Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Vados not mentioning the combination of the raw power from fusion

That was my whole point. Your point was that she hinted at it when she clearly didn't.

Not all Potara fusions are equal and some of them can even potentially make its users weaker. Goku said this word-for-word in the original manga. You're attributing a trait to the technique that isn't always applicable.

Not really, I was just pointing out how thinking Kale alone being stronger than Kefla cause Vados didn't mention the obvious power boost from Patorra is ludicrous.

[Miracles]

That's a fair point, but, if I'm not mistaken (I'm honestly unsure on this one), given that we see Gohan power up to his Ultimate state in later stories (Battle of Gods, Tournament of Power), his power in base, SSJ1, and SSJ2 should be roughly equal to Goku's, which would likely provide a similar boost to Vegetto. I'm not sure what this would mean for his Ultimate state, however, regarding whether Kuhan would be able to use it.

I always interpreted the Elder's use of the word 'rivals' to mean rivals in power as opposed to rivals in nature. If that's indeed the case, Goku and Vegeta equaling each other in the same forms (base, SSJ1, and SSJ2) would make them perfect rivals in power, which would provide for a maximum boost via Potara merging.

If my interpretation of what 'rivals' means is correct, Kale and Caulifla might still receive a boost of unknown magnitude, but certainly not to the extent that Goku and Vegeta received or that Goku and Gohan would receive (assuming Gohan indeed still has base, SSJ1, and SSJ2 forms roughly equal to Goku's).

Oh yeah, it was made clear by Elder Kai that the rivalry aspect and being top martial artists in their universes is what made their fusion all the greater. Kale and Caulifla don't have that type of potential to bring out the patorra to that level.

[Black Hawk]

Oh yeah, it was made clear by Elder Kai that the rivalry aspect and being top martial artists in their universes is what made their fusion all the greater. Kale and Caulifla don't have that type of potential to bring out the patorra to that level.

Now, while I believe wholeheartedly that Kafla didn't receive the maximum possible Potara boost the way Vegetto did, I won't deny that it's certainly possible that Kafla became quite a bit stronger than Kale. I just need to see the next chapter supporting such in order to believe it, since Chapter 38 only commented on Kafla's technique being superior to Kale's without mentioning her power.

[Saturnine]

Saying Kale's raw power and Caulifla's battle senses is like saying Goku's lightheartedness and Vegeta's ruthlessness. That doesn't automatically imply Kefla has ONLY as much power as Kale, that's how I feel at least.

[ankokudaishogun]

About Kibito's power: he might just have trained after Z.
And Kibitoshin's power was useless against Buu, meaning it was lower than SS3... which makes sense.

Kale's power is dynamic and she was getting weaker when she fused with Caulifla. Also, both were beaten to various degrees.
yet, Kafla can deal as much damages as earlier Kale as soon as fused, which she can land due Caulifla's greater technique.
Most likely, she'll keep getting stronger but not uncrontrollabily.

[ZombieVito]

Kibito is not stronger that base Gohan. Just close enough for Gohan to have a hard time without Super Saiyan.

[ankokudaishogun]

Kibito is not stronger that base Gohan. Just close enough for Gohan to have a hard time without Super Saiyan.

that back in Z.
He might have trained in the meanwhile.

[ZombieVito]

that back in Z.
He might have trained in the meanwhile.

He fused on Z.

Still it's never been implied he got stronger so meh.

[Bullza]

Physically Gohan could at least lift and swing the Z Sword. Kibito couldn't budge it off the ground.

[dbgtFO]

Physically Gohan could at least lift and swing the Z Sword. Kibito couldn't budge it off the ground.

I always took that as sufficient evidence for Kibito not being anywhere near the Saiyans.
Earlier Gohan was afterall only speculating about Kibito being a tough match and I can't really take his speculation as proof that Kibito's a powerhouse.

[Bergamo]

Physically Gohan could at least lift and swing the Z Sword. Kibito couldn't budge it off the ground.

I always took that as sufficient evidence for Kibito not being anywhere near the Saiyans.
Earlier Gohan was afterall only speculating about Kibito being a tough match and I can't really take his speculation as proof that Kibito's a powerhouse.

I think the Z-sword was supposed to be a gag. It was a sword that only a legendary warrior could lift, but now Gohan and probably every other saiyan can lift the Z-sword with ease. Logically, Shin should be able to lift the sword, so there's no reason he should be surprised.

[MoscoSama]

I feel like the Gohan deflecting Kefla's blast "feat" is being way overblown.

Goku was in base form and Jiren up til now has been heavily suppressed and Kefla even referred to both of them as "trash" which fits her cocky personality and would lend her to underestimating opponents.

I think we will see Gohan and Freeza team up next chapter and execute the same double elim with her that was done with Dyspo in the anime

[dbgtFO]

I feel like the Gohan deflecting Kefla's blast "feat" is being way overblown.

Goku was in base form and Jiren up til now has been heavily suppressed and Kefla even referred to both of them as "trash" which fits her cocky personality and would lend her to underestimating opponents.

It wasn't just Goku and Jiren, the defeated pride troopers were also right there, so yeah. Completely ridiculous to think she was firing a blast with enough power for it to matter against God level fighters. Unlesd we are to believe she wanted to kill everyone and get disqualified.

I think the Z-sword was supposed to be a gag. It was a sword that only a legendary warrior could lift, but now Gohan and probably every other saiyan can lift the Z-sword with ease. Logically, Shin should be able to lift the sword, so there's no reason he should be surprised.

I don't and Shin should indeed be capable of lifting it, so what surprise are you referring to?

[Bergamo]

I feel like the Gohan deflecting Kefla's blast "feat" is being way overblown.

Goku was in base form and Jiren up til now has been heavily suppressed and Kefla even referred to both of them as "trash" which fits her cocky personality and would lend her to underestimating opponents.

It wasn't just Goku and Jiren, the defeated pride troopers were also right there, so yeah. Completely ridiculous to think she was firing a blast with enough power for it to matter against God level fighters. Unlesd we are to believe she wanted to kill everyone and get disqualified.

I think the Z-sword was supposed to be a gag. It was a sword that only a legendary warrior could lift, but now Gohan and probably every other saiyan can lift the Z-sword with ease. Logically, Shin should be able to lift the sword, so there's no reason he should be surprised.

I don't and Shin should indeed be capable of lifting it, so what surprise are you referring to?

Sorry, I remembered the scene wrong. Kibito said that he didn't think Gohan could lift the Z-Sword. This shouldn't make sense, because he saw Gohan use ss2.

[Noah]

I highly doubt Broly will end up being stronger than Jiren, seeing how Goku can't activate UI on his own and Vegeta forgot about his shiny new form.

[Koitsukai]

I really don't see just how potara fusion would make two really strong characters into a weaker one. I can see them making two decent characters slightly stronger and nothing more or making one incredibly stronger, but creating a new character that's weaker and cockier actually doesn't even make sense, they should sue their kaioshin, it's literally a death trap.
But let's say that is the case: just how weaker the Potara made her? enough to let base Gohan deflect that one blast she chose to damage Jiren and Goku? and even weak enough to let Gohan believe he can take her on his own?

If she ends up being weaker then WTF???? why??? and if she ends up being stronger, then how the hell base Gohan didn't lose an arm deflecting her attack? he cannot be not as strong as a SS potara fusion that includes Kale, not in base at least. And if she just threw a lame attack towards Jiren and Goku that even a base saiyan could deal with, then what was the point??? what was the point? that's like throwing a rock at the Terminator.

[Bullza]

I highly doubt Broly will end up being stronger than Jiren, seeing how Goku can't activate UI on his own and Vegeta forgot about his shiny new form.

Yeah but he might be strong enough that he'll push Goku back into Ultra Instinct.

Broly would need to put up a better fight against Ultra Instinct Goku than Jiren did for him to be considered stronger. I don't think that will be the case but I'm sure Broly will easily be the second strongest they've fought.

Even in Base form he's probably stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Black.

[Noah]

Yeah but he might be strong enough that he'll push Goku back into Ultra Instinct.

You people are putting much faith in seeing UI again on this movie, which I think is unlikely seeing there were no designs of it.

Seeing how Goku might not even boost Blue with Kaioken, I could say Broly might end up being stronger than that but not by much and it will probably be defeated in other way than just raw power.

[Bullza]

You people are putting much faith in seeing UI again on this movie, which I think is unlikely seeing there were no designs of it.

If they did that then they'd be giving away how the movie was going to end.

[GodVegetto91]

I highly doubt Broly will end up being stronger than Jiren, seeing how Goku can't activate UI on his own and Vegeta forgot about his shiny new form.

Yeah but he might be strong enough that he'll push Goku back into Ultra Instinct.

Broly would need to put up a better fight against Ultra Instinct Goku than Jiren did for him to be considered stronger. I don't think that will be the case but I'm sure Broly will easily be the second strongest they've fought.

Even in Base form he's probably stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Black.

That’s not neccesary at all. This MUI Goku will be a lot stronger than the version that appeared during the ToP thanks to training. Why don’t people consider all possible options? DB is not as simple as this. Characters train all the time, and thus get stronger.