the same shoes as he/she, we would likely struggle with whatever ambitious ideas we have. I know because I am also guilty of this mindset from time to time.

    Note that this isn't a stance against criticizing said author, as much as it is just saying that this isn't as easy we would like it to be, especially with this dumb idea of a tournament that should have not been so ambitious.
    My first statement was a bit exaggerated. However I still believe dealing with a battle royale is honestly not that difficult.

    Toyotaro is just an amateur with potential to do better, but the way he handles this arc is concerning after all the many great things he had done prior to Chapter 34. He just doesn't seem dedicated at all to this arc. The main reason why most having been enjoying this arc is due to his terrible storyboarding and amateurish writing. This was not present in the previous arcs imo, however it;s become a constant problem ever since this tournament started. Everything feels incredibly rushed (please people don't deny it, 20+ eliminated in one chapter + Off-screen eliminations). The majority of eliminations throughout this tournament were so lackluster and had no entertainment factor whatsoever. It really feels like we're reading shitty fanfiction at this point.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Bergamo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:51 pm

    Exline wrote:
    Omniboy wrote:
    Exline wrote:
    Bro, anyone of us could probably do a tournament of power better than Toyotaro. It really isn't that hard when you put actual effort into keeping track of all the characters.
    Not to repeat dbgtFO what said, but he is completely correct. It's easy to look back at someone's work and then say "Well I could do better than that" by looking at something you don't like, and replacing it with something you do like. But without the groundwork of the author's work, and us being put in the same shoes as he/she, we would likely struggle with whatever ambitious ideas we have. I know because I am also guilty of this mindset from time to time.

    Note that this isn't a stance against criticizing said author, as much as it is just saying that this isn't as easy we would like it to be, especially with this dumb idea of a tournament that should have not been so ambitious.
    My first statement was a bit exaggerated. However I still believe dealing with a battle royale is honestly not that difficult.

    Toyotaro is just an amateur with potential to do better, but the way he handles this arc is concerning after all the many great things he had done prior to Chapter 34. He just doesn't seem dedicated at all to this arc. The main reason why most having been enjoying this arc is due to his terrible storyboarding and amateurish writing. This was not present in the previous arcs imo, however it;s become a constant problem ever since this tournament started. Everything feels incredibly rushed (please people don't deny it, 20+ eliminated in one chapter + Off-screen eliminations). The majority of eliminations throughout this tournament were so lackluster and had no entertainment factor whatsoever. It really feels like we're reading shitty fanfiction at this point.
    The good ol' fanfiction "argument." I thought it was interesting how there were 4 members of universe 4 left, one of them was eliminated in Chapter 36, one of them could be seen flying off the stage during Kale's shockwave, and the last two were shown being dropped off by Kale. Toyotaro has been doing a good job at keeping track of characters, and getting dropped by Kale is more interesting than anything Shantza or the Tuffle(who is just there because he's a tuffle) could do. It's not that Toyo isn't dedicated to this arc, it's that he'd rather show Kale than fodder #68.
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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:50 am

    Chapter 38 handled the eliminations horribly, unless you're a hardcore Kale/Power Levels fan. Anilaza especially felt like the manga was making fun of the anime. It was horrible for me.

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    Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

    Post by KeKeKe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:12 pm

    KeKeKe wrote:I like both versions and each one has its highs and lows, but the best one for me is the anime version because there were many fighters who got some time to shine in the Tournament of Power, so we got to see more of them in action, while in the manga version most of them (with a few exceptions) were eliminated either offscreen or rather quickly without having the opportunity to properly (if at all) show their power.

    I'm quite disappointed that warriors like Jimeze, Narirama, Caway, Majora, Jilcol, Murichim, Gamisaras, Damon and Dercori were eliminated quite quickly. :( At least Ribrianne was defeated much earlier than in the anime and that is a plus for me! :lol:

    Maybe I'm dreaming a lot and having my expectations too high, but I'm still hoping that at least Maji Kayo, Ganos, Obuni, Nigrisshi and Shosa will have a more significant role in the tournament during the next chapters, but I have a bad feeling about that...
    And now, with the new chapter that was recently published, my hopes and dreams were completely shattered. I admit I was still hoping that something could save the manga version of the Tournament of Power for me (and by "save" I mean making some of the fighters from Universes 2, 3, 4 and 10 actually do something relevant and show their power and special abilities for at least a panel or two), but deep down I knew I was about to be disappointed. They could, at the very least, have explained that the warriors who were eliminated offscreen were defeated by Damon and/or Gamisaras' ploy, but not even that was stated...

    No avian transformation for Ganos, no malleable body for Maji Kayo, no Kamikaze Fireballs-like transformation for Zirloin, Rabanra and Zarbuto, no illusionism for Shantza, no feints for Obuni, no Koichiarator at all and not even a decent show for Anilaza! I understand that it would be complicated to adapt all that to the manga, but at least two or three of those aspects/techniques could have been (briefly) shown. Just a bit less focus on Kale and a bit more on the other fighters would have made the manga version of the tournament much more pleasing to me...
    sintzu wrote:Toyotaro really dropped the ball with that as so many characters were wasted and that's not counting what he wasted before. I understand not being able to do things like the anime as it'd take too long but he shouldn't have went this far.
    PFM18 wrote:Everything about it was better in the anime IMO. I don't like how more characters are even more useless than they were in the anime. The ridiculous Kale crap. (...) Well actually I think the manga handled Ribrianne way better. I think the intention of both was that her power varied depending on her confidence in her beauty/love. As in, the manga did a better job of portraying that her power depended on her emotions. Oh, and the manga got rid of her sooner so that was nice. (...)
    Xeogran wrote:The manga gave us no reason why Quitela took someone like Shantza or Ganos into his team. Heck even Dercori did nothing besides throwing some punches.

    In the anime they all served a purpose. Ganos had a transformation and got a memorable fight with Roshi. Shantza was shown to make illusions of erased fighters to trap his opponents.

    Now in the manga, did U4 have no leader at all? Why did Toyotaro made Quitela the 2nd strongest GoD to Beerus, if this meant nothing for their ToP rivalry?

    Disappointment.
    Monna wrote:The manga version of this arc is horrible. Pretty much 95% of the fighters feel completely pointless. This isn't a battle royal... this is a nightmare.
    emperior wrote:The manga version is just incredibly rushed and takes away the very premise of the Tournament, which was requested by Goku to Zeno (or rather, reminded of) just so he could fight warriors from all the universes. Which he actually did in the anime, unlike in the manga where he just fights the Pride Troopers and literally exchanges two punches with Kale.
    The manga feels chaotic, sure, but at the expense of making it feel like only 4 minutes at best have passed since the beginning of the tournament, and U6 alone eliminated more than half of the fighters in the arena. It is just horrible. It’s like Toyotaro is making it bad on purpose. What was even the point in making an 80 men tournament if you only want to use Hit, U6 Saiyans, Ribrianne and some of the Pride Troopers from the other universes? I didn’t expect Toyotaro to be able to make as many characters from the other universes as the anime interesting, but I was still expecting something.
    While under Toriyama’s pen I am sure the pacing would be in the middle between the manga and the anime, I am sure the storytelling would have been more similar to the anime’s, which had gags and explored more of the personality of the fighters, in a similar way to what Toriyama always did in his manga, where even the minor characters had something going on for them (remember all the characters appearing in the tournaments, King Piccolo’s minions, Cui, Pui Pui, Yakon...).

    I still expect Toyotaro to at least deliver a nice last fight against Jiren, but the whole manga ToP arc has already been ruined.

    It is also funny how in the trailer for the movie, Goku mentions he is fired up because he saw how many awesome fighters there are in the other universes and, while the same sentence can still work in the manga, it is nowhere near as effective as it is in the anime, where Goku actually fought lots of fighters in a big, important tournament where writers actually took their time to showcase as much as possible from each universe, making us care for all of them. Which is also why the ending of the arc, episode 131, is so damn effective. Because we as viewers grew fond of the universes, and when they were restored and shown alive and happy, those were powerful scenes.

    In conclusion, the anime version of the Tournament of Power makes it feel like a super big and important event, which it actually is considering the stakes and the fact it is the first multiversal tournament ever held. The same can’t be said for the manga, I’m sorry. And with the latest chapter, only U6, U7 and U11 are left alive so I can say this with certainty, even if the arc isn’t over there.
    I may argue that the tournament ended up like that in the manga because Toyotaro was forced to wrap it up before December so that he can focus on the Broly story, to also hype up the movie. Which is further confirmation of how the manga is just a promotional tool for the main Dragon Ball Super story, which is the animated one.
    That’s a shame because while I am not a big fan of Toyotaro’s manga, I liked how he actually took his time to tell the Future Trunks arc in his own pace, and I expected his ToP rendition to be much longer but we now know it’s not the case.
    Nickolaidas wrote:Chapter 38 handled the eliminations horribly, unless you're a hardcore Kale/Power Levels fan. Anilaza especially felt like the manga was making fun of the anime. It was horrible for me.
    I couldn't agree more with all these opinions, which reflect my own point of view regarding what Toyotaro is doing with this tournament...

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