"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[alakazam^]

Just because Super doesn't take off directly after Z doesn't mean it isn't a continuation. Super is a continuation. The point isn't about absolute continuity, it's about how the DBS anime takes multiple concepts from DBZ anime fillers, and how that makes it obviously a sequel to what the anime side of the franchise has been doing. The DBS anime is obviously a sequel to Kai and the other anime series. You can't deny the obvious reality.

I'm not denying the reality that is Super being a sequel to the manga, as proven by Freeza. You can repeat it's "obvious" all you want but it doesn't make it so, you need to be able to back it up, and you can't.

[Kanassa]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

I kinda hope Goku uses Kaioken and Vegeta uses completed SSB just so the fanbase implodes.

Goku uses SSG Kaioken!

[Zephyr]

I kinda hope Goku uses Kaioken and Vegeta uses completed SSB just so the fanbase implodes.

Goku uses SSG Kaioken!

Don't forget Vegeta using Super Saiyan God Red Evolution.

[1345521]

Dbs manga is SO MUCH BETTER THEN THE ANIME . Another huge success by toyotaro AKIRAS CHOSEN ONE putting toei anime to sham e. now with the movie having ssj god and no sign of kaioken and evolution , hopefully akira is sterring toei to return to its roots in adapting dragon ball manga.

I kind of want them to make movies/specials of the U6, Black, and ToP arcs based off the manga (but with some slight tweeks to enhance them). Kind of like the specials they made redoing arcs of one piece in movie form.

I Agree

[JazzMazz]

Dbs manga is SO MUCH BETTER THEN THE ANIME . Another huge success by toyotaro AKIRAS CHOSEN ONE putting toei anime to sham e. now with the movie having ssj god and no sign of kaioken and evolution , hopefully akira is sterring toei to return to its roots in adapting dragon ball manga.

I kind of want them to make movies/specials of the U6, Black, and ToP arcs based off the manga (but with some slight tweeks to enhance them). Kind of like the specials they made redoing arcs of one piece in movie form.

I Agree

Despite feeling mostly indifferent to the manga, I wouldn't mind seeing it turned into an OVA series in the same vein as the 1993 JoJo's Bizzare Adventure OVA's, or Toei's own Hakaba Kitaro OVA series.

I think the TOP may work better as a series of OVA episodes, than the 30 plus episode monstrousity it ended up being in the anime.

Not to mention, I think the anime staff would do wonders in fixing some of Toyo's panelling and choreography issues that have plagued a lot of his work in the TOP.

[1345521]

I kind of want them to make movies/specials of the U6, Black, and ToP arcs based off the manga (but with some slight tweeks to enhance them). Kind of like the specials they made redoing arcs of one piece in movie form.

I Agree

Despite feeling mostly indifferent to the manga, I wouldn't mind seeing it turned into an OVA series in the same vein as the 1993 JoJo's Bizzare Adventure OVA's, or Toei's own Hakaba Kitaro OVA series.

I think the TOP may work better as a series of OVA episodes, than the 30 plus episode monstrousity it ended up being in the anime.

Not to mention, I think the anime staff would do wonders in fixing some of Toyo's panelling and choreography issues that have plagued a lot of his work in the TOP.

Yes yes, you've been on about that "OVA" series. I honestly don't find a problem with his art, it's way better then any art I've seen from other mangas.

[JazzMazz]

I Agree

Despite feeling mostly indifferent to the manga, I wouldn't mind seeing it turned into an OVA series in the same vein as the 1993 JoJo's Bizzare Adventure OVA's, or Toei's own Hakaba Kitaro OVA series.

I think the TOP may work better as a series of OVA episodes, than the 30 plus episode monstrousity it ended up being in the anime.

Not to mention, I think the anime staff would do wonders in fixing some of Toyo's panelling and choreography issues that have plagued a lot of his work in the TOP.

Yes yes, you've been on about that "OVA" series. I honestly don't find a problem with his art, it's way better then any art I've seen from other mangas.

Not sure what other manga's you've been reading, but from my experience, its pretty sub par.

I think its a testament that a One Piece, arguably Dragon Balls direct shonen competitor, has a weekly manga that consistently has vastly superior layouts and panelling, and hell, even just attention to detail, than anything Toyo's manga has produced.

[Aizamasu]

Despite feeling mostly indifferent to the manga, I wouldn't mind seeing it turned into an OVA series in the same vein as the 1993 JoJo's Bizzare Adventure OVA's, or Toei's own Hakaba Kitaro OVA series.

I think the TOP may work better as a series of OVA episodes, than the 30 plus episode monstrousity it ended up being in the anime.

Not to mention, I think the anime staff would do wonders in fixing some of Toyo's panelling and choreography issues that have plagued a lot of his work in the TOP.

Yes yes, you've been on about that "OVA" series. I honestly don't find a problem with his art, it's way better then any art I've seen from other mangas.

Not sure what other manga's you've been reading, but from my experience, its pretty sub par.

I think its a testament that a One Piece, arguably Dragon Balls direct shonen competitor, has a weekly manga that consistently has vastly superior layouts and panelling, and hell, even just attention to detail, than anything Toyo's manga has produced.

Firstly, One Piece has been going on for over 20 years so I think it's unfair to compare it to DB Super which has only been going on for 2 years. And secondly, it's subjective since I happen to like DB Super manga much more than One Piece and think that DB Super's art is better than One Piece's (and I like One Piece as well). But I also know that a lot more people like One Piece than DB Super so it's subjective.

[JazzMazz]

Yes yes, you've been on about that "OVA" series. I honestly don't find a problem with his art, it's way better then any art I've seen from other mangas.

Not sure what other manga's you've been reading, but from my experience, its pretty sub par.

I think its a testament that a One Piece, arguably Dragon Balls direct shonen competitor, has a weekly manga that consistently has vastly superior layouts and panelling, and hell, even just attention to detail, than anything Toyo's manga has produced.

Firstly, One Piece has been going on for over 20 years so I think it's unfair to compare it to DB Super which has only been going on for 2 years. And secondly, it's subjective since I happen to like DB Super manga much more than One Piece and think that DB Super's art is better than One Piece's (and I like One Piece as well). But I also know that a lot more people like One Piece than DB Super so it's subjective.

I can understand preferring the art style for DBS more, but I think its far harder to qualify that Toyo's efforts on the DBS manga come close to the layouts founds in the One Piece. There is a world of difference between the two in that sense. I'm not saying Toyo's layouts are never good, I'm just saying that in comparison to something like the One Piece manga, they're noticeably less dynamic.
Hell, I think a person could easily argue that Toyo hardly matches up to even Toriyama's prior work on the franchise.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[IM21]

Yes yes, you've been on about that "OVA" series. I honestly don't find a problem with his art, it's way better then any art I've seen from other mangas.

Not sure what other manga's you've been reading, but from my experience, its pretty sub par.

I think its a testament that a One Piece, arguably Dragon Balls direct shonen competitor, has a weekly manga that consistently has vastly superior layouts and panelling, and hell, even just attention to detail, than anything Toyo's manga has produced.[/quote][/quote]

As a fan of one piece since 99 i can't deny its a good series but i would not call the one piece manga that great art wise. Sometimes you can barely see whats happening. Yes the page looks great when its just one big picture but other than that its just ok. The paneling is also not that good tbh. DBS has a problem that Toyo never dedicates a page to a single moment, like Toriyama did especially with transformations. I wouldnt call the art bad cause it is as close to Toriyama as you can get. The paneling will probably never get as good as in dbz manga which has perhaps the best paneling of any action Manga ever but, Toriyama did say he likes Toyotaro's panelling and thats one of the reasons he was chosen for the Super manga.

Id like to see the u6 or something else being made in a spinoff manga. Dragongarowlee could ve the one doing it cause his Yamcha manga was pretty good. They did create the Dragon room so i would expect a spinoff manga to be announced sooner or later.

[JazzMazz]

As a fan of one piece since 99 i can't deny its a good series but i would not call the one piece manga that great art wise. Sometimes you can barely see whats happening. Yes the page looks great when its just one big picture but other than that its just ok. The paneling is also not that good tbh. DBS has a problem that Toyo never dedicates a page to a single moment, like Toriyama did especially with transformations. I wouldnt call the art bad cause it is as close to Toriyama as you can get. The paneling will probably never get as good as in dbz manga which has perhaps the best paneling of any action Manga ever but, Toriyama did say he likes Toyotaro's panelling and thats one of the reasons he was chosen for the Super manga.

Id like to see the u6 or something else being made in a spinoff manga. Dragongarowlee could ve the one doing it cause his Yamcha manga was pretty good. They did create the Dragon room so i would expect a spinoff manga to be announced sooner or later.

Not going to deny that some of Oda's layouts can be extremely busy, however, I think it still shines through for the most part. Despite condensing the manga, Oda's work for fights is usually pretty great, despite the aforementioned problem of being busy at points. Just compare his wealth of work from Katakuri vs Luffy in terms of layouts to any of the fights from the DBS manga. There is a world of difference in the level of impact between the two series'.

Dragongarowlee is great. Would love to have try him out for regular mangaka. I feel, unlike Toyo and Jiji, he easily the most original and dynamic of the bunch, especially when it comes to action scenes.

[Grimlock]

The same wall posters have the Broly movie designs on them. So I guess that means that isn't from Shueisha Japan either?

What does this have to do with anything? Dragon Ball Super's movie was there because that was what was being advertised in the event, they had already revealed the release date for the movie for United States then there wouldn't be no reason not to advertise it.

This isn't IGN or Chris Sabat, this is Shueisha and Bird Studios, who contribute to the creation of Dragon Ball. Edit: 100% proof this is from Shueisha/Bird Studios.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

You are just highlighting credits. If you look at the Dragon Ball Super section, you'll see Toyotaro's name there. They are crediting for the use of images. But if you really want to prove something, please provide something from Japan/a Japanese material.

[Aizamasu]

I think a big reason as to why Toyotaro's paneling isn't as good as it could be is that he has a limited number of pages per month and he has to keep up with a tight pace, which makes him use a lot of smaller panels in a page to fit everything that he wants in a chapter. If he dedicated a whole page to a single panel, he would probably have to take something out from other pages. Most weekly mangakas can choose their own pace (or at least I think they can) so they can decide what happens in each chapter easier and can dedicate a whole page to a single panel or use larger panels in general much easier.

[STH]

The same wall posters have the Broly movie designs on them. So I guess that means that isn't from Shueisha Japan either?

What does this have to do with anything? Dragon Ball Super's movie was there because that was what was being advertised in the event, they had already revealed the release date for the movie for United States then there wouldn't be no reason not to advertise it.

This isn't IGN or Chris Sabat, this is Shueisha and Bird Studios, who contribute to the creation of Dragon Ball. Edit: 100% proof this is from Shueisha/Bird Studios.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

You are just highlighting credits. If you look at the Dragon Ball Super section, you'll see Toyotaro's name there. They are crediting for the use of images. But if you really want to prove something, please provide something from Japan/a Japanese material.

Yeah, I agree with you. Obviously I didn't find a japanese source/material.

[Marlowe89]

This comes directly from Toriyama’s first message about the movie.

Which just re-emphasizes my earlier point about the movie being the next animated story in a series that was also airing on television. Again, nothing about canonicity. We argue over these concepts because of narrative differences, but I'm extremely doubtful that Toriyama of all people was thinking specifically about continuity when he wrote that blurb. He's primarily concerned with the story he alone wants to tell, which is fine.

You can continue to ignore the proof we have so far about the anime being the main product, and therefore the true canon, to follow what was written (and misinterpreted) on a poster at Comic-Con, which we don’t even know who wrote it and who approved it, just because it has Shueisha’s mark.

This is still such a bizarre attempt at shifting goalposts that I'm astounded people even bring it up, let alone apply it to their side of the argument, so let me explain how this works: Shueisha/Bird/Toei material is Shueisha/Bird/Toei material. That's it. It's not on the fans to prove which employees representing these companies were involved in putting it together, because that's an unreasonable demand that doesn't make a modicum of sense.

You had no problem linking to an unofficial news site to back up your argument, so don't suddenly change the rules of the game when the opposing side links to official stuff to back up theirs. The banner states that the manga is the sequel to Toriyama's story, and we know it's talking about the Super manga because it references its serialization in V Jump in the same paragraph while exclusively going over the manga's timeline of DB+DBS.

This debate will finally end on December, thanks to God. I wonder if you guys will continue to come up with excuses even if the movie makes it clear it happens on the same continuity as the anime.

I won't, because none of this shit actually matters that much to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's all the same story. I have no problem with the movie following the anime's continuity IF that is made clear by the events in the film. Likewise, you should have no problem with the idea that the movie would follow Toriyama's plot outlines if it doesn't include, say, transformations that were vital to fighting stronger opponents in the anime. That's just for the sake of having an honest dialogue.

[Bergamo]

The same wall posters have the Broly movie designs on them. So I guess that means that isn't from Shueisha Japan either?

What does this have to do with anything? Dragon Ball Super's movie was there because that was what was being advertised in the event, they had already revealed the release date for the movie for United States then there wouldn't be no reason not to advertise it.

This isn't IGN or Chris Sabat, this is Shueisha and Bird Studios, who contribute to the creation of Dragon Ball. Edit: 100% proof this is from Shueisha/Bird Studios.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

You are just highlighting credits. If you look at the Dragon Ball Super section, you'll see Toyotaro's name there. They are crediting for the use of images. But if you really want to prove something, please provide something from Japan/a Japanese material.

Why would official promo for a tour that takes place in America be in Japanese? Moving the goalpost much. We might as well throw out the new Broly trailer because it premiered in America.

[Grimlock]

Why would official promo for a tour that takes place in America be in Japanese?

That is exactly the point. If it is Shueisha/Toei Animation from Japan that did that wall and translated it, then all we need is something that confirms they are the responsible for it and its content displayed. Because as of now, that mural may be just another piece of material 100% American since it contains a statement about canonicity, which is an American trend.

[Bergamo]

Why would official promo for a tour that takes place in America be in Japanese?

That is exactly the point. If it is Shueisha/Toei Animation from Japan that did that wall and translated it, then all we need is something that confirms they are the responsible for it and its content displayed. Because as of now, that mural may be just another piece of material 100% American since it contains a statement about canonicity, which is an American trend.

It says Shueisha and Bird Studios on the poster. If Toriyama said, "the manga and the anime are canon," then people would say Toriyama's opinion doesn't count, because these arguments aren't based on logic, they are based on emotion.

[Ajay]

Those displays were put together by Viz's Super editor.

[Grimlock]

Alright, there it is a confirmation that wall was made by someone from Western side, not someone directly from Japan.

As expected, because again, no Japanese material ever stated the word "canon", so seeing it here makes me doubt its legitimacy. Since it's just another attempt of Americans to say what is canonical in a work that does not actually belong to them, makes that claim about canonicity from that wall hold no weight whatsoever. Thank you so much, Ajay!