"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

These "themes," don't have to be shoved down our throats.

They're not?

Universes having 2 minute erasure scenes where they explain the core traits of their universe is cheap. Zeno is said to erase things in an instant, not give or take a few minutes.

That doesn't happen?

The DBS manga goes much lighter on the moments by having short scenes like Piccolo hesitating to erase universe 9 and Krillin indirectly saving 18. The manga doesn't sacrifice narrative flow for "emotion," and "moments."

The anime doesn't sacrifice much flow and even if it did, if it's for the sake of putting effort into making the audience give a shit, it's a much more important thing to have.

[Miracles]

The characters? Dynamics? Emotion? You know, the things we have to be invested in to care about the fights?

The emotional standard was set. U7 [the characters the audience is suppose to care about] will be erased if they don't win in a battle royale.

[Pannaliciour]

I again read chapter 35 of the manga, Goku and Hit vs Jiren. I know the anime made it sort of clear but now also the manga.

Beerus suppressed got hit by mssb Vegeta and then he had to be more serious to one shot Vegeta.

Jiren (supressed) played with mssb Goku and Hit at the same time.

Jiren> Beerus

Isn't that a bit premature. Comparing suppressed characters is kind of pointless. We know Jiren is stronger than Belmod in terms of combat skill ALONE, so he may be roughly even with Belmod, who is likely below Beerus. We will see though.

Supressed or not. There is a reason why somebody is supressed or choose not to be supressed!

To me it seems that Beerus had more trouble with Vegeta then Jiren with Hit + Goku. And Toppa is already GoD candidate and he said Jiren is much stronger.

Either way Jiren will eventually go full power + maybe beyond like in the anime. Thet will say eventually that he is stronger then Beerus.

[1345521]

I again read chapter 35 of the manga, Goku and Hit vs Jiren. I know the anime made it sort of clear but now also the manga.

Beerus suppressed got hit by mssb Vegeta and then he had to be more serious to one shot Vegeta.

Jiren (supressed) played with mssb Goku and Hit at the same time.

Jiren> Beerus

Isn't that a bit premature. Comparing suppressed characters is kind of pointless. We know Jiren is stronger than Belmod in terms of combat skill ALONE, so he may be roughly even with Belmod, who is likely below Beerus. We will see though.

Supressed or not. There is a reason why somebody is supressed or choose not to be supressed!

To me it seems that Beerus had more trouble with Vegeta then Jiren with Hit + Goku. And Toppa is already GoD candidate and he said Jiren is much stronger.

Either way Jiren will eventually go full power + maybe beyond like in the anime. Thet will say eventually that he is stronger then Beerus.

I thought so too, I guess I cant DISPROVE THAT. But let's wait and see. In chapter 35, berrus nor whish never admitted sqaut. So that's perfectly justafiable to have your thoughts....nothing has been made clear yet. Toppo is a GoD candiate FOR UNIVERSE 11, berrus made i known to vegeta he can be a candiate to some other universes (defintly universe 11 now) but not this one. So this basically confirms berrus >>>belmod. But I think we can all agree berrus could wreck goku and hit as well. I meanb errus ONE SHOTTED MSSJ blue vegeta. And he didn't even punch him or shoot a blast, just grabbed his face and rammed him straight to the ground and knocked the blue out of him.

In the manga, we see goku and jiren having some back ground scuffles and goku seems to have taken little or any damage. So at best, we can just say idk. My power level would be:
Jiren = Berrus< Vegito blue

[PFM18]

In the manga continuity it cannot be deduced that Jiren>Beerus yet because in this continuity Beerus>Belmod so Whis saying that Jiren>Belmod doesn't automatically mean that he's stronger than Beerus. And there's no implications of it like the 109/110 episodes and the statement that 3rd UI Omen~Beerus. I'm sure it will be made clear later but as of now it is unclear whether Beerus or Jiren are stronger in the manga.

[Bergamo]

These "themes," don't have to be shoved down our throats.

They're not?

Universes having 2 minute erasure scenes where they explain the core traits of their universe is cheap. Zeno is said to erase things in an instant, not give or take a few minutes.

That doesn't happen?

The DBS manga goes much lighter on the moments by having short scenes like Piccolo hesitating to erase universe 9 and Krillin indirectly saving 18. The manga doesn't sacrifice narrative flow for "emotion," and "moments."

The anime doesn't sacrifice much flow and even if it did, if it's for the sake of putting effort into making the audience give a shit, it's a much more important thing to have.

I care about Jiren. I care about Kefla. I am interested in the story. Just because they show more of the other universes, doesn't make them more relevant from a narrative standpoint. Each chapter flows nicely into the next, and I don't feel like the story has gone to a screeching halt as a revolving door of fighters gets eliminated by Goku and friends.

[1345521]

In the manga continuity it cannot be deduced that Jiren>Beerus yet because in this continuity Beerus>Belmod so Whis saying that Jiren>Belmod doesn't automatically mean that he's stronger than Beerus. And there's no implications of it like the 109/110 episodes and the statement that 3rd UI Omen~Beerus. I'm sure it will be made clear later but as of now it is unclear whether Beerus or Jiren are stronger in the manga.

I know right, it's also just amazing how fodder GoD (in sntrength) like belmod is stronger then berrus in the anime. While in the manga. Berrus is nothing short of an absloute BEAST.

[PFM18]

In the manga continuity it cannot be deduced that Jiren>Beerus yet because in this continuity Beerus>Belmod so Whis saying that Jiren>Belmod doesn't automatically mean that he's stronger than Beerus. And there's no implications of it like the 109/110 episodes and the statement that 3rd UI Omen~Beerus. I'm sure it will be made clear later but as of now it is unclear whether Beerus or Jiren are stronger in the manga.

I know right, it's also just amazing how fodder GoD (in sntrength) like belmod is stronger then berrus in the anime. While in the manga. Berrus is nothing short of an absloute BEAST.

Yeah it's blatant fan service and doesn't contribute to the story in any way. And it diminishes the build up of Jiren unlike in the anime.

[alakazam^]

To me it seems that Beerus had more trouble with Vegeta then Jiren with Hit + Goku. And Toppa is already GoD candidate and he said Jiren is much stronger.

Maybe Geran was less supressed than Beers, it's not like you can measure that.

[MoscoSama]

I don't think Jiren will be stronger than Beerus

1. His performance in GoD battle royale puts him at atleast top 2 among GoDs and all we got from belmod was one attack and then him playing "dead".

2. Goku Black described Beerus as most troublesome GoD and considering how lazy and irresponsible Beerus is, i take that as a statement on his power

3. Vegito Blue being more or less than level Beerus is at , that's an absurd level especially since there are some piece of evidence that would point to base vegito > ssb goku in FT arc so Beerus would be like stacking ssb on top of ssb and then powering up final khh which should power him up even more

[HeroR]

The characters? Dynamics? Emotion? You know, the things we have to be invested in to care about the fights?

The emotional standard was set. U7 [the characters the audience is suppose to care about] will be erased if they don't win in a battle royale.

Except the manga fails at even that in the manga. It has done nothing to make me care if U7 is erased. So far, I care as much for U7 in the manga as U3. Complete indifference.

It’s the same feeling Toyo gave me when he erased Future Trunks’ timeline. In the anime, I still get sadden seeing how Trunks and Mai reacted to what happened. In the manga, I honestly don’t care, especially since the Turks and Mai don’t seem to either.

[HeroR]

[
Yes, and the tournaments had those stuff, otherwise, they'd be nothing more than flash without substance. "This fight looks cool, but why should I give a shit?"

Honestly this is how I felt about the TOP as a whole.

That's what I'm thinking. The anime is not really all that different to the manga in that regard.

I can’t really agreed with that since the anime, despite the short time they had, made me care about all the universes except U4. In 118 when U2 and U6 made their last stand, you can’t help but to admire and even root for them. It says a lot when many fans were sadden to see U2 get erased despite how many people disliked Rib.

Dragon Ball became what it was not just because the fights were cool, but because of the emotion Toriyama put into them. Like think of all the emotion that went into Goku vs Freeza or everyone fighting Kid Buu. Even the tourument fights had the emotion of master fighting student to encourage them, Tien finding his true self, and Goku trying to save the world while also winning fairly.

That and imo, the Super manga failed to give us good fights. This entire tournament has been Toyo’s most lackluster work. So the tourument is emotional devoid and has dull fights.

[Bergamo]

Honestly this is how I felt about the TOP as a whole.

That's what I'm thinking. The anime is not really all that different to the manga in that regard.

I can’t really agreed with that since the anime, despite the short time they had, made me care about all the universes except U4. In 118 when U2 and U6 made their last stand, you can’t help but to admire and even root for them. It says a lot when many fans were sadden to see U2 get erased despite how many people disliked Rib.

Dragon Ball became what it was not just because the fights were cool, but because of the emotion Toriyama put into them. Like think of all the emotion that went into Goku vs Freeza or everyone fighting Kid Buu. Even the tourument fights had the emotion of master fighting student to encourage them, Tien finding his true self, and Goku trying to save the world while also winning fairly.

That and imo, the Super manga failed to give us good fights. This entire tournament has been Toyo’s most lackluster work. So the tourument is emotional devoid and has dull fights.

"Short time"? The anime had 36 episodes to do the tournament, yet they still rushed out the ending. Gohan vs The Trio de Dangers had great choreography, and Golden Frieza toying with the u6 saiyans wa pure awesomeness.

Also, neither medium did anything to make us care about universe 7. You're supposed to care about Goku and his friends because you've been reading about him for hundreds of chapters.

[Miracles]

The characters? Dynamics? Emotion? You know, the things we have to be invested in to care about the fights?

The emotional standard was set. U7 [the characters the audience is suppose to care about] will be erased if they don't win in a battle royale.

Except the manga fails at even that in the manga. It has done nothing to make me care if U7 is erased. So far, I care as much for U7 in the manga as U3. Complete indifference.

It’s the same feeling Toyo gave me when he erased Future Trunks’ timeline. In the anime, I still get sadden seeing how Trunks and Mai reacted to what happened. In the manga, I honestly don’t care, especially since the Turks and Mai don’t seem to either.

You are saying that you don't care for characters that you spent all of DB's story coming to know and still feel nothing for them in it's sequel; Super?

[HeroR]

That's what I'm thinking. The anime is not really all that different to the manga in that regard.

I can’t really agreed with that since the anime, despite the short time they had, made me care about all the universes except U4. In 118 when U2 and U6 made their last stand, you can’t help but to admire and even root for them. It says a lot when many fans were sadden to see U2 get erased despite how many people disliked Rib.

Dragon Ball became what it was not just because the fights were cool, but because of the emotion Toriyama put into them. Like think of all the emotion that went into Goku vs Freeza or everyone fighting Kid Buu. Even the tourument fights had the emotion of master fighting student to encourage them, Tien finding his true self, and Goku trying to save the world while also winning fairly.

That and imo, the Super manga failed to give us good fights. This entire tournament has been Toyo’s most lackluster work. So the tourument is emotional devoid and has dull fights.

"Short time"? The anime had 36 episodes to do the tournament, yet they still rushed out the ending. Gohan vs The Trio de Dangers had great choreography, and Golden Frieza toying with the u6 saiyans wa pure awesomeness.

Also, neither medium did anything to make us care about universe 7. You're supposed to care about Goku and his friends because you've been reading about him for hundreds of chapters.

Compared to the epic arcs of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it was relatively short. And those fights you named as awesome I personally found meh. Although, it better than most of Toyo gave us outside the of god royal. Which is better than the entire TOP so far despite it being two chapters.

That’s factually incorrect. We had Gohan training to defend his family and Piccolo telling him that’s the wrong mindset. We had 17 and 18 have a heart-to-heart in the middle of the tourument about why they wanted the Super Dragon Balls. Roshi willing to give his life to ensure U7 won. 18 saving 17 since he was stronger than her and their best chance to survive. Vegeta given the last of his energy to Goku and putting his trust in him. All these moments, whether you think they were well done or not, were built to make us care about U7 beyond ‘we followed them for a long time’. Especially since there are new fans who haven’t read Dragon Ball for decades and wouldn’t have that emotional investment. Even Toriyama got this, which is why we had character moments to the last manga page instead of him going ‘you know these characters’.

[HeroR]

The emotional standard was set. U7 [the characters the audience is suppose to care about] will be erased if they don't win in a battle royale.

Except the manga fails at even that in the manga. It has done nothing to make me care if U7 is erased. So far, I care as much for U7 in the manga as U3. Complete indifference.

It’s the same feeling Toyo gave me when he erased Future Trunks’ timeline. In the anime, I still get sadden seeing how Trunks and Mai reacted to what happened. In the manga, I honestly don’t care, especially since the Turks and Mai don’t seem to either.

You are saying that you don't care for characters that you spent all of DB's story coming to know and still feel nothing for them in it's sequel; Super?

A story needs more than ‘you follow them for a long time’ to make people care. Otherwise you get Designated Hero. So no, I really don’t care about U7 since Toyo just assumes that I should, which is horrible writing.

[Bergamo]

I can’t really agreed with that since the anime, despite the short time they had, made me care about all the universes except U4. In 118 when U2 and U6 made their last stand, you can’t help but to admire and even root for them. It says a lot when many fans were sadden to see U2 get erased despite how many people disliked Rib.

Dragon Ball became what it was not just because the fights were cool, but because of the emotion Toriyama put into them. Like think of all the emotion that went into Goku vs Freeza or everyone fighting Kid Buu. Even the tourument fights had the emotion of master fighting student to encourage them, Tien finding his true self, and Goku trying to save the world while also winning fairly.

That and imo, the Super manga failed to give us good fights. This entire tournament has been Toyo’s most lackluster work. So the tourument is emotional devoid and has dull fights.

"Short time"? The anime had 36 episodes to do the tournament, yet they still rushed out the ending. Gohan vs The Trio de Dangers had great choreography, and Golden Frieza toying with the u6 saiyans wa pure awesomeness.

Also, neither medium did anything to make us care about universe 7. You're supposed to care about Goku and his friends because you've been reading about him for hundreds of chapters.

Compared to the epic arcs of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it was relatively short. And those fights you named as awesome I personally found meh. Although, it better than most of Toyo gave us outside the of god royal. Which is better than the entire TOP so far despite it being two chapters.

That’s factually incorrect. We had Gohan training to defend his family and Piccolo telling him that’s the wrong mindset. We had 17 and 18 have a heart-to-heart in the middle of the tourument about why they wanted the Super Dragon Balls. Roshi willing to give his life to ensure U7 won. 18 saving 17 since he was stronger than her and their best chance to survive. Vegeta given the last of his energy to Goku and putting his trust in him. All these moments, whether you think they were well done or not, were built to make us care about U7 beyond ‘we followed them for a long time’. Especially since there are new fans who haven’t read Dragon Ball for decades and wouldn’t have that emotional investment. Even Toriyama got this, which is why we had character moments to the last manga page instead of him going ‘you know these characters’.

I guess that's fair, but Toriyama eventually stopped stressing the fact that people were dying. The Cell arc ended with, "Btw, everyone is alive again." The real reason I care about the tournament is because I want to see Ultra Instinct. Everything else is secondary.

[Miracles]

Except the manga fails at even that in the manga. It has done nothing to make me care if U7 is erased. So far, I care as much for U7 in the manga as U3. Complete indifference.

It’s the same feeling Toyo gave me when he erased Future Trunks’ timeline. In the anime, I still get sadden seeing how Trunks and Mai reacted to what happened. In the manga, I honestly don’t care, especially since the Turks and Mai don’t seem to either.

You are saying that you don't care for characters that you spent all of DB's story coming to know and still feel nothing for them in it's sequel; Super?

A story needs more than ‘you follow them for a long time’ to make people care. Otherwise you get Designated Hero. So no, I really don’t care about U7 since Toyo just assumes that I should, which is horrible writing.

The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.

[HeroR]

"Short time"? The anime had 36 episodes to do the tournament, yet they still rushed out the ending. Gohan vs The Trio de Dangers had great choreography, and Golden Frieza toying with the u6 saiyans wa pure awesomeness.

Also, neither medium did anything to make us care about universe 7. You're supposed to care about Goku and his friends because you've been reading about him for hundreds of chapters.

Compared to the epic arcs of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it was relatively short. And those fights you named as awesome I personally found meh. Although, it better than most of Toyo gave us outside the of god royal. Which is better than the entire TOP so far despite it being two chapters.

That’s factually incorrect. We had Gohan training to defend his family and Piccolo telling him that’s the wrong mindset. We had 17 and 18 have a heart-to-heart in the middle of the tourument about why they wanted the Super Dragon Balls. Roshi willing to give his life to ensure U7 won. 18 saving 17 since he was stronger than her and their best chance to survive. Vegeta given the last of his energy to Goku and putting his trust in him. All these moments, whether you think they were well done or not, were built to make us care about U7 beyond ‘we followed them for a long time’. Especially since there are new fans who haven’t read Dragon Ball for decades and wouldn’t have that emotional investment. Even Toriyama got this, which is why we had character moments to the last manga page instead of him going ‘you know these characters’.

I guess that's fair, but Toriyama eventually stopped stressing the fact that people were dying. The Cell arc ended with, "Btw, everyone is alive again." The real reason I care about the tournament is because I want to see Ultra Instinct. Everything else is secondary.

Not completely true, since Buu killing people were treated as a big deal with Bulma tearing the cast a new one about wishing Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo back after Buu killed them when they were trapped in Hypobolic Time Chamber.

You are saying that you don't care for characters that you spent all of DB's story coming to know and still feel nothing for them in it's sequel; Super?

A story needs more than ‘you follow them for a long time’ to make people care. Otherwise you get Designated Hero. So no, I really don’t care about U7 since Toyo just assumes that I should, which is horrible writing.

The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.

One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.

[1345521]

These "themes," don't have to be shoved down our throats.

They're not?

Universes having 2 minute erasure scenes where they explain the core traits of their universe is cheap. Zeno is said to erase things in an instant, not give or take a few minutes.

That doesn't happen?

The DBS manga goes much lighter on the moments by having short scenes like Piccolo hesitating to erase universe 9 and Krillin indirectly saving 18. The manga doesn't sacrifice narrative flow for "emotion," and "moments."

The anime doesn't sacrifice much flow and even if it did, if it's for the sake of putting effort into making the audience give a shit, it's a much more important thing to have.

I care about Jiren. I care about Kefla. I am interested in the story. Just because they show more of the other universes, doesn't make them more relevant from a narrative standpoint. Each chapter flows nicely into the next, and I don't feel like the story has gone to a screeching halt as a revolving door of fighters gets eliminated by Goku and friends.

Spoke mostly facts except 34 to 35. Smh... I remember how dissapointed I was in that chapter when it first got realsed. though once I accepted it, its actaully a preety nice chapter.. the art is below aevrage for toyos standard but it had some awesome cut scenes, good fights with nice power scailing and some cool dialouge. It wasnt perfect, but was good.